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  1. #151
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    What are your expectations from "connections"? Social connections? People to ride or ski with? Or something to give you a leg up in a career?

    It's important to distinguish between them, but my quick advice is the same: be patient, be generous, always exceed expectations, keep your own expectations low and show appreciation when they are exceeded. No one owes you anything and the connections you're looking to make are the ones where people remember you as someone they want to see/hangout/do business with again.

    Lots of people blame small town culture for their inability to break in, but which is more disingenuous: smiling at everyone--even the guy you don't really trust, or expecting that every smile implies the acceptance of some obligation? No one owes you anything. They can wish you well and still not be ready to bet on you. Earn their trust and they'll keep calling, whether to head out for adventures or for jobs. But don't expect your skiing friends to hook you up with jobs; be happy if it happens and make sure you exceed expectations if it does.

    Be patient and keep your expectations (and overhead) low. Until it's time to throw in the towel, I guess, but I've never thought about that side of it--with low enough overhead it can be pretty easy to survive a few bad days/years.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    "Bronco has the ass of Bangkok ladyboy."
    "Yeah, 10 years of living the ski town dream will do that to you."

    OP, have you ever considered a move back to the EC? Specifically, Londonderry VT?
    Ludlow or Rutland my man


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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    What alias did he post as about leaving there?

    It's getting really difficult to keep up.
    Exactly. Has the OP considered talking to a therapist?


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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    Yeah, a big one for dreamers in the outdoor world is putting off maturation in favor of a myopic focus on pursuits that might not have a return profile that meets assumptions.
    i think a fair bit of that is the return profile has changed a fair bit in the past 20 years; things that were quirky backwater sports/companys/communitys are no longer that and have been integrated into the broader world. As the integration inexorably proceeds the return will continue to change away from what might have been an 00s maxima of local power/prosperity.

    small town culture is when people have lived there for 100 years and don't like people not from around there. which is ... different than whats being discussed here.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by danmelon View Post


    seems appropriate
    Best band name ever.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    What are your expectations from "connections"? Social connections? People to ride or ski with? Or something to give you a leg up in a career?

    It's important to distinguish between them, but my quick advice is the same: be patient, be generous, always exceed expectations, keep your own expectations low and show appreciation when they are exceeded. No one owes you anything and the connections you're looking to make are the ones where people remember you as someone they want to see/hangout/do business with again.

    Lots of people blame small town culture for their inability to break in, but which is more disingenuous: smiling at everyone--even the guy you don't really trust, or expecting that every smile implies the acceptance of some obligation? No one owes you anything. They can wish you well and still not be ready to bet on you. Earn their trust and they'll keep calling, whether to head out for adventures or for jobs. But don't expect your skiing friends to hook you up with jobs; be happy if it happens and make sure you exceed expectations if it does.

    Be patient and keep your expectations (and overhead) low. Until it's time to throw in the towel, I guess, but I've never thought about that side of it--with low enough overhead it can be pretty easy to survive a few bad days/years.
    Here’s what I mean: when my new neighbor asks about firewood I recommend my friend Bob. Bob does a good fair job so my new neighbor knows I know people who can get things done, ergo I can get things done. When Bob hears I’m looking to put a plow on my truck he offers me a great deal on one sitting in his equipment yard. I need a hand welding the plow carriage so I go to my friend Dave. Dave makes me a good deal on the work, he’s doing it after hours in his employer’s shop as a side gig. Later, when my friend Tim needs his Toyota, my old Toyota I sold him el cheapo, worked on and Dave needs some extra money for Christmas time, I hook them both up...Tim gets an honest mechanic and Dave gets an easy job and some extra cash.

    Then I can plow my new neighbor out when it dumps. I ask Dave about mechanical stuff all the time while I’m hanging out fetching tools and holding flashlights for him. Tim hasn’t done shit for me, in fact Tim doesn’t seem to really get how all this works, but that’s no big deal, so we ski and surf and life goes on.

    Maybe that new neighbor is the manager somewhere. Maybe his friend is. Maybe his wife’s girlfriend has a vacancy for a really good evening shift mowing lawns and plowing sidewalks over at the college and neighbor lady knows I keep my house nice and plow the neighborhood well and go to work every day. Maybe not....maybe it’s nothing but a good deed, and that’s fine too. I like getting along.

    Ken knows I have a rotten shift on Wednesdays, so he steered his charter group to Wednesday so I could drive his group instead of working my awful normal shift. I give Ken’s daughter free bus fare and when people are interested in a place to stay nearby, I tell them about Ken’s rental cabins....which are indeed very nice.

    It’s just about being there and being good. Be there, be good. Make friends and take care of each other.
    Last edited by ill-advised strategy; 07-10-2019 at 12:53 PM.

  7. #157
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    Here’s what I mean:
    It’s just about being there and being good. Be there, be good.
    bobs everywhere appreciate this, thank you.
    .

  8. #158
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    Dec 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowing alpy View Post
    tuck the tail and go home
    What alias is he posting under these days?
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  9. #159
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    Feb 2010
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    pretty sure he finally threw in the towel but if he’ following,
    la rog, still haven’t got those tail clips you took off yer skins
    .

  10. #160
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    Jan 2010
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    your vacation
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    What are your expectations from "connections"? Social connections? People to ride or ski with? Or something to give you a leg up in a career?

    It's important to distinguish between them, but my quick advice is the same: be patient, be generous, always exceed expectations, keep your own expectations low and show appreciation when they are exceeded. No one owes you anything and the connections you're looking to make are the ones where people remember you as someone they want to see/hangout/do business with again.

    Lots of people blame small town culture for their inability to break in, but which is more disingenuous: smiling at everyone--even the guy you don't really trust, or expecting that every smile implies the acceptance of some obligation? No one owes you anything. They can wish you well and still not be ready to bet on you. Earn their trust and they'll keep calling, whether to head out for adventures or for jobs. But don't expect your skiing friends to hook you up with jobs; be happy if it happens and make sure you exceed expectations if it does.

    Be patient and keep your expectations (and overhead) low. Until it's time to throw in the towel, I guess, but I've never thought about that side of it--with low enough overhead it can be pretty easy to survive a few bad days/years.
    yeah what he said

    I got endless funny stories about coming of age in a ski town
    the best is this guy I worked with 25 years ago, just another dip shit, we were getting high all the time at work and bob would never get high, he just minded his own business and laughed at us and went along for the ride
    one day bob says I'm quiting and I'm gonna be a "banker" we laughed at bob for being such a straight edge square and getting all serious while were all fucking off
    today bob is one of the biggest players in town, great guy and we laugh about those days now when we run into each other

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    Yeah, a big one for dreamers in the outdoor world is putting off maturation in favor of a myopic focus on pursuits that might not have a return profile that meets assumptions.
    Results vary but what you describe has worked out for me.

  12. #162
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    Just donít flail your arms when you throw the towel.


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  13. #163
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    Ha


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  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    It's just about being there and being good. Be there, be good. Make friends and take care of each other.
    Yup. I glossed over the details a bit, partly because OP might have a different set of expectations or feel he's missing some specific thing, but that pretty well describes the way it goes down if you're doing it right, I think. Seems to be true whether you're helping someone move or performing a professional service.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    "Bronco has the ass of Bangkok ladyboy."
    "Yeah, 10 years of living the ski town dream will do that to you."
    It's still recovering!

  16. #166
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    Apr 2006
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    Adironrider hit the nail on the head. +1000 to everything he said.

    I'll chime in from the sellout side of things- I initially graduated from college and planned on doing some kind of alternative to mainstream career life. I wanted to fight fire, guide backpacking trips (NOLS, etc) or figure out some other way make shit work in the mountains.

    It quickly became apparent that doing so wasn't a going to provide even a halfway decent standard of living. I got sick and couldn't see doctors because of lack of money and no health insurance, I had no means of saving money and I had no leverage to negotiate what I was worth with employers. I also saw friends struggle to get out of the ski world into a career that could support a family.

    I learned from some old time ski bums (some friends, some friend's parents) that there was a time when someone could make shit work doing manual labor or skilled labor in a ski town. One of my college roommate's dad was a carpenter in Aspen in the 70s and was able to buy land next to town and build one room cabin that he turned into a 3 bedroom house over several years. He and his buddies would help each other build houses in their free time.

    Another college friend's dad was able to buy a house in Aspen in the late 70s/ early 80s working as a restaurant manager.

    I know another old school ski bum guy who spent summers growing weed in Hawaii and winters renting a large house in Chamonix in the winter. He'd sublease rooms in the house to make additional money. He's now married with kids and owns a sweet little guest house.

    Yetiman was able to bust his ass hustling in the fire world and ski world and afford to own a house in SLC.

    It seems to me that most of those opportunities are now gone. There is no longer cheap land for next to any ski resort in the western US for a carpenter to buy. The soft drug trade has dried up as weed became legalized, restaurant managers can't afford to buy houses within 100 miles of the ski resort where they work, etc.

    With real estate prices where they are now, it's also no longer possible to afford a house close to skiing by digging fire line in the summer.

    I sold out to pursue a career and now own a house next to mountain biking and trail running in the front range. I-70 sucks, but I'm able to ski 30+ days a year and usually go on 2-3 week long ski trips per year all over the world. My career job, as frustrating as it can be, also offers a decent lifestyle- I've spent the past 5 years traveling around Europe, Asia, Australia and Africa on the company dime.

    It sucks to say it, but there is a deadline for launching most professional careers. It's rare for someone in the "real" world to take a chance hiring someone in their mid-30s for a cush, high paying career with upward mobility that doesn't have experience in whatever industry that is. Those jobs go to promising 20 somethings who have recently graduated, are coming out of internships, etc.

    The longer you hang out on pleasure island living in a ski town the less opportunities there are to launch a career and every year there are less opportunities in ski towns due to stagnant local wages and ever increasing costs. Add in issues with housing shortages due to short term rentals and out-of-towners buying up houses at prices way above what locals can afford and there is an ever shrinking environment for a ski bum to exist.

    Stay on pleasure island for two long and there is a very real threat of waking up in a ski town in your 40s without options for providing for yourself and/or your family and with no options for making shit work back in the real world. When you eventually wash out to some shitty job in a less desirable, more affordable location there will be an endless line of wide eyed kids wanting to take your place who are willing to trade their future for a couple years of "mountain lifestyle".

    Well, either that or you may be able to turn into bunion or fastfred.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    Just don’t flail your arms when you throw the towel.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

    This, if you are tossing the towel, do it with style.
    watch out for snakes

  18. #168
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    Oct 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    Adironrider hit the nail on the head. +1000 to everything he said.

    I'll chime in from the sellout side of things- I initially graduated from college and planned on doing some kind of alternative to mainstream career life. I wanted to fight fire, guide backpacking trips (NOLS, etc) or figure out some other way make shit work in the mountains.

    It quickly became apparent that doing so wasn't a going to provide even a halfway decent standard of living. I got sick and couldn't see doctors because of lack of money and no health insurance, I had no means of saving money and I had no leverage to negotiate what I was worth with employers. I also saw friends struggle to get out of the ski world into a career that could support a family.

    I learned from some old time ski bums (some friends, some friend's parents) that there was a time when someone could make shit work doing manual labor or skilled labor in a ski town. One of my college roommate's dad was a carpenter in Aspen in the 70s and was able to buy land next to town and build one room cabin that he turned into a 3 bedroom house over several years. He and his buddies would help each other build houses in their free time.

    Another college friend's dad was able to buy a house in Aspen in the late 70s/ early 80s working as a restaurant manager.

    I know another old school ski bum guy who spent summers growing weed in Hawaii and winters renting a large house in Chamonix in the winter. He'd sublease rooms in the house to make additional money. He's now married with kids and owns a sweet little guest house.

    Yetiman was able to bust his ass hustling in the fire world and ski world and afford to own a house in SLC.

    It seems to me that most of those opportunities are now gone. There is no longer cheap land for next to any ski resort in the western US for a carpenter to buy. The soft drug trade has dried up as weed became legalized, restaurant managers can't afford to buy houses within 100 miles of the ski resort where they work, etc.

    With real estate prices where they are now, it's also no longer possible to afford a house close to skiing by digging fire line in the summer.

    I sold out to pursue a career and now own a house next to mountain biking and trail running in the front range. I-70 sucks, but I'm able to ski 30+ days a year and usually go on 2-3 week long ski trips per year all over the world. My career job, as frustrating as it can be, also offers a decent lifestyle- I've spent the past 5 years traveling around Europe, Asia, Australia and Africa on the company dime.

    It sucks to say it, but there is a deadline for launching most professional careers. It's rare for someone in the "real" world to take a chance hiring someone in their mid-30s for a cush, high paying career with upward mobility that doesn't have experience in whatever industry that is. Those jobs go to promising 20 somethings who have recently graduated, are coming out of internships, etc.

    The longer you hang out on pleasure island living in a ski town the less opportunities there are to launch a career and every year there are less opportunities in ski towns due to stagnant local wages and ever increasing costs. Add in issues with housing shortages due to short term rentals and out-of-towners buying up houses at prices way above what locals can afford and there is an ever shrinking environment for a ski bum to exist.

    Stay on pleasure island for two long and there is a very real threat of waking up in a ski town in your 40s without options for providing for yourself and/or your family and with no options for making shit work back in the real world. When you eventually wash out to some shitty job in a less desirable, more affordable location there will be an endless line of wide eyed kids wanting to take your place who are willing to trade their future for a couple years of "mountain lifestyle".

    Well, either that or you may be able to turn into bunion or fastfred.
    I have to agree with this. I made the switch from wildlandfire and seasonal work in my early 30's. This was a combination of realizing I wasn't doing what I wanted to do, was not saving enough to retire, had no savings if something bad happened and was wearing my body down.

    Went back to school for 3 years. It's fucking expensive and I will be paying it off for a long while to come.


    It was very difficult to land an entry level job in my field. I made it happen, but was commuting 1.5 hours one way for several years and had to take a tangential route to move into the position I wanted. Current state of the labor market meant I was able to get on track and am making relatively good money with good benefits and security.

    Super glad I made the move now that I have kids.

    Not sure how that all would have worked out in a different labor market.

    My wife is doing what detrusor did. It's crazy hard and all consuming.

  19. #169
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    Oct 2005
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    845
    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    I think in the phase of my "ski town life" where things were really cooking along well these were the key elements:

    1) I lucked into a management job, but that "luck" was also the nature of a GM who knew the culture where I grew up and correctly anticipated...:
    .......1a) I could not, and would not allow my ski shop to be a piece of shit, so I worked from 6 or 7am to 7-10pm 6 or 7 days a week, on salary, because I love skiing and ski gear and tuning and repair and bootfitting and all of it....and, believe it or not, I loved giving that experience to vacationers, and because it was my shop to manage and I was simply not gonna let the work go undone. Period. I worked myself raw at that job, but also it was a job full of love. I loved my employees, I loved that ski area, I loved being a part of the whole thing.

    2) The management job and doing decently with it led to a rep and a network of people, including a spectacular girlfriend and her giant network of people, that led to lots of other things, and the hustles were on. Landscaping for realtors on properties for sale....picking lettuce on an organic farm for fancy restaurants in town....wildland fire with a small contractor....demolition for a private individuals construction project....falling trees for a forestry contractor....flipping pickup trucks and motorcycles for $$$...

    So I say....be there, be good, keep knocking around and meeting people until you stick to something decent....then hustle hustle hustle. It's not undoable

    Or go do "real world" near the mountains and manage your time and schedule and budget and vehicle like a ninja.
    The devil's in the details. Sadly, skiing as a lifestyle, for non-trustfunders, is a harsh grind. I don't know of any scenario where that's not true. So you have to grind it out.

    I just longboarded and walked the dog. There was some awful fucking cunt with a gaggle of little kids taking up the entire path, so I chose to emergency slide instead of blowing past little kids at 30 mph on the skateboard. This took the form of a David Lee Roth knee slide, totally eating the insides of my ankles and wrecking some vans. Then I went and hobbled around with the dog. Touron explosion (!!!) in our favorite beach walking area, so we had to hobble around elsewhere. Poodle gave me disappointment eyes, because he doesn't understand tourons, and why they're on his beach.
    Now I have to go spend the next 8 hours in a bus seat with my sore ankles and wrists, oozing road rash getting infected by disgusting bus germs.

    Grinding. Unless you've got that family money you're gonna be grinding.


    worth preservation. i-as has lived this -- (tj)

  20. #170
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    In a lot of ways this is just like any other sport. For every mlb player there are hundreds if not thousands who played a year or two of A ball, or whatever, and it just didn’t click together.
    If you knock around playing AA until you’re 38 and make no money, good luck transitioning to bus driving....not that it’s not doable, but it’s going to be heartbreaking and painful.
    Jen Hudak is doing some work on this stuff...transitions from being an athlete to the next phase. It’s a hard thing.

  21. #171
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    Dec 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    In a lot of ways this is just like any other sport. For every mlb player there are hundreds if not thousands who played a year or two of A ball, or whatever, and it just didn’t click together.
    If you knock around playing AA until you’re 38 and make no money, good luck transitioning to bus driving....
    Buying a bar in Boston might work better for a washed up baseball player?
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  22. #172
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    Cheers
    .

  23. #173
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    When did you "throw in the towel"?

    This isnít rocket science - get a skill that you can be paid for and start gaining experience and finding a place that is a compromise between career and fun

    The op has no skill set except working hard. Thatís what got my parents by. They are immigrants with a high school education. That shit does not fly anymore

    Again to the OP - no one cares about your family business

    Can you do bookkeeping? Do you know accounting

    Can you set up a network, fix a pc?

    Get some skills and stop fucking whining - I graduated from college at 34 with a business degree and made a career but I donít have this notion that I need to be a rockstar on powder days at world class resorts that I live by

    Wake the fuck up

    Listening to anything trusty Fred says is a bad idea because you donít have a trust fund - deal

    The best advise I can tell you is marry someone that is on the same page as you

    My ex decided we were moving to Vermont and then we ended up divorcing

    My life would be shit ton better if she decided to divorce me in seattle where we put our careers together
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  24. #174
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    Dec 2004
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    11,979
    Stay on pleasure island for two long and there is a very real threat of waking up in a ski town in your 40s without options for providing for yourself and/or your family and with no options for making shit work back in the real world. When you eventually wash out to some shitty job in a less desirable, more affordable location there will be an endless line of wide eyed kids wanting to take your place who are willing to trade their future for a couple years of "mountain lifestyle".

    Well, either that or you may be able to turn into bunion or fastfred.
    Well 1st of all it is Not bunion and 2nd, as I said, results vary. Timing is everything and I feel pretty good about my future, I turn 62 in a few months.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBdude View Post
    The op has no skill set except working hard. [...] That shit does not fly anymore
    Thank dog, I hate that shit.

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