Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,252

    Spray foam insulation

    Ok so my internet search didn't turn up anything definitive so maybe you knuckleheads can help.
    Redoing a house and finishing part of basement. Doing closed cell on the walls, but for sound purposes we are also insulating the ceiling. Open cell there as it's most for sound. Question is do you just spray over all the water pipes? It's open cell so easier to just pull out, and all plumbing is new pex. I know the foam guy say yep, but wondering what you say?

    Have at it please. Downpayment made but not date set for install.

    Doing walls no matter what more concerned with plumbing in ceiling. I guess in event of a leak it's still removing sheetrock etc but figured asking can't hurt.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    base of the Bush
    Posts
    10,469
    I wouldn't be worried about covering pipes. Pressure test before spraying. Pex can expand if frozen, but likely wouldn't buried in insulation. If it leaks in the future for some reason pull a new pipe to replace the old one. Bonus is the insulated pipes will stay hot/cold with less heat loss. Next house I build will have channels for the pex runs to the Manabloc and I'll have those foamed in for insulation.
    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,252
    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    I wouldn't be worried about covering pipes. Pressure test before spraying. Pex can expand if frozen, but likely wouldn't buried in insulation. If it leaks in the future for some reason pull a new pipe to replace the old one. Bonus is the insulated pipes will stay hot/cold with less heat loss. Next house I build will have channels for the pex runs to the Manabloc and I'll have those foamed in for insulation.
    Yeah the plumbing was inspected, but we don't have the sinks etc hooked yet. Will test those all and the new radiators before foam.

    Thanks for the reply.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Hugh's Mom's House
    Posts
    11,741
    Are you sure you want to do spray foam for soundproofing? I have never seen anyone who know suggest this is a good idea. Fiberglass or mineral fiber seem to be far more common for sound purposes.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,252
    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Are you sure you want to do spray foam for soundproofing? I have never seen anyone who know suggest this is a good idea. Fiberglass or mineral fiber seem to be far more common for sound purposes.
    Google is your friend. Many different ways. Open cell foam being one. This is only to deaden the footfalls when in the basement from the above floor. We used fiber for the upstairs interior walls, too costly and time consuming for the basement application. Pipes, ducts, electric, all make it more difficult.

    Closed cell foam for half the walls (portion to be finished) roughly 600 sq ft. Open cell in ceilings of entire basement, approx 1k sq ft. $2k for the entire job.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    pdx
    Posts
    11,603
    yes, people will sell it to you, but, no, spray foam for sound isn't a great choice. People who foam their attics to insulate notice how they can hear the rain on the roof deck still.

    you want resilient channel on the ceiling joists w/ the perimeter of the ceiling a caulk joint to isolate the vibrations of the upper floor.
    fill the joist cavities completely with glass fiber sound batt [this will affect any recessed lighting (need IC)]

    add layers of sheet rock to increase the effect (but make sure the floor joists are of reasonable size first)

    if you are doing the flooring of the level above, add a rubber mat or other sound absorbing underlayment under any flooring

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    4,016
    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    I wouldn't be worried about covering pipes. Pressure test before spraying. Pex can expand if frozen, but likely wouldn't buried in insulation. If it leaks in the future for some reason pull a new pipe to replace the old one. Bonus is the insulated pipes will stay hot/cold with less heat loss. Next house I build will have channels for the pex runs to the Manabloc and I'll have those foamed in for insulation.
    What would you make the channels out of, just 2x stock?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    VT
    Posts
    126
    If your goal is to reduce sound transmission, you could apply Acoustiblok to the joists / furring before drywall. Also use their tape at the joints and perimeter sealant. Better STC / performance than RC / add’l drywall. Cavity could get Rockwool or similar. https://www.acoustiblok.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,252
    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    yes, people will sell it to you, but, no, spray foam for sound isn't a great choice. People who foam their attics to insulate notice how they can hear the rain on the roof deck still.

    you want resilient channel on the ceiling joists w/ the perimeter of the ceiling a caulk joint to isolate the vibrations of the upper floor.
    fill the joist cavities completely with glass fiber sound batt [this will affect any recessed lighting (need IC)]

    add layers of sheet rock to increase the effect (but make sure the floor joists are of reasonable size first)

    if you are doing the flooring of the level above, add a rubber mat or other sound absorbing underlayment under any flooring
    Its a reno, not new construct. orig house built in 1948. I'd love to do what you're saying it just isnt feasible in the current home. This is really the only cost effective option. We dont need it ultra quiet down there, jsut a little better and the foam wont hurt with normal insulation (heat/cooling), so screw it.
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    pdx
    Posts
    11,603
    Not following how new/existing complicates it — do you have pipes and conduit below the joists or something? Is ceiling height already too low?

    Glass fiber should be MUCH more cost effective than foam

    If you’re planning on a sheetrock ceiling anyway, adding resilient channel is pretty reasonable — although resetting lights another 1/2” down might be annoying

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    17,620
    I have a basement suite with a gyroc ceiling, I dropped the ceiling 6 " and put in Roxul it seemed to deaden the noise pretty good, i hear noises down there but they are indistinct & very muffled

    https://www.noisehelp.com/soundproofing-material.html

    Insulation. Loosely packed fiber provides excellent sound absorption, which is a factor in soundproofing, albeit a minor one. Standard fiberglass insulation is as effective as mineral wool, and much less costly. Foams give great thermal insulation but are actually poor for soundproofing.

    according to this ^^ foam is poor for sound deadening
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,252
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I have a basement suite with a gyroc ceiling, I dropped the ceiling 6 " and put in Roxul it seemed to deaden the noise pretty good, i hear noises down there but they are indistinct & very muffled

    https://www.noisehelp.com/soundproofing-material.html

    Insulation. Loosely packed fiber provides excellent sound absorption, which is a factor in soundproofing, albeit a minor one. Standard fiberglass insulation is as effective as mineral wool, and much less costly. Foams give great thermal insulation but are actually poor for soundproofing.

    according to this ^^ foam is poor for sound deadening
    remember we are discussing OPEN CELL foam not closed. Open cell has many air gaps, which is what you are describing. the pipes make other forms of insulation problematic as well as questionable ceiling height, we cant lose any more height. We are also only sheetrocking the finished portion ceiling which leave have the ceiling uninsulated.

    https://www.soundproofcow.com/foam-a...SAAEgIuaPD_BwE
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    pdx
    Posts
    11,603
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    remember we are discussing OPEN CELL foam not closed. Open cell has many air gaps, which is what you are describing. the pipes make other forms of insulation problematic as well as questionable ceiling height, we cant lose any more height. We are also only sheetrocking the finished portion ceiling which leave have the ceiling uninsulated.

    https://www.soundproofcow.com/foam-a...SAAEgIuaPD_BwE
    Just be clear on sound absorption vs sound blocking...

    Sound absorption makes a room less vibrant (echo-y) & it works on the sound IN the room

    Sound blocking is isolating the sounds of one space from another

    here's other pertinent info from the site xxx-er linked:
    https://www.noisehelp.com/how-to-soundproof.html
    https://www.noisehelp.com/soundproofing-paint.html

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,252
    rough pricing based on rockwool being about $84/42sq ft....roughly 1K sq ft...thats nearly $2K for the ceiling alone. Im getting half the walls and the entire ceiling done for less. Even if it only deadens a little sound ill be plenty happy, plus its way faster to install than a rockwool or other suggested solutions, and cant hurt at all as regular insulation.

    The point of the thread was more about spraying around the pipes and working on them later if needed. How hard removal of the open cell would be, looks like its easy compared to closed cell.

    I do appreciate all the replies and am sure there are better solutions but this isnt a soundstage, just a basement we want to make a tad bit quieter.
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    pdx
    Posts
    11,603
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    rough pricing based on rockwool being about $84/42sq ft....roughly 1K sq ft...thats nearly $2K for the ceiling alone. Im getting half the walls and the entire ceiling done for less. Even if it only deadens a little sound ill be plenty happy, plus its way faster to install than a rockwool or other suggested solutions, and cant hurt at all as regular insulation.

    The point of the thread was more about spraying around the pipes and working on them later if needed. How hard removal of the open cell would be, looks like its easy compared to closed cell.

    I do appreciate all the replies and am sure there are better solutions but this isnt a soundstage, just a basement we want to make a tad bit quieter.
    i'm sorry to belabor this, but is there something about fiberglass that you don't like?
    because it's the cheapest, fastest to install, and it will be equally if not more effective re: sound & repair situations

    if you're set on foam in the ceiling, have at it, but it really isn't the right product for what you're looking for, as far as i can tell from what you've described

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,252
    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    i'm sorry to belabor this, but is there something about fiberglass that you don't like?
    because it's the cheapest, fastest to install, and it will be equally if not more effective re: sound & repair situations

    if you're set on foam in the ceiling, have at it, but it really isn't the right product for what you're looking for, as far as i can tell from what you've described
    I have fiberglass under another finished space (above garage addition) and it literally doesn't do anything. Open cell will literally fill every void. Don't see how fiberglass would even come close in terms of coverage. No to mention open cell is considerably more sense. It surely can't be any worse than fiberglass that's for sure.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    17,620
    I used to be able to hear everything down therein that bedroom right under my bedroom, the old tenant was very quiet but the new couple was young, so since she was infamous for doing a playboy shoot I figured sound deadening might be a good idea

    A 6" dropped ceiling filled with roxul & new higher performance acoustic tiles in t-bar worked pretty well, just some indistinct dull sounds and i did the job with tin snips and an olfa knife
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    pdx
    Posts
    11,603
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    It surely can't be any worse than fiberglass that's for sure.
    it's likely to be the same (maybe marginally better), and you're paying a premium for it

    look back at that soundcow website, there's good info in there that could get you a more effective installation with less cost (not necessarily with their products even, but the methodologies presented are solid)

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,252
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I used to be able to hear everything down therein that bedroom right under my bedroom, the old tenant was very quiet but the new couple was young, so since she was infamous for doing a playboy shoot I figured sound deadening might be a good idea

    A 6" dropped ceiling filled with roxul & new higher performance acoustic tiles in t-bar worked pretty well, just some indistinct dull sounds and i did the job with tin snips and an olfa knife
    drop ceiling would make it so only people under 5'5" could be down there lol...
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,252
    Quote Originally Posted by acinpdx View Post
    it's likely to be the same (maybe marginally better), and you're paying a premium for it

    look back at that soundcow website, there's good info in there that could get you a more effective installation with less cost (not necessarily with their products even, but the methodologies presented are solid)
    honestly the open cell is kind of an add on. In fact, simple owens corning R19 fiberglass insul. 75 sq feet is about $55, math works out to about $715. Im getting it done for under $800 (ceiling only) and there wont be any voids and will take a ton less time. Really not all that much cheaper...if at all.
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    17,620
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    drop ceiling would make it so only people under 5'5" could be down there lol...

    no the basement is only half buried and the ceilings are a full 8' so a 6" drop is not noticable

    with pretty much everything in small town narthern BC you often are limited by what is readily available which in this case is roxul or FG batts, FG acoustic tiles and metal t-bar
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,252
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    no the basement is only half buried and the ceilings are a full 8' so a 6" drop is not noticable

    with pretty much everything in small town narthern BC you often are limited by what is readily available which in this case is roxul or FG batts, FG acoustic tiles and metal t-bar
    i meant in my basement. Ceilings are for sure nowhere near 8ft. maybe 7'. Drop ceiling is not an option for me (6'3").
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    17,620
    well every app is different

    I did sound deadening in the low ceiling of the suite in my last house which was already T-bar so for that app I just tucked the batts up between the joists which was very easy

    in this last app I was in a hurry to get erdone between tennants, I already had a gyproc ceiling which would have been messy to rip out to put in sound deadening and then I would still have to put in another ceiling over that SO a dropped ceiling was the obvious answer

    i know some people think T-bar is terribly gauche and it might be in some houses but its a good thing in at least some of a basement to allow acess, my buddy the electrician told me the first thing they look at when they walk in any basement is whats the ceiling made out of


    didnt randy newman write a song about tall people having no reason to live ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    pdx
    Posts
    11,603
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    i know some people think T-bar is terribly gauche and it might be in some houses
    T-bar should NEVER be used in houses, apartments, tents, yurts, vans down by the river or any other residential applications, but that's not to say it isn't...

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    17,620
    In a 100 yr old house you wana keep trad there isn't anywhere T-bar would look right

    But in the basement of a 30 yr old spec home its a pretty good Idea to be able to get at your services even if you only do parts of the ceiling

    its not like sheet roc is some hallowed medium of building materials
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •