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  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Another big difference is the levels of organization.

    Religions tend to be very organized, atheists squabble incessantly and recognize no imam or papal tree.

    Organizations become corrupt, atheists have a harder time getting money from other non believers, including those who believe there is no god.

    oh no doubt. bureaucracy is the main enemy.

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    It's never really been their main line of business. They've generally been more on the receiving end.
    Says who? Proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Are you saying that only atheists get abortions? You funny mang.

    NO. I'm saying that is not an abortion question, mang. I'm asking about killings of children (born ones period.).


    I'll ask again:

    Re: The difference being mainly in the killing of non-believers and raping children bits.

    So atheiests don't do that, currently? historically speaking?

    How about we also just lump that (the last question still standing) with killing of children (already born ones). Then what?

  3. #178
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    You know you can believe in nothing for free eh

    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Says who? Proof?
    I need to prove history to you? Huh. Not sure where to begin.

    Especially since I don't believe most of that either, cf. bureaucracy etc.

  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    I need to prove history to you? Huh. Not sure where to begin.

    Especially since I don't believe most of that either, cf. bureaucracy etc.
    Start anywhere. You can do it. Dig deeeeep.
    Begin anywhere.
    No need to prove - just demonstrate that you aren't full of shit.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    re: Atheists believe (have faith in) the idea that there is no god.
    Have to be careful here distinguishing between atheists and agnostics.
    Agnostics believe that the nature of god, including the existence thereof, is unknowable.
    The classical atheists do not believe in god, which sort of includes the agnostics. A more modern definitions of atheist is one who believes there is no god.

    I'm not sure if there's a common belief for atheists regarding the manifestation of the physical world. One theory is the Big Bang. Another theory is that there was a Big Note that created harmonics that resulted in the vibrations, good and bad, which we interpret as matter. Credit the latter to FZ.

    And again for the umpteenth time, atheists never claimed to serve gods children and protect them while simultaneously configuring mechanisms that protected the molesters of children in systematic and deeply hypocritical ways. No one is claiming atheists are perfect or protectants like the Catholic church does.

    How? How does one have faith that there is no god(s)?

    So, what do athiests think made the physical world?

    re: The difference being mainly in the killing of non-believers and raping children bits.

    So atheiests don't do that, currently? historically speaking?

    How about we also just lump that (the last question still standing) with killing of children (already born ones). Then what?
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  7. #182
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    The Aborigines probably have it more right than anyone else, anyways.

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Start anywhere. You can do it. Dig deeeeep.
    Begin anywhere.
    No need to prove - just demonstrate that you aren't full of shit.
    How about we turn it around and ask for one instance in history of a massacre that was done in the name of Atheism. You do that and I'll pretend to take your challenge slightly more seriously.

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    How about we turn it around and ask for one instance in history of a massacre that was done in the name of Atheism. You do that and I'll pretend to take your challenge slightly more seriously.
    People will claim the Nazis or Stalin were atheistic, which sort of isn't true.

    Nazism and Stalinism were cults of personality and hence a religion in itself and just as conflicted and hypocritical.

    Atheists are not an organization. Religions are organizations.
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  10. #185
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    I've tried going to churches but it has always made me feel sick. The hypocrisy, the haughty exclusiveness, the lies and misinformation and leading the poor sheep down to the donation bowl.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  11. #186
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    I know you get this, but Atheists killing people is different than atheists killing people in the name of athieism.

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    oh no doubt. bureaucracy is the main enemy.
    bingo
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  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Atheists never claimed to serve gods children and protect them while simultaneously configuring mechanisms that protected the molesters of children in systematic and deeply hypocritical ways. No one is claiming atheists are perfect or protectants like the Catholic church does.
    I'm not sure that is true. There are probably lots of pedo rings run by atheists.
    Probably well organized and funded and bureaucratic.
    The counting of athiest child rapists, in the present moment,. probably exceeds the number of sum of all Catholic priests that were ordained in the last 2000 years and their victims.

    Old news:
    https://www.sootoday.com/local-news/...rrested-110389

    More recent:
    https://www.cp24.com/news/owners-of-...bust-1.4474497

    I'm not saying that Religious Organizations (Catholics esp. with ban on priests engaging in normal sexual relations) isn't complicit,
    I'm saying that it cannot be used as an excuse for hating on 'religion'.

    This topic is depressing me.

    Re: Agnostics believe that the nature of god, including the existence thereof, is unknowable.

    How do they know that?

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    I know you get this, but Atheists killing people is different than atheists killing people in the name of athieism.
    Right, that's why I tried to short circuit the usual claim about Nazis or Stalin.
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  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Do you think you're being tricky here? No, Atheists believe (have faith in) the idea that there is no god. Always seemed to me to be exactly equivalent to religious faith. In both you believe something you do not know for a fact and which can not be proven.

    The difference being mainly in the killing of non-believers, raping of children, and related ancillary bits.

    Just as I don't think I need to conform with the non-conformists I don't think I need to believe what the non-believers believe.
    How did you choose your flavor of religious belief ice? What was the process of elimination of all the other flavors?

    It always seems silly to equate the belief in the unproven and unprovable with a lack of believe in the unproven and unprovable.

    Especially since in the overwhelming majority of the religious it's based on some level of childhood indoctrination and cultural, societal acceptance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    I'm not sure that is true. There are probably lots of pedo rings run by atheists.
    The counting of child victims, in the present moment,. probably exceeeds the number of Catholic priests that were ordained in the last 2000 years.

    Old news:
    https://www.sootoday.com/local-news/...rrested-110389

    More recent:
    https://www.cp24.com/news/owners-of-...bust-1.4474497

    I'm not saying that Religious Organizations (Catholics esp. with ban on priests engaging in normal sexual relations) isn't complicit,
    None of those instances are explicitly atheist, so those are bullshit examples, likely populated by religious types.
    I'm saying that it cannot be used as an excuse for hating on 'religion'.

    This topic is depressing me.

    Re: Agnostics believe that the nature of god, including the existence thereof, is unknowable.

    How do they know that?
    You're confusing knowing with believing.
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  17. #192
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    @ PNWB: IN matters of faith and existence I only believe that we have no fucking idea what's going on. I do, however, believe that religiously.

  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    None of those instances are explicitly atheist, so those are bullshit examples, likely populated by religious types.

    You're confusing knowing with believing.
    I doubt that. With the decline of religious types, the evidence more likely points to them being Sentient Beings with no religious affiliation.

    In any case, your 'religious types' probably includes anyone that ever looked up and wondered about the universe.

    Re: You're confusing knowing with believing.

    No I'm not. Swap words and then come at it again.

  19. #194
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    Killing of children. Bury me at Wounded Knee. I don't know if they were Christian but it would be a good guess. . Pretty sure they weren't Jews. Atheists? Catholics? Maybe. Army was a job of last resort back then. My point is that the killing of children is a common human ability. Human Nature and it's ability to be inhumane is a bitch but it's better to acknowledge it. I am always surprised that people are surprised.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Let's all try this on for size: snowboarders are stupid.
    .
    Go on...

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    @ PNWB: IN matters of faith and existence I only believe that we have no fucking idea what's going on. I do, however, believe that religiously.
    Makes my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    I doubt that. With the decline of religious types, the evidence more likely points to them being Sentient Beings with no religious affiliation.
    Now you're just making shit up to fit your narrative. Poor form.

    In any case, your 'religious types' probably includes anyone that ever looked up and wondered about the universe.
    No, I'm talking about clowns like you.

    Re: You're confusing knowing with believing.

    No I'm not. Swap words and then come at it again.
    May I suggest some more epistemological exercises before you confuse believing with knowing.
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  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Go on...
    Don't misquote me sonny or I'll tell everyone how you ditched the greatest skis evah made.
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  24. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    How did you choose your flavor of religious belief ice? What was the process of elimination of all the other flavors?

    It always seems silly to equate the belief in the unproven and unprovable with a lack of believe in the unproven and unprovable.

    Especially since in the overwhelming majority of the religious it's based on some level of childhood indoctrination and cultural, societal acceptance.
    I think we need to parse this into two categories:

    (A) People that claim to have a belief and learned something to hang their hat on. I call them BELIEVERS of whatever (not religious exclusively but have some substance to their belief). So then, self-identified ATHIESTS and/or AGNOSTICS are in fact believers. That also doesn't place all belief on the same level - because belief can also be evaluated for rationality and evidence too.

    (B) People that claim to have no belief but claim to be in the process of learning. These, politically, would be identified as 'undecided'.

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Now you're just making shit up to fit your narrative. Poor form.

    No, I'm talking about clowns like you.

    May I suggest some more epistemological exercises before you confuse believing with knowing.
    I love exercises.
    What works for you?

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