Solar Energy is getting really cheap

[4matic]

Generator is a better choice for emergency power. Battteries only have ten year warranty, have a 90% conversion rate, and OOP is too high. At a 90% conversion rate you don't really save that much trying to avoid high use electric rates.

[XXX-er]

How I was reading this is that the grid is the battery, batteries seem to cost the $$$$$ and fuckup so feeding back into the grid seems like a smart move if you are already hooked up and not into the whole independance thing

backup Genset is probaby the smart move and how much backup do you need ?

you could forgo some things if you are in backup like AC ?

[SumJongGuy]

It’s been on my mind here because our power system is above ground & when we lose power we seem to be the last to get it back

Been mulling diesel generator or solar...& of course how much of the house NEEDS to run when power goes down

We have above ground lines and live in hurricane and ice storm country. Longest we've been down was 10 days after an ice storm. Hurricanes have knocked things down for a couple days here and there. We went with a small 4,000 watt LP generator. Best bang for the buck, $400 and runs all our fridges, fans, etc. We get roughly 12 hours from a 20 pound LP tank and have 5 tanks on hand. Best thing is LP tanks don't go bad. I do rotate them FIFO on the grill so they're never more than a couple years old but still... Keeping enough gasoline on hand for 5 days without having to siphon out of your cars without it going bad every year is quite a hassle by comparison.

Solar panels might happen next, but not until battery prices come down.

[SB]

Gel cells are only good for 5 years tops.

[::: :::]

Also, a third eye to the possibility of an earthquake screwing up our grid. It wouldn’t even take a big one. (Maybe just trying to rationalize a payoff...I dunno, just mulling...)

Solar + battery gets you unlimited power cycles

Diesel needs to be replenished at some point

Re: what to power
Minimum would be food refrigeration & house hot water & heating

Just wonder at the initial cost vs just powering up all circuits. I’m sure that affects gen set size. And auto-switching?

[::: :::]

We have above ground lines and live in hurricane and ice storm country. Longest we've been down was 10 days after an ice storm. Hurricanes have knocked things down for a couple days here and there. We went with a small 4,000 watt LP generator. Best bang for the buck, $400 and runs all our fridges, fans, etc. We get roughly 12 hours from a 20 pound LP tank and have 5 tanks on hand. Best thing is LP tanks don't go bad. I do rotate them FIFO on the grill so they're never more than a couple years old but still... Keeping enough gasoline on hand for 5 days without having to siphon out of your cars without it going bad every year is quite a hassle by comparison.

Solar panels might happen next, but not until battery prices come down.

Interesting, thanks for posting that

[4matic]

Diesel needs to be replenished at some point

100 gallons of fuel will run a 4k watt generator for a month if you're careful

[iceman]

With generators there's a huge range of posssibilities and thus costs. They all need fuel though. If you're trying to set yourself up to last through a very extended grid outage, solar (and/or wind) + battery is the way to go for sure. In your area, as no doubt you are aware, the Cascadia fault going off and destroying the grid is a very real possibility at literally any moment. I would say you would be wise to keep that in mind in your planning.

[iceman]

100 gallons of fuel will run a 4k watt generator for a month if you're careful

Honda 4KW generator burns 1.6 gal./hr at full load and .8 at 50%. That's 4 days at 50% for 100 gal.

[SumJongGuy]

Honda 4KW generator burns 1.6 gal./hr at full load and .8 at 50%. That's 4 days at 50% for 100 gal.

Well, ya. But, depending on the season and how comfortable folks are camping, we don't run the gennie 24 hours a day when the grid's down. We do have gas logs with a natty hook up so only need to run a couple small fans to circulate the heat in winter. Also, not as much need to keep fridges running in winter. Summer, we can run the fridges half the day and the A/C in the bedroom a couple hours at night. Really only running stuff 8-12 hours a day tops on the generator. Just hanging out making sure to not open the fridge or freezer doors often.

Another tip. If you know a storm is coming, freeze some gallon or half gallon jugs of water and use them to keep your fridge and freezer cold. And, you'll have some tasty ice water to drink when they are mostly thawed. Ice water is quite a blessing after being without electricity for a couple days after an August hurricane.

[BCMtnHound]

Regarding generators, if heat, hot water, and electric range operation is desired, then you are going larger than 5000W to get into a 240V pull. We have a couple of generators due to the cabin and RV - a 3000W inverter and a 2000W inverter, no 240V available, but we have a back-up gas range, and oil space heaters. Hot water from the gas range. It is the fridge and 2 deep freezers that we really want to keep going. Nice thing about freezers when they are mostly full is that they only need to cycle for about 4hrs a day to keep everything frozen, so you can switch between loads.
Propane for genset is a great idea for fuel storage, but remember propane has a lower efficiency rate in a genset, and this is further reduced by elevation. If you get colder than -20C in winter (below -40C it doesn’t run at all) propane runs very poorly, and insulation or some other source of raising the tank temp is needed.

[Todd Zander]

well, most of us wouldnt run the generator the entire 24 hours of any given day.

if left closed, how often does a chest freezer cycle in a day?

same with a fridge. i think thats what hes saying by being careful

[highangle]

Re: SOLAR ENERGY IS GETTING REALLY CHEAP

So are fuel cells. One 4 L jug of Methanol and a fuel cell displaces a lot of solar equipment.
Or so says the marine outfitter down the street.
Cheap as in $5K per reactor and super-cheap per jug of juice.
https://www.efoy.com/

Last time I saw methanol in a race shop, it was $16/gal and too fucking flammable to consider bringing aboard a plastic boat. Same with compressed hydrogen, except that was way more expensive...

[Rideski]

I’ve heard currently (pun) that energy companies are buying extra power at full price but soon might start only paying a certain percentage?

[BCMtnHound]

Another tip. If you know a storm is coming, freeze some gallon or half gallon jugs of water and use them to keep your fridge and freezer cold. And, you'll have some tasty ice water to drink when they are mostly thawed. Ice water is quite a blessing after being without electricity for a couple days after an August hurricane.

This ^^^ Any space space in our chest freezers is filled with 4 and 2L milk jugs of water. A full freezer is more efficient when running, and always have ice blocks for the coolers as well.

[SumJongGuy]

Regarding generators, if heat, hot water, and electric range operation is desired, then you are going larger than 5000W to get into a 240V pull.

We use a coleman stove and gas grill to cook on. Hot water would be nice, next hot water heater will probably be natty gas. But ya, we camp without hot water when the grid's out for now. Thankfully we have the important things like food and internet or at least cell phone hot spots.

[4matic]

I’ve heard currently (pun) that energy companies are buying extra power at full price but soon might start only paying a certain percentage?

In Cal. the surplus rate is lower than the credit rate. Anything over 100% of your use annually is a poor ROI. I sized at 97% of average use. If you purchase battery storage surplus production capacity has more value.

[SB]

Net metering, look it up.

[bodywhomper]

on subject of generators, we have an older version of the current honda eu7000is as a back-up when we loose power. it's been great for everything but the electric dryer because the dryer's amperage is so high. E on the house is typical lights and small appliances, fridge, microwave, and two 240V pumps (well and storage tank). our over/stove and water heater are propane. We use a manual bypass switch. We have friends with only propane water heater and everything else (including stove and dryer, several water pumps) are electric. Their back-up genie is over 10kW and runs on propane with an auto switch (fancy!). There are plenty of off grid people where I live. I haven't recently talked to any that updated their systems or have new system, but most have an panel array that's not on their roof and diesel or propane genie for night-time or older battery system.

with roof arrays, what do peeps do when their roof leaks?

[4matic]

Net metering, look it up.

You talking to me? The surplus rate is .03c:

"When your panels produce more energy than you can use over the course of one month, you will receive bill credits on your utility bill that can be used in future months. However, if you have excess credits remaining after a 12 month period, you are credited for the extra kilowatt-hours at a lower, wholesale rate. This rate, otherwise referred to as the net surplus compensation rate (NSCR), varies from month to month."

[4matic]

with roof arrays, what do peeps do when their roof leaks?

That's why I bought both at once from a large long standing company. 50 year roof with 25 year production warranty

[iceman]

Last time I saw methanol in a race shop, it was $16/gal and too fucking flammable to consider bringing aboard a plastic boat....

And if it does burn you can't see the flames,

[bodywhomper]

That's why I bought both at once from a large long standing company. 50 year roof with 25 year production warranty

Agree. This seems the way to go. However, I don’t think many replace their roofs when they install rooftop solar.

Our roof started leaking 1 yr after the warranty ended. It was a handful of yrs into its 30 yr life on the materials. Installed by the (supposedly) most reputable company in the area. They offer the longest warranty coverage on installation.

[pureantigravity]

And if it does burn you can't see the flames,

You can still see everything else burning around you!
What more do you need?

[SumJongGuy]

Agree. This seems the way to go. However, I don’t think many replace their roofs when they install rooftop solar.

Our roof started leaking 1 yr after the warranty ended. It was a handful of yrs into its 30 yr life on the materials. Installed by the (supposedly) most reputable company in the area. They offer the longest warranty coverage on installation.

Ya, we bought a 30 year roof in late 1999. Highly recommended contractor. A couple small leaks after 10 years that I found and resolved. found loose shingle with bent nail or cracked board under it and patched with silicone, no other problems until a couple years after the folks putting on an addition redid shingles on that side of the house. Original contractor was no longer in business so I fixed that one myself too. Now, 4 more leaks in the past year, just about 20 years in to the "30 year" product with original company defunct. Probably going metal instead of shingles this time. To be fair, shingle adhesive started failing all over after adding good insulation in the ceiling... made the attic a lot hotter, fucked up the shingles because there isn't a top vent, only front and back vents.