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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater View Post
    Can we all agree to that?
    Ahahahahahahahahaha. Hold on, let me catch my breath. Ahahahahahahahaha.

    We're at a point in this country where you couldn't get a consensus on the fact that snow is frozen water, so good luck with that.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peruvian View Post
    Campaign finance reform is dead. The Supremes killed it in 2010.



    these chicks? Didn’t know they wielded that type of power. .....



  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    There's a difference between obscenely illegal and corrupt and failure to represent the low income constituents over the high income, high level donor constituents. It may not matter to you but it does to me. Protecting Social Security, Medicare, womens rights, gay rights, etc still matters and is still very different between the GOP and Democratic administration agendas.
    Dems are like diluted republicans. Just palatable enough not to be overthrown. It's a calculation, or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater View Post
    How about we just start with term limits and campaign finance reform? Can we all agree to that?
    YES

  4. #79
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    Term limits move the nexus of power from elected politicians towards lobbyists and ex-politicians. What is needed are voters effecting term limits and so whats necessary is more competitive districts. Reduce gerrymandering, and get your local opposition party(s) to put good candidates on the ballot.

  5. #80
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    Is there any way to make lobbying a crime punishable by death? Of all things wrong with this country, lobbying seems to be one of the most insidious. By undermining the voice of the electorate you suppress participation & it spirals from there. Elections are pointless if some clown can step in and drive the agenda.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    Term limits move the nexus of power from elected politicians towards lobbyists and ex-politicians. What is needed are voters effecting term limits and so whats necessary is more competitive districts. Reduce gerrymandering, and get your local opposition party(s) to put good candidates on the ballot.
    This.

    Plus term limits would create a system of perpetual rookies. There are (a few) veteran politicians who are delivering for their constituents.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    Friend of mines father died recently. He was teenager in Nazi Germany. Story his son told was that kids would go face a teacher one on one. In his case the teacher threw a pile of change on the table and he had count the change visually and give a quick answer. Answer right and it was academics, answer wrong and it was trade school.
    A friend was asked this in a job interview: What's half of half of one and a half?

  7. #82
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    .375 or .5 or .75

    The problem with gerrymandering is the same people who would have to vote for a law against it are in congress because of it. We need a constitutional amendment.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    This.

    Plus term limits would create a system of perpetual rookies. There are (a few) veteran politicians who are delivering for their constituents.



    A friend was asked this in a job interview: What's half of half of one and a half?
    3/8ths? half of half is a quarter plus 1/8th=3/8ths..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  9. #84
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    Do you...have any eights

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    Is there any way to make lobbying a crime punishable by death? Of all things wrong with this country, lobbying seems to be one of the most insidious. By undermining the voice of the electorate you suppress participation & it spirals from there. Elections are pointless if some clown can step in and drive the agenda.
    Personally, I love the idea. And I like Warren.

    But this:

    Michael Bennet and Elizabeth Warren want members of Congress to ban themselves from ever lobbying after they leave office. Here’s why it’ll never happen.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...n-2020/590182/
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  11. #86
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    My friend phrased it as three eighths, and they seemed to like that answer, but he didn't get the job.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    Is there any way to make lobbying a crime punishable by death? Of all things wrong with this country, lobbying seems to be one of the most insidious. By undermining the voice of the electorate you suppress participation & it spirals from there. Elections are pointless if some clown can step in and drive the agenda.

    How do you ban lobbying without banning all constituents from communicating with their elected reps?

    Example - I consult for a company that makes equipment for indoor plant cultivation. I just sent Rep Blumenauer an email asking he seek a minor amendment to proposed SAFE Banking Act that would allow my client to be protected just like our cannabis-producing customers. Would also apply to landlords that rent to cannabis grows, and a lot of other businesses.

    Is that lobbying?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    How do you ban lobbying without banning all constituents from communicating with their elected reps?
    You would have to regulate the channels of access these constituents have to the lawmakers. Every citizen and company gets equal time/access to pre set meeting times, town halls, etc. No more private meetings set aside for large donors. That would probably mean lotteries and other methods to divvy up the times available on the law maker's schedule. It would also probably be tied to campaign finance reform to eliminate the large donations altogether.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    How do you ban lobbying without banning all constituents from communicating with their elected reps?

    Example - I consult for a company that makes equipment for indoor plant cultivation. I just sent Rep Blumenauer an email asking he seek a minor amendment to proposed SAFE Banking Act that would allow my client to be protected just like our cannabis-producing customers. Would also apply to landlords that rent to cannabis grows, and a lot of other businesses.

    Is that lobbying?
    I don't know. The exchange of value is where the influence seems to be problematic. So campaign finance on the front end and post-office appointments to boards, favors that help family, etc on the back end. In general, the concept of someone being paid specifically to influence the action of a legislator seems odious. In practice your example is innocuous but if it opens the door to those things above it's destructive overall. I see the influence of an individual as legitimate - you writing to Rep. B personally - whereas the "on behalf of company X, who stands to benefit if you would simply do Y" seems to be where the ethics fall apart. Where do you think the slippery slope starts?

  15. #90
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    I wrote on behalf of my client, so looks like I’m already sliding down at least a green circle slope.

    Agreed that much of lobbying is odious, but finding where to draw the line is tough

    And getting a Congress critter to vote to make it harder to finance a campaign just ain’t gonna happen. McCain and Feingold tried for years and failed. The current crop of Congress has way less spine

  16. #91
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    As long as the vast majority of citizens refuse to look beyond what their team tells them and call things that disagree with their beliefs Fake News we are fucked.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    As long as the vast majority of citizens refuse to look beyond what their team tells them and call things that disagree with their beliefs Fake News we are fucked.
    Back to the nationwide dumbing down of the general public thanks to 20 plus years of horrible public education and exponential cost increase of private and college educational opportunities. Unless that changes, it's not just fucked, it will keep getting worse and worse..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    As long as the vast majority of citizens refuse to look beyond what their team tells them and call things that disagree with their beliefs Fake News we are fucked.
    One of the most brilliant political maneuvers in centuries was to start covering the same news events differently to convince people there is no such thing as factual information...and that their gut feelings are more important than difficult, challenging, uncomfortable processes of discovery.

    Telling poor uncomfortable pissed-off people their enemy is other poor pissed-off people so they fight each other. The awful douchebags pull the strings and the fucking idiots march into battle. It’s grim.

  19. #94
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    ^^which is why it circles back around to education, and why you keep hearing spending money on it it doesn't work - because it does and that fact threatens the douchebags' ability to keep controlling people, and those people control the media.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    What's half of half of one and a half?
    A. half of (half of one and a half)= .5 x .75 = .375

    B. half of (half of one) and a half= .5 x (.5 + .5) = .5

    C. (half of half of one) and a half= .25 + .5 = .75

    All are correct. Question is imprecise.

  21. #96
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    Bromontane - have you ever volunteered or done gov work? Building palatable solutions for all is largely thankless and unprofitable.
    Are there problems with many of the candidates and people out there in government? Sure, but don't let perfect be the enemy of good or better.
    Throwing your hands up and saying they're all bad is willful ignorance.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    Bromontane - have you ever volunteered or done gov work? Building palatable solutions for all is largely thankless and unprofitable.
    Are there problems with many of the candidates and people out there in government? Sure, but don't let perfect be the enemy of good or better.
    Throwing your hands up and saying they're all bad is willful ignorance.
    good and better is why we are where we are

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    Bromontane - have you ever volunteered or done gov work? Building palatable solutions for all is largely thankless and unprofitable.
    Are there problems with many of the candidates and people out there in government? Sure, but don't let perfect be the enemy of good or better.
    Throwing your hands up and saying they're all bad is willful ignorance.
    Volunteer work yes but no direct govt work (though my s.o. is in govt service). A brother works in policy for the federal govt & he just visited earlier this year. So I have an idea of how it's more complex than prior posts might suggest. My brother spends much of his time running policy proposals through political, economic & outcome filters. When that's done there's usually very little leftover. Maybe most concerning is watching someone I know to have good character, intentions, education & power fall into the same, tired pattern of accepting things like political unpopularity as a proposal-killer rather than taking risks (gotta mind the career). Even with failure, there're lessons. But, at least on a Federal level, things are too dysfunctional to allow the healthy dynamic of experimentation and learning to take root. If there is no room for a virtuous cycle like goal setting, executing, evaluating & improving then the solution seems to be disengagement & hedging wherever possible. Support the AOCs of the world but keep expectations anchored to the floor.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    ^^which is why it circles back around to education, and why you keep hearing spending money on it it doesn't work - because it does and that fact threatens the douchebags' ability to keep controlling people, and those people control the media.
    effort, not education. the effort required to acquire new information and the effort required to interpret it and change your opinions when information renders prior beliefs outdated.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    One of the most brilliant political maneuvers in centuries was to start covering the same news events differently to convince people there is no such thing as factual information...and that their gut feelings are more important than difficult, challenging, uncomfortable processes of discovery.
    "Truthiness," as explained 14 years ago:

    http://www.cc.com/video-clips/63ite2...d---truthiness
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

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