Spray foam insulation

[Skidog]

Ok so my internet search didn't turn up anything definitive so maybe you knuckleheads can help.
Redoing a house and finishing part of basement. Doing closed cell on the walls, but for sound purposes we are also insulating the ceiling. Open cell there as it's most for sound. Question is do you just spray over all the water pipes? It's open cell so easier to just pull out, and all plumbing is new pex. I know the foam guy say yep, but wondering what you say?

Have at it please. Downpayment made but not date set for install.

Doing walls no matter what more concerned with plumbing in ceiling. I guess in event of a leak it's still removing sheetrock etc but figured asking can't hurt.

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[Vt-Freeheel]

I wouldn't be worried about covering pipes. Pressure test before spraying. Pex can expand if frozen, but likely wouldn't buried in insulation. If it leaks in the future for some reason pull a new pipe to replace the old one. Bonus is the insulated pipes will stay hot/cold with less heat loss. Next house I build will have channels for the pex runs to the Manabloc and I'll have those foamed in for insulation.

[Skidog]

I wouldn't be worried about covering pipes. Pressure test before spraying. Pex can expand if frozen, but likely wouldn't buried in insulation. If it leaks in the future for some reason pull a new pipe to replace the old one. Bonus is the insulated pipes will stay hot/cold with less heat loss. Next house I build will have channels for the pex runs to the Manabloc and I'll have those foamed in for insulation.

Yeah the plumbing was inspected, but we don't have the sinks etc hooked yet. Will test those all and the new radiators before foam.

Thanks for the reply.

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[RootSkier]

Are you sure you want to do spray foam for soundproofing? I have never seen anyone who know suggest this is a good idea. Fiberglass or mineral fiber seem to be far more common for sound purposes.

[Skidog]

Are you sure you want to do spray foam for soundproofing? I have never seen anyone who know suggest this is a good idea. Fiberglass or mineral fiber seem to be far more common for sound purposes.

Google is your friend. Many different ways. Open cell foam being one. This is only to deaden the footfalls when in the basement from the above floor. We used fiber for the upstairs interior walls, too costly and time consuming for the basement application. Pipes, ducts, electric, all make it more difficult.

Closed cell foam for half the walls (portion to be finished) roughly 600 sq ft. Open cell in ceilings of entire basement, approx 1k sq ft. $2k for the entire job.

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[::: :::]

yes, people will sell it to you, but, no, spray foam for sound isn't a great choice. People who foam their attics to insulate notice how they can hear the rain on the roof deck still.

you want resilient channel on the ceiling joists w/ the perimeter of the ceiling a caulk joint to isolate the vibrations of the upper floor.
fill the joist cavities completely with glass fiber sound batt [this will affect any recessed lighting (need IC)]

add layers of sheet rock to increase the effect (but make sure the floor joists are of reasonable size first)

if you are doing the flooring of the level above, add a rubber mat or other sound absorbing underlayment under any flooring

[jackstraw]

I wouldn't be worried about covering pipes. Pressure test before spraying. Pex can expand if frozen, but likely wouldn't buried in insulation. If it leaks in the future for some reason pull a new pipe to replace the old one. Bonus is the insulated pipes will stay hot/cold with less heat loss. Next house I build will have channels for the pex runs to the Manabloc and I'll have those foamed in for insulation.

What would you make the channels out of, just 2x stock?

[ctsmith]

If your goal is to reduce sound transmission, you could apply Acoustiblok to the joists / furring before drywall. Also use their tape at the joints and perimeter sealant. Better STC / performance than RC / add’l drywall. Cavity could get Rockwool or similar. https://www.acoustiblok.com

[Skidog]

yes, people will sell it to you, but, no, spray foam for sound isn't a great choice. People who foam their attics to insulate notice how they can hear the rain on the roof deck still.

you want resilient channel on the ceiling joists w/ the perimeter of the ceiling a caulk joint to isolate the vibrations of the upper floor.
fill the joist cavities completely with glass fiber sound batt [this will affect any recessed lighting (need IC)]

add layers of sheet rock to increase the effect (but make sure the floor joists are of reasonable size first)

if you are doing the flooring of the level above, add a rubber mat or other sound absorbing underlayment under any flooring

Its a reno, not new construct. orig house built in 1948. I'd love to do what you're saying it just isnt feasible in the current home. This is really the only cost effective option. We dont need it ultra quiet down there, jsut a little better and the foam wont hurt with normal insulation (heat/cooling), so screw it.

[::: :::]

Not following how new/existing complicates it — do you have pipes and conduit below the joists or something? Is ceiling height already too low?

Glass fiber should be MUCH more cost effective than foam

If you’re planning on a sheetrock ceiling anyway, adding resilient channel is pretty reasonable — although resetting lights another 1/2” down might be annoying

[XXX-er]

I have a basement suite with a gyroc ceiling, I dropped the ceiling 6 " and put in Roxul it seemed to deaden the noise pretty good, i hear noises down there but they are indistinct & very muffled

https://www.noisehelp.com/soundproofing-material.html

Insulation. Loosely packed fiber provides excellent sound absorption, which is a factor in soundproofing, albeit a minor one. Standard fiberglass insulation is as effective as mineral wool, and much less costly. Foams give great thermal insulation but are actually poor for soundproofing.

according to this ^^ foam is poor for sound deadening

[Skidog]

I have a basement suite with a gyroc ceiling, I dropped the ceiling 6 " and put in Roxul it seemed to deaden the noise pretty good, i hear noises down there but they are indistinct & very muffled

https://www.noisehelp.com/soundproofing-material.html

Insulation. Loosely packed fiber provides excellent sound absorption, which is a factor in soundproofing, albeit a minor one. Standard fiberglass insulation is as effective as mineral wool, and much less costly. Foams give great thermal insulation but are actually poor for soundproofing.

according to this ^^ foam is poor for sound deadening

remember we are discussing OPEN CELL foam not closed. Open cell has many air gaps, which is what you are describing. the pipes make other forms of insulation problematic as well as questionable ceiling height, we cant lose any more height. We are also only sheetrocking the finished portion ceiling which leave have the ceiling uninsulated.

https://www.soundproofcow.com/foam-a...SAAEgIuaPD_BwE

[::: :::]

remember we are discussing OPEN CELL foam not closed. Open cell has many air gaps, which is what you are describing. the pipes make other forms of insulation problematic as well as questionable ceiling height, we cant lose any more height. We are also only sheetrocking the finished portion ceiling which leave have the ceiling uninsulated.

https://www.soundproofcow.com/foam-a...SAAEgIuaPD_BwE

Just be clear on sound absorption vs sound blocking...

Sound absorption makes a room less vibrant (echo-y) & it works on the sound IN the room

Sound blocking is isolating the sounds of one space from another

here's other pertinent info from the site xxx-er linked:
https://www.noisehelp.com/how-to-soundproof.html
https://www.noisehelp.com/soundproofing-paint.html

[Skidog]

rough pricing based on rockwool being about $84/42sq ft....roughly 1K sq ft...thats nearly $2K for the ceiling alone. Im getting half the walls and the entire ceiling done for less. Even if it only deadens a little sound ill be plenty happy, plus its way faster to install than a rockwool or other suggested solutions, and cant hurt at all as regular insulation.

The point of the thread was more about spraying around the pipes and working on them later if needed. How hard removal of the open cell would be, looks like its easy compared to closed cell.

I do appreciate all the replies and am sure there are better solutions but this isnt a soundstage, just a basement we want to make a tad bit quieter.

[::: :::]

rough pricing based on rockwool being about $84/42sq ft....roughly 1K sq ft...thats nearly $2K for the ceiling alone. Im getting half the walls and the entire ceiling done for less. Even if it only deadens a little sound ill be plenty happy, plus its way faster to install than a rockwool or other suggested solutions, and cant hurt at all as regular insulation.

The point of the thread was more about spraying around the pipes and working on them later if needed. How hard removal of the open cell would be, looks like its easy compared to closed cell.

I do appreciate all the replies and am sure there are better solutions but this isnt a soundstage, just a basement we want to make a tad bit quieter.

i'm sorry to belabor this, but is there something about fiberglass that you don't like?
because it's the cheapest, fastest to install, and it will be equally if not more effective re: sound & repair situations

if you're set on foam in the ceiling, have at it, but it really isn't the right product for what you're looking for, as far as i can tell from what you've described

[Skidog]

i'm sorry to belabor this, but is there something about fiberglass that you don't like?
because it's the cheapest, fastest to install, and it will be equally if not more effective re: sound & repair situations

if you're set on foam in the ceiling, have at it, but it really isn't the right product for what you're looking for, as far as i can tell from what you've described

I have fiberglass under another finished space (above garage addition) and it literally doesn't do anything. Open cell will literally fill every void. Don't see how fiberglass would even come close in terms of coverage. No to mention open cell is considerably more sense. It surely can't be any worse than fiberglass that's for sure.

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[XXX-er]

I used to be able to hear everything down therein that bedroom right under my bedroom, the old tenant was very quiet but the new couple was young, so since she was infamous for doing a playboy shoot I figured sound deadening might be a good idea

A 6" dropped ceiling filled with roxul & new higher performance acoustic tiles in t-bar worked pretty well, just some indistinct dull sounds and i did the job with tin snips and an olfa knife

[::: :::]

It surely can't be any worse than fiberglass that's for sure.

it's likely to be the same (maybe marginally better), and you're paying a premium for it

look back at that soundcow website, there's good info in there that could get you a more effective installation with less cost (not necessarily with their products even, but the methodologies presented are solid)

[Skidog]

I used to be able to hear everything down therein that bedroom right under my bedroom, the old tenant was very quiet but the new couple was young, so since she was infamous for doing a playboy shoot I figured sound deadening might be a good idea

A 6" dropped ceiling filled with roxul & new higher performance acoustic tiles in t-bar worked pretty well, just some indistinct dull sounds and i did the job with tin snips and an olfa knife

drop ceiling would make it so only people under 5'5" could be down there lol...

[Skidog]

it's likely to be the same (maybe marginally better), and you're paying a premium for it

look back at that soundcow website, there's good info in there that could get you a more effective installation with less cost (not necessarily with their products even, but the methodologies presented are solid)

honestly the open cell is kind of an add on. In fact, simple owens corning R19 fiberglass insul. 75 sq feet is about $55, math works out to about $715. Im getting it done for under $800 (ceiling only) and there wont be any voids and will take a ton less time. Really not all that much cheaper...if at all.

[XXX-er]

drop ceiling would make it so only people under 5'5" could be down there lol...

no the basement is only half buried and the ceilings are a full 8' so a 6" drop is not noticable

with pretty much everything in small town narthern BC you often are limited by what is readily available which in this case is roxul or FG batts, FG acoustic tiles and metal t-bar

[Skidog]

no the basement is only half buried and the ceilings are a full 8' so a 6" drop is not noticable

with pretty much everything in small town narthern BC you often are limited by what is readily available which in this case is roxul or FG batts, FG acoustic tiles and metal t-bar

i meant in my basement. Ceilings are for sure nowhere near 8ft. maybe 7'. Drop ceiling is not an option for me (6'3").

[XXX-er]

well every app is different

I did sound deadening in the low ceiling of the suite in my last house which was already T-bar so for that app I just tucked the batts up between the joists which was very easy

in this last app I was in a hurry to get erdone between tennants, I already had a gyproc ceiling which would have been messy to rip out to put in sound deadening and then I would still have to put in another ceiling over that SO a dropped ceiling was the obvious answer

i know some people think T-bar is terribly gauche and it might be in some houses but its a good thing in at least some of a basement to allow acess, my buddy the electrician told me the first thing they look at when they walk in any basement is whats the ceiling made out of


didnt randy newman write a song about tall people having no reason to live ?

[::: :::]

i know some people think T-bar is terribly gauche and it might be in some houses

T-bar should NEVER be used in houses, apartments, tents, yurts, vans down by the river or any other residential applications, but that's not to say it isn't...

[XXX-er]

In a 100 yr old house you wana keep trad there isn't anywhere T-bar would look right

But in the basement of a 30 yr old spec home its a pretty good Idea to be able to get at your services even if you only do parts of the ceiling

its not like sheet roc is some hallowed medium of building materials