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  1. #126
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    As a Canadian observing this thread, the 'going back to school' option seem really insane given the way US tuition rates look.
    24į 06į

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    OP is really a WRG alias ? That's too bad if he moves away, Ive met him and I like the guy.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    You didn't play clue much as a kid?
    Of course it's him.
    Moves from family business in NJ(capital intensive), becomes the arbiter of all things local in Big Sky while cursing all his fellow New Jerseyans visiting with the Ikon pass despite possibly only having a Montana drivers license for a year.
    Not dumping on the guy, but if you want to make real connections and people in town know the real person, just sack up and ask. it's how you make connections in the real world.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Hey thanks. Its not your imagination, I did post but I went back to change a spelling error and deleted the whole thing by mistake. I got tied up at work the rest of the day but I'll try and recreate it below.

    I've almost thrown in the towel twice in my 12 years in a ski town. The first was after my first year to go to grad school. I didn't even make it onto campus before turning around and moving back. The second was after I got the inevitable letter that my sweet cheap rental of six years was going on the market and I needed to get my ass out immediately. I was lucky to go that long, this usually happens every six months to a year for most.

    Both times I took a trip home for a week or two to the real world. It helps to go to someplace boring, where the real world is actually being the real world, not someplace new and exciting. It is usually a good perspective that everyone looks at differently, but for me it was/still is fat people and their general apathy for life but a desire for a fat paycheck that turned me off to the real world and had me running back.

    That being said, there are certain inalienable truths of living in a ski town that you need to accept, or you are going to have a tough time.

    1) You will make 50% at best compared to a similar field in a major city. Maybe 75% of what someone would make in some middle America one. It will take you twice as long to reach that pay grade compared to both as well. Professional jobs do exist but take a couple years of making it work before you will stumble into one. It will probably not be in a field you went to school for.

    2) You will be surrounded by people who have way more money than you. This gets very apparent as soon as you, or your cohorts start having children. I am amazed at how many people I know sold their 15 year old Tacos and Subarus and are now buying BMW's and 2.5 million dollar houses now that they have kids. They will do this while the whole time you know they make maybe 25 bucks an hour at best.

    3) People in general are more selfish. Most of their wealth is from Mom and Dad and they are not used to not getting what they want. With a limited amount of resources (significant others, professional careers) the amount of backstabbing and general pettiness/dickishness you will encounter will astound you despite the small town nature. You will see lots of charitable giving as people try and repent.

    4) Entrepreneurship is encouraged in concept but not practice. The amount of good ol boy bullshit and moat building you will encounter will be extreme compared to some real world place where people generally don't care if there is a little competition in comparison. Lots of times, these are "bought" jobs with money from Mom and Dad and are not capable of handling said competition.

    5) Your social circle will turn over at least three times a decade while you get established. Fred is probably spot on that maybe 1% of people will make it, for every one lifelong friend you make you will have 99 ski buddies who stick around for a year or three then leave.

    Now with that all being said. If you give up caring about comparing yourself to others, which is pretty difficult in general but is probably required, you will have an amazing life. Literally none of what I listed above (well maybe except the social circle part) will ever be a problem or a care if you don't give a shit about keeping up with the Joneses. Also, none of the backstabbing pettiness if people don't see you as a threat to those limited resources and are otherwise generally pretty rad.

    For me, I found the right balance about 20 minutes outside of paradise and work in a professional gig that is decent and challenging enough, that took me almost 5 years to stumble into. Out here I can actually own a house with people who don't get help from Mom and Dad as much, and they tend to stick around longer. Its pretty nice. I usually get a little jaded by the end of summer, usually sitting in tourist traffic, then fly home for a week and sit in real traffic and laugh at how good I got it.
    Nailed it. Thanks for re-typing all that up! So yeah, in a nutshell, if you can make it happen, stick it out. I don't know what OP's dealing with, so I can't say for sure what I would suggest, but as for me, if only I had played my cards differently, I'd still be there. Unfortunately for me, I chose the wrong hand, put ALL my chips in, which put a big target on my back, and ultimately got crushed by the machine and had to fold. Doh! Shoulda telecommuted...

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    Find a niche that doesn't cost a lot of money for start up and start filling a need.
    True. That's the key right there. Something that doesn't cost a lot of money to start AND fills a unique niche. That's where I went wrong. My particular business was waaaaaaaaay too expensive. Plus it was self/bank funded. No investors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    I dunno Austin, I have lived in and around Big Sky/Bozeman for coming up on 30 years. I never worried about who I piss off or call out and believe me, I set fire to a lot of bridges. When I was fired from Big Sky in 2001/02 I wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper describing what happened. I had a LOT of people who I had never met approach me if only to tell me their story of getting Boyned and how I was just a member of a not very elite club. Every one of them said the same thing, "don't worry, it will work out". The next year I was helping to build a new ski area right next door and really pissing in Big Sky's cheerios. A large part of the reason I was hired into that situation was because of past history, so ya never know.
    Ah, the good ol' days pre-CrossHarbor. As a fellow bridge burner myself (I just can't keep my mouth shut when I get screwed over), I hear ya. Unfortunately too many have become scared to speak the truth about the "Baron" or work with any outsiders that aren't part of an outfit he doesn't have a piece of. The town changed drastically from when I arrived in 2012. Was weird seeing people change once their companies became 'assimilated.' It truly is like the Borg.

    That all said, it highlights the need for your quote above. Gotta carve out a niche that NOBODY else is doing and that the overlords wouldn't be interested in bothering with either. Sounds like you have a good angle. I know a few good dudes up there who have it figured with NON-real estate/development jobs, and that seems to be the ticket. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. So, I really don't want to sound so negative to OP. The trick is finding out what works before it's too late. That's why he needs our advice. DON'T do what I did, but rather carve out a more workable path. It's not too late. You can do it, OP. Would be great to give the oligarchy the big middle finger like Not Bunion as you make hay without having to gargle the Baron's balls. It can be done. Time to brainstorm, OP!!! Now start a new thread without the alias, sack up like Harry said, and perhaps we can all help you a bit more accurately the best we can. I can sure tell you what NOT to do. Haha.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    There is a big difference between places like Jackson, Vail, Aspen, Bozeman, etc. and places like Glenwood Springs, Gunnison, Ogden, Rifle etc
    This. There are those places with excellent outdoor opportunities that still have real jobs - not resort towns.

    Living in Reno (or SLC, or whatever) isn't living in Vail or Jackson, but it could be a lot worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  6. #131
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    I"m not going to quote it
    but AdironRider
    nailed it with his post, broke it all down perfectly
    thanks

    so many people who up with no direction (I did but I was 19) no plan no nothing and expect the silverplatter to be handed to them along with their local card and guide book of how to be successful and be an all star in a ski town, doesn't work that way sorry, they leave broken hearted financial broke and with a bad taste in their mouth where they spew bullshit about how the place sucks when they are back home

    there are tons of people in a ski town/locale with average boring jobs, sure the pay is not the best when you figure in the cost of living, but you sacrifice different things to have a chairlift fifteen minute walk from your front door, mountain biking trails out your front door, lots of people manage retail stores and make good money, other people run lodging businesses, other people have goverment jobs, some people are firefighters police and others start their own businesses, there is so much opportunity the problem is no one is going to hand it too you no one is going to give you a 100k and tell you start a business, most businesses fail in less than five years btw

    my luck is I got here at a young age, fucked off for ten plus years and then decided to grow up in my early 30's, I consider myself lucky the way it worked out

    smoked so much weed this morning I can't see straight I need money cause I'm broke but I"m the guy driving around town aimlessly left arm hanging out the window dog hanging out the other suns out and I don't have a care in the world part luck part hard work

  7. #132
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    OP made an alias to ask a serious but maybe a bit of an esoteric question.. I don't understand the need to out him?

  8. #133
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    whatwouldrogdo
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  9. #134
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    Sep 2004
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    champlain valley
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    When did you "throw in the towel"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikon_Police View Post
    Thanks. I did "real world" for like 7 years. It's where I got alot of work experience. It's also where I realized I wanted to trade in my big salary for time. Now I am back at the other end of the spectrum though. Too much time and not enough income. I haven't found the middle ground yet. Burning through savings and investments hoping to make real connections that lead to something legitimate. Have a couple possibilities but they all require legit chunks of cash that I don't have.
    Everything is a compromise

    Find a career and job close to where you can deal with living. There are lots of great places that donít have world class skiing - but the skiing is pretty good

    That does not mean whitefish or Jackson or revel stoke


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  10. #135
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    lots of good info in this thread...if you are single and have no dependents, take a chance...worked out for me...but you have to be willing to do the work as well as the play...sometimes you can do both at the same time if you map it out with the right gig....but if the choice is a "job" in the mountains...that's not really owning your time nor the same as doing what you want, when you want....like i said, good info in this thread....even if you pursue your own deal, you have to have some skills and low overhead imo...
    My Company: Made in Colorado SKi Clothing- check it out

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  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by danmelon View Post
    As a Canadian observing this thread, the 'going back to school' option seem really insane given the way US tuition rates look.
    Yeah, itís expensive, but student loans are pretty easy to get. If you get a degree in a field that pays, like computer science, engineering, medicine, etc, you will be earning at a higher rate for the rest of your career, so it still pays off.

    But, even if you canít swing that, getting something like a nursing degree or radiation tech or even just getting a CDL is better than doing minimum wage manual labor.

    On the other hand, the world needs ditch diggers, too.

  12. #137
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    Didn't WRG live somewhere out West previously (and with a different username)?
    Anyway, 30s and no kids is no time to give up. FFS.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  13. #138
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    ^ this may not be about him...imo we should keep this thread on task for offering our opinion of good advice op asked for and not tailor it to who it might be or not...
    My Company: Made in Colorado SKi Clothing- check it out

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  14. #139
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    Maybe OP should just move to Idaho Falls and work for INEEL
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  15. #140
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    Lived there for 5 years working my ass off. This was after 5 years of working my ass off to build a small house and move there. Played a bit and had a great time but it's not an easy place to make a living. We finally "threw in the towel" in 2009 when my salary (and everyone else in the development company) was cut 40%. You'll know when it's time and it won't just be because you're discouraged. It sounds like the reality of living there is just settling in. At least you'll have some good stories to tell your friends and family in the future.

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco View Post
    Lived there for 5 years working my ass off. This was after 5 years of working my ass off to build a small house and move there.
    "Bronco has the ass of Bangkok ladyboy."
    "Yeah, 10 years of living the ski town dream will do that to you."

    OP, have you ever considered a move back to the EC? Specifically, Londonderry VT?
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  17. #142
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    Throwing in the towel/giving up is BS. Itís just a decision to make a change. Donít let other peopleís perception drive your own.

    Iím not saying this is the case, but Iíll add that defining self and happiness by a single pursuit (skiing for instance) is often a recipe for disappointment.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    This. There are those places with excellent outdoor opportunities that still have real jobs - not resort towns.

    Living in Reno (or SLC, or whatever) isn't living in Vail or Jackson, but it could be a lot worse.
    And where you live is pretty damn sweet. I could live there no problem. To the OP's question, I see so much work in my hood in the trades. Our previous neighbor was a young man that is a general contractor. After about 10 years of working in this town, he is doing really well. So ya, it takes an investment of time to do well in many businesses.
    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    That is why I like dogs, more than most people.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Didn't WRG live somewhere out West previously (and with a different username)?
    What alias did he post as about leaving there?

    It's getting really difficult to keep up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Hey thanks. Its not your imagination, I did post but I went back to change a spelling error and deleted the whole thing by mistake. I got tied up at work the rest of the day but I'll try and recreate it below.

    I've almost thrown in the towel twice in my 12 years in a ski town. The first was after my first year to go to grad school. I didn't even make it onto campus before turning around and moving back. The second was after I got the inevitable letter that my sweet cheap rental of six years was going on the market and I needed to get my ass out immediately. I was lucky to go that long, this usually happens every six months to a year for most.

    Both times I took a trip home for a week or two to the real world. It helps to go to someplace boring, where the real world is actually being the real world, not someplace new and exciting. It is usually a good perspective that everyone looks at differently, but for me it was/still is fat people and their general apathy for life but a desire for a fat paycheck that turned me off to the real world and had me running back.

    That being said, there are certain inalienable truths of living in a ski town that you need to accept, or you are going to have a tough time.

    1) You will make 50% at best compared to a similar field in a major city. Maybe 75% of what someone would make in some middle America one. It will take you twice as long to reach that pay grade compared to both as well. Professional jobs do exist but take a couple years of making it work before you will stumble into one. It will probably not be in a field you went to school for.

    2) You will be surrounded by people who have way more money than you. This gets very apparent as soon as you, or your cohorts start having children. I am amazed at how many people I know sold their 15 year old Tacos and Subarus and are now buying BMW's and 2.5 million dollar houses now that they have kids. They will do this while the whole time you know they make maybe 25 bucks an hour at best.

    3) People in general are more selfish. Most of their wealth is from Mom and Dad and they are not used to not getting what they want. With a limited amount of resources (significant others, professional careers) the amount of backstabbing and general pettiness/dickishness you will encounter will astound you despite the small town nature. You will see lots of charitable giving as people try and repent.

    4) Entrepreneurship is encouraged in concept but not practice. The amount of good ol boy bullshit and moat building you will encounter will be extreme compared to some real world place where people generally don't care if there is a little competition in comparison. Lots of times, these are "bought" jobs with money from Mom and Dad and are not capable of handling said competition.

    5) Your social circle will turn over at least three times a decade while you get established. Fred is probably spot on that maybe 1% of people will make it, for every one lifelong friend you make you will have 99 ski buddies who stick around for a year or three then leave.

    Now with that all being said. If you give up caring about comparing yourself to others, which is pretty difficult in general but is probably required, you will have an amazing life. Literally none of what I listed above (well maybe except the social circle part) will ever be a problem or a care if you don't give a shit about keeping up with the Joneses. Also, none of the backstabbing pettiness if people don't see you as a threat to those limited resources and are otherwise generally pretty rad.

    For me, I found the right balance about 20 minutes outside of paradise and work in a professional gig that is decent and challenging enough, that took me almost 5 years to stumble into. Out here I can actually own a house with people who don't get help from Mom and Dad as much, and they tend to stick around longer. Its pretty nice. I usually get a little jaded by the end of summer, usually sitting in tourist traffic, then fly home for a week and sit in real traffic and laugh at how good I got it.
    I stumbled into a dream job, but now it's just the job. We moved 25 minutes away from paradise, and have an awesome community.. we're lucky, I get it.

    You need to take a step back to see everything that adironrider wrote about... which you probably haven't gotten to do yet. If you can't take that step back, you'll be more prone to throw in the towel earlier than later.

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    I’m not saying this is the case, but I’ll add that defining self and happiness by a single pursuit (skiing for instance) is often a recipe for disappointment.
    Yeah, a big one for dreamers in the outdoor world is putting off maturation in favor of a myopic focus on pursuits that might not have a return profile that meets assumptions.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    whatwouldrogdo
    tuck the tail and go home
    .

  23. #148
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    I think in the phase of my "ski town life" where things were really cooking along well these were the key elements:

    1) I lucked into a management job, but that "luck" was also the nature of a GM who knew the culture where I grew up and correctly anticipated...:
    .......1a) I could not, and would not allow my ski shop to be a piece of shit, so I worked from 6 or 7am to 7-10pm 6 or 7 days a week, on salary, because I love skiing and ski gear and tuning and repair and bootfitting and all of it....and, believe it or not, I loved giving that experience to vacationers, and because it was my shop to manage and I was simply not gonna let the work go undone. Period. I worked myself raw at that job, but also it was a job full of love. I loved my employees, I loved that ski area, I loved being a part of the whole thing.

    2) The management job and doing decently with it led to a rep and a network of people, including a spectacular girlfriend and her giant network of people, that led to lots of other things, and the hustles were on. Landscaping for realtors on properties for sale....picking lettuce on an organic farm for fancy restaurants in town....wildland fire with a small contractor....demolition for a private individuals construction project....falling trees for a forestry contractor....flipping pickup trucks and motorcycles for $$$...

    So I say....be there, be good, keep knocking around and meeting people until you stick to something decent....then hustle hustle hustle. It's not undoable

    Or go do "real world" near the mountains and manage your time and schedule and budget and vehicle like a ninja.
    The devil's in the details. Sadly, skiing as a lifestyle, for non-trustfunders, is a harsh grind. I don't know of any scenario where that's not true. So you have to grind it out.

    I just longboarded and walked the dog. There was some awful fucking cunt with a gaggle of little kids taking up the entire path, so I chose to emergency slide instead of blowing past little kids at 30 mph on the skateboard. This took the form of a David Lee Roth knee slide, totally eating the insides of my ankles and wrecking some vans. Then I went and hobbled around with the dog. Touron explosion (!!!) in our favorite beach walking area, so we had to hobble around elsewhere. Poodle gave me disappointment eyes, because he doesn't understand tourons, and why they're on his beach.
    Now I have to go spend the next 8 hours in a bus seat with my sore ankles and wrists, oozing road rash getting infected by disgusting bus germs.

    Grinding. Unless you've got that family money you're gonna be grinding.

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    Grinding. Unless you've got that family money you're gonna be grinding.
    Truth. There's simply no way around that.

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post

    Grinding. Unless you've got that family money you're gonna be grinding.


    seems appropriate
    24į 06į

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