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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    And, no disrespect, but you live in Bumfuck Idaho. Guys are making $60/hr. bending sheetmetal for HVAC in DC, a job that you could learn in a week if you tried hard.
    Yeah, but you'd have to live around DC.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Yeah, but you'd have to live around DC.
    The same example holds true here in Pugetopolis.
    Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    There are jobs where you can make six figures without putting a couple decades of 50-60 hour work weeks in. Supermoon, ...
    That's awesome. I think when people talk about being "passionate" about what they do, it's not necessarily that they want their favorite hobby to be their job, it's more like that. Feeling like you have a stake, being rewarded for hard work, and getting the same type of loyalty back from a company that you give.

    My wife fell into a similar situation. She left her old industry and picked up a job that was just something fun to do while she figured out her next steps. It ended up being with a really great company that saw potential in her and has steadily elevated her up the chain into some real money and real responsibilities. She has companies all over the country trying to poach her and she says no because she is going to be running the place in a few years.

    My experience though, is that it's a lot less common now than my parent's and grandparent's generations.

    I should have been a firefighter or joined the military right out of high school. I'd be two years away from my 20 by now...

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    I think you are not telling the complete story. No one just falls into high end professional services management like a CPA or family law practice without putting in the time, or taking on a massive debt load which requires even more time put in to pay off. Even then, I think a lot of folks aren't counting the time they spend checking email at night, or taking a couple phone calls from the ski lodge for an hour or two. That time adds up, not to mention the stress of being on call basically 24/7. On the tech side I'm not buying it, IT is a 24/7 job and other tech jobs are notorious for hellacious work schedules.

    Again, I'm not saying these jobs don't exist, but they aren't just out there for the taking for just anyone like a lot of you are implying. Meanwhile an 18 year old kid can skip all of that and be grossing 75k a year as an electrician, often with union benefits, before he is 21. Those jobs are out there for the taking (substitute welding, mechanic, or many other blue collar trades if you like).

    This is turning into the boomer thread with a bunch of guys talking about how it isn't that hard to just boot strap your way to making 100k with under 40 hours a week, and it just isn't true. The debt loads alone kids need to run just to get the degree to get one of these elusive jobs you are talking about prevents it right out of the gate.
    Sure, I've put in some time, but even then 60 hour weeks were just if you were on big projects.
    If you're a semi decent developer, data person or engineer and live in a decent size metro, it's not terribly hard to find.
    I'm outside that metro, so my options are more limited, but I have enough internal network to be fine.
    Most serious devs I know work much less than 50 working for the big names and startups.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    The same example holds true here in Pugetopolis.
    bzzzt. wrong, so wrong. Access for skiing, hiking, fishing, as well as the much cooler weather trumps DC.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Yeah, but you'd have to live around DC.
    They don't though, they all live in PA or WV where it's cheap, and they do fine. It's not a bad place to live at all, compared to most places.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    The idea that education is exclusive to large campuses is pretty dumb. Not saying anyone here has stated that, but the idea in general has a lot of purchase socially. The willingness and ability to read is arguably yudgely more valuable than a diploma.
    Start at 3:30

    https://youtu.be/ymsHLkB8u3s?t=201

    WILL: See the sad thing about a guy like you is in about 50 years you’re gonna start doing some thinking on your own and you’re gonna come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life. One, don't do that. And two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin’ education you coulda got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the Public Library.

    CLARK: Yeah, but I will have a degree, and you'll be serving my kids fries at a drive-thru on our way to a skiing trip.
    Why yes, I'd like to super size that..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    bzzzt. wrong, so wrong. Access for skiing, hiking, fishing, as well as the much cooler weather trumps DC.
    Whoops, my post must have been obtuse. I meant that Ice's example of guys with minimal skills in the trades making pretty darn good money is also true out here.
    Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Whoops, my post must have been obtuse. I meant that Ice's example of guys with minimal skills in the trades are making pretty darn good money is also true out here.
    My bad. I thought your were referring to desirability.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    My bad. I thought your were referring to desirability.
    Nah, this area has quite the leg up on DC, but it would be better with fewer people. I'm working on doing my part.
    Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    * an
    Exactly. Wasted a ton of my folks money up east. Learned how to ski tho!

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Well I guess sure, if you put in a couple decades of 50-60 hour weeks you can pull back a bit prior to retirement. Those jobs definitely exist. Pretty much every sales guy is riding his established client base towards the end, but they put the work in busting ass long before that.

    I just think grinding it out in hopes of killing it later is not always a guaranteed path. You still gotta be good at it, and there are 10x as many grinders for life as dudes who figured it out and curtailed their workload.

    I don't think anyone hits the gravy train right out of the gate, but there are plenty gigs that'll throw off a perfectly respectable income (75K) without much effort.
    You keep referencing $75k as a good wage. I believe this is because of a study from years and years ago that most people (and several prominent news articles) misconstrued to say that once you make $75k you won't be happier with additional income. The study actually showed that each additional pay grade above $75k has a slightly diminishing return once you hit $75k, but that people are still generally happier with each additional dollar that they make. E.g. people who make $100k are still happier on average than people who make $80k, etc.

    I believe that study was conducted in 2010 or so. Just about every part of the US has a substantially higher cost of living compared to then. That diminishing returns number is most likely way above and beyond $75k today. It's also very location dependent.

    Trades are also pretty hard on people's bodies. Electrical work is great for a 20 year old, not so great as people get older.

    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    I know a bunch of people making six figures and working 40 or less. I'm one of them. I'd make more if I worked more as I'd be more of a candidate for more senior leadership, but I'd rather spend time with kids, family and hobbies than work.
    Most high pay/low hour jobs are technology focused or high end professional services management. That said, when they need you somewhere, you're on the hook to show up.
    This is my life as well. I'm in the tech world (technical sales, product strategy, client consultation). When I'm needed somewhere (and sometimes that is the other side of the world on short notice) I mostly have to go, but I have been able to start being much more discerning with travel in the past year. I did grind for a while and did 75% travel for years on end with many late nights, but now I'm well into the six figure gross range currently doing ~40 hour work weeks most weeks.

    Ideally I'd be able to do what I'm doing and work remote. That's the dream/next step perhaps?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    ...it would be better with fewer people. I'm working on doing my part.
    Murder? Suicide?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Murder? Suicide?

    Just moving somewhere with fewer people. No need to get violent.
    Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you.

  15. #115
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    ah

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    Trades are also pretty hard on people's bodies.
    This x1000.

    Everyone says do a trade. You know any 55 year-old people in the trades who can still walk? I don't, unless they shifted to a management-type position. I was a timber framer and was dealing with all sorts of weird physical issues at 30. Sure glad I don't do that anymore, though I sure as shit miss it sometimes heading to work in my fucking wingtips.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    This x1000.

    I sure as shit miss it sometimes heading to work in my fucking wingtips.
    Cheer up, maybe you can franchise the baby wingtips.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    Sure, I've put in some time, but even then 60 hour weeks were just if you were on big projects.
    If you're a semi decent developer, data person or engineer and live in a decent size metro, it's not terribly hard to find.
    I'm outside that metro, so my options are more limited, but I have enough internal network to be fine.
    Most serious devs I know work much less than 50 working for the big names and startups.
    Yeah, tech is a pretty solid place to be and have sane hours with a good salary. But if youíre not good at saying no, its easy to get saddled with not-so-sane hours. Less than 40 hours is pretty easy to swing also, just riskier.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    It ain't called "work" for nuthin'! The thing I don't understand is why so many people who clearly have enough money to retire still continue to work. I plan to be out as soon as I possibly can.
    I'm one of those. I am in my 60's and I tried being retired, then tried being semi-retired (consultant for my former company) and I found I did not enjoy it. I went back to work in a totally different field, started at the bottom and now run the show. I found that the social aspect of work is what I enjoy. Interacting with my coworkers and the public is why I keep working.
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  20. #120
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    &quot;My job is not my passion&quot;

    31 yrs ago I started a summer job in my industry. Loved the science, and loved the field work, mostly alone in beautiful remote locations. Still do. Spent time consulting, sub-contracting, and then working for the government. All had their plus and minuses. For the past 8yrs Iíve volunteered for the local SAR team, been a part of the executive for the past 4.
    The common factor in both endeavours that contributed to stress that would drive me away was dealing with other people or their work. Left to my own work, or skill building, and I am happy as a clam. Not the highest paid actor out there by a large margin, as in every case to move up in the billing ladder means dealing with an increasing number of people (that spend most of their time manipulating bullshit to influence other people to do something they donít really want to do, for someone elseís benefit).
    So I like to live in bumfuck nowhere, dealing with as few assholes as possible. Money has almost nothing to do with it.
    And passion is for seducing the lady, or for starving Ďartistsí creating something for someone else to appreciate.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    This x1000.

    Everyone says do a trade. You know any 55 year-old people in the trades who can still walk? I don't, unless they shifted to a management-type position. I was a timber framer and was dealing with all sorts of weird physical issues at 30. Sure glad I don't do that anymore, though I sure as shit miss it sometimes heading to work in my fucking wingtips.
    In addition to the reduced career earning lifetime, there's the potential for substantial injury that will eliminate earnings for a year, or a lifetime.

    the trades are a beta play on wealth.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    the trades are a beta play on wealth.
    There's no doubt about that but it's still a way for people to get through their lives in reasonable style. One of the diminishing number of ways to do that.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCMtnHound View Post
    31 yrs ago I started a summer job in my industry. Loved the science, and loved the field work, mostly alone in beautiful remote locations. Still do. Spent time consulting, sub-contracting, and then working for the government. All had their plus and minuses. For the past 8yrs Iíve volunteered for the local SAR team, been a part of the executive for the past 4.
    The common factor in both endeavours that contributed to stress that would drive me away was dealing with other people or their work. Left to my own work, or skill building, and I am happy as a clam. Not the highest paid actor out there by a large margin, as in every case to move up in the billing ladder means dealing with an increasing number of people (that spend most of their time manipulating bullshit to influence other people to do something they donít really want to do, for someone elseís benefit).
    So I like to live in bumfuck nowhere, dealing with as few assholes as possible. Money has almost nothing to do with it.
    And passion is for seducing the lady, or for starving Ďartistsí creating something for someone else to appreciate.

    That's pretty fuckin good.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    There's no doubt about that but it's still a way for people to get through their lives in reasonable style. One of the diminishing number of ways to do that.
    I know too many trade people who's lives got royally fucked in '07-09 to say that.

    edit: at the end all of these things are macro at some level. want to make money in a trade you are a small businessman. subject to the vicissitudes of such a life. cube rat gos on funemployment which is annoying. small businessman eats savings.

  25. #125
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    I think some of you live in horribly depressed job markets. My nephew just graduated from unc charlotte. A good but not great school. Starting salary at BofA 75k. 20k sign on bonus. Puts his 40 hours in and goes home. He will have to get mba at some point, but for now fuck passion. He’s 22 pays $800 month in rent and is saving a ton of money.
    My other niece is a nurse anesthetist. 25 makes $150k a year. Works 3 12 hour days. Picks up prn days at an outpatient surgery center for extra money. Bought a nice house with big down payment.
    This is all in poor old North Carolina. Maybe some here should have skipped English degrees and fly tying classes.
    You seem to be angry being poor.
    I know a ton of pharma reps making 150k plus who barely work 25 hours a week.

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