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  1. #301
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    You got your chocolate in my peanut butter.
    watch out for snakes

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    I was just about to go into the whole how do you define aliens bullshit argument and the BCMtndog does it for me.

    Most theists are quick to alter their definition of “god” when questions become difficult to answer.
    I'm deep in the agnostic terrain close to being an atheist. So "does it even matter" is where I stop and disengage as I don't think it does. Positivism is much more healthy & productive than theism in my view. And it pushes people to both focus on and rely on a semblance of the scientific method rather than imagination. Where it gets tough is interacting with all the people that embrace theistic delusions. That's a much harder question than whether or not theistic outlooks are built on sand.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    What wyeaster said was that nobody knows shit. I’m sure I know that unicorns don’t exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by wyeaster View Post
    i guess you are an aunicornist
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  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB View Post
    You got your chocolate in my peanut butter.
    If only it were that pleasant. Its more like you got your toxic waste in my perfectly happy existence.
    Real VTers tap trees.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    But the correlation between religiosity and intellect is well studied and settled.
    I have my doubts about the intelligence of anyone who takes a 2,000 year old book literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    The bigger issue is how to get them out of politics and away from our laws. I don't have a problem with personal faith until it interferes in the public sphere. It's funny how many ignorant people get all riled up about the possibility of "Sharia Law" in this country and don't see how the outsized influence of Evangelical christians is leading us to a similar end result, if unchecked. Aka The christian Taliban. Billy Graham, mentioned earlier in this thread, was very much part of the problem in that regard. Churches that influence politics should lose tax exempt status and their clergy should have to register as lobbyists. It is more than fair given how the right has worked to bust up labor unions based partially on the premise of their political influence.
    Maybe because a lot of those who get riled up about Sharia Law are Evangelical Christians?


    I'm all about freedom of religion. I'm even more about freedom from religion.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    I'm even more about freedom from religion.
    QFT
    Real VTers tap trees.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    Seems like agnosticism, not atheism.
    not quite
    Quote Originally Posted by wyeaster View Post
    i believe gods do not exist.
    This is atheism

    "I don't know whether god(s) exist(s) "
    this is agnosticism


    I can't believe I'm so bored that I ended up here. God help me

  8. #308
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    https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/...re-inaccurate/

    ^ summarizes research about myths concerning agnostics & atheists, presented at Vatican.

    Speaking of the Vatican—behind the scenes, off the record interviews indicate the priestly cognoscenti evolve toward a quasi-agnostic view as they get older. NTTAWWT.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by zede View Post

    This is atheism
    Not quite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  10. #310
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    I'm curious. How do athiests define the god that they don't believe in. I mean, some believers think that the clouds are literally between them and god while others believe in a universal "spirit" as the source of our chaotic order.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    I'm curious. How do athiests define the god that they don't believe in. I mean, some believers think that the clouds are literally between them and god while others believe in a universal "spirit" as the source of our chaotic order.
    That sounds a lot like physics. If laws or behavioral properties of the physical world need to be classified in that context I suppose my gods are math, physics & animal spirits. But there's no universal requirement to classify them like that and it's certainly not a natural way to describe them. Moreso putting them in context for one bent on theistic framing.

    Mandelbrot wrote some interesting stuff about the nature of organization within chaos.

  12. #312
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    How the religious define and dismiss the gods that they don't believe in is probably a more useful question to ask.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  13. #313
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    Thought I already described the believers god spectrum. Use whatever comes to your mind. Just curious as I'm sure there are as many definitions of what god isn't.

    I don't debate this stuff. People can't even define concentration camp and agree these days.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  14. #314
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    There's no need to define what god isn't, but I suppose if that needs explaining at this point, it's too late.
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  15. #315
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    Brilliant. Thanks.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    Brilliant. Thanks.
    What is god?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    I don't have a problem with personal faith until it interferes in the public sphere.
    and I asked ... "Please elaborate."

    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    If you have to ask then you don't get it, and probably never will.
    It doesn't sound like you are saying "church and state". It sounds like you are saying "faith and state".

    So that's why I ask. Because I don't know what you mean and I think a lot of believers, atheists, and agnostics would also want to know what you mean so they can apply that to their belief systems (or non-belief if you look at it that way).

    It is one thing to want administrative and legal seperation. A whole 'nuther matter if you want peacnicks to shut up and go to war or endorse war bills.

    Please clarify, if you don't mind.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    and I asked ... "Please elaborate."



    It doesn't sound like you are saying "church and state". It sounds like you are saying "faith and state".

    So that's why I ask. Because I don't know what you mean and I think a lot of believers, atheists, and agnostics would also want to know what you mean so they can apply that to their belief systems (or non-belief if you look at it that way).

    It is one thing to want administrative and legal seperation. A whole 'nuther matter if you want peacnicks to shut up and go to war or endorse war bills.

    Please clarify, if you don't mind.
    I assumed he meant gay wedding cakes, Hobby Lobby health insurance, the pro "life" movement....
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    What is god?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I'm asking you to tell me what YOU think. Would my response have any weight on your answer? It might and I don't want to skew your thoughts. I'm not debating anything here as my core belief in a "god" is that it is MY core belief and what others believe is interesting and I'm interested in hearing thoughts. I love that line by the priest in Rudy! . "I really only know that there IS a god and that I'm not him".
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    I'm curious. How do athiests define the god that they don't believe in.
    To me God or a god is an entity that can influence the universe in a way that can't be explained by science, i.e. a supernatural force. That would, of course, include areas of science humanity doesn't currently understand.

  21. #321
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    God as a human construct designed to imbue future generations with a respect for the lessons of the past. With the assumption being ppl are too arrogant & stubborn to respect those lessons without relearning them the hard way.

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooley12 View Post
    I'm asking you to tell me what YOU think. Would my response have any weight on your answer? It might and I don't want to skew your thoughts. I'm not debating anything here as my core belief in a "god" is that it is MY core belief and what others believe is interesting and I'm interested in hearing thoughts. I love that line by the priest in Rudy! . "I really only know that there IS a god and that I'm not him".
    You can just say I dont know.

    Enough of the rim jobbing.

    Im asking you a separate, independent question from the current shit show.

    What is god?

    Cant a man of faith like yourself answer such a simple question.


    I dont have an answer and I dont know, which is why I am asking.



    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  23. #323
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    Nowadays there's an obsessive focus with disproving the supernatural when the intent and value of religion was always in terms of guiding behavior towards productive ends (family unit to help foster development & social cohesion as an example). It's highly imperfect as a strategy but that's what the more woke religious types reference in terms of defening their choices.

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    God as a human construct designed to imbue future generations with a respect for the lessons of the past. With the assumption being ppl are too arrogant & stubborn to respect those lessons without relearning them the hard way.
    https://www.npr.org/2019/05/06/72065...ural-evolution

    "But in the last 12,000 years or so, human groups began to expand. It became more difficult to identify and punish the cheaters and free riders. So we needed something big — really big. An epic force that could see what everyone was doing, and enforce the rules. That force, according to social psychologist Azim Shariff, was the popular idea of a "supernatural punisher" – also known as God."

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    Nowadays there's an obsessive focus with disproving the supernatural when the intent and value of religion was always in terms of guiding behavior towards productive ends (family unit to help foster development & social cohesion as an example). It's highly imperfect as a strategy but that's what the more woke religious types reference in terms of defening their choices.
    The problem with this is at the end of the day most religions are couching this guiding behavior as something some supernatural being or beings is telling us we should do or else we'll be smote down, not get into heaven, etc.

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