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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    Too bad Frank hit that wall as New Shit comes to light.

    Abstract:


    The human gut microbiome is linked to many states of human health and disease1. The metabolic repertoire of the gut microbiome is vast, but the health implications of these bacterial pathways are poorly understood. In this study, we identify a link between members of the genus Veillonella and exercise performance. We observed an increase in Veillonella relative abundance in marathon runners postmarathon and isolated a strain of Veillonella atypica from stool samples. Inoculation of this strain into mice significantly increased exhaustive treadmill run time. Veillonella utilize lactate as their sole carbon source, which prompted us to perform a shotgun metagenomic analysis in a cohort of elite athletes, finding that every gene in a major pathway metabolizing lactate to propionate is at higher relative abundance postexercise. Using 13C3-labeled lactate in mice, we demonstrate that serum lactate crosses the epithelial barrier into the lumen of the gut. We also show that intrarectal instillation of propionate is sufficient to reproduce the increased treadmill run time performance observed with V. atypica gavage. Taken together, these studies reveal that V. atypica improves run time via its metabolic conversion of exercise-induced lactate into propionate, thereby identifying a natural, microbiome-encoded enzymatic process that enhances athletic performance.
    So, eat shit, and win?
    ˇÓrale, vato!

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viva View Post
    So, eat shit, and win?
    I think you need to stuff the shit up your ass. I can pretty much promise that people are already lining up for a shit transplant. It's less risky than cutting corners on a bike or subway. Plus there is no way to test for illicit shit. Kind of like this:



    You can't really dust for vomit.

  3. #78
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    https://www.marathoninvestigation.com

    Not sure anyone has posted this link yet. It's worth a look.

  4. #79
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    Are pace mats expensive?

    Seems a marathon could just put one down every mile or so - then the trying and get on and off the course in time would end up taking more time than just running between them.

    Of just a gps for everyone.

    Or if you want to run Boston say - you have to send them your official time and the .gpx file for the race you did it.

  5. #80
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    Geeze, the pics of him on the bike in '14 at the sanfran marathon are pretty damning.
    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
    Cletus: Duly noted.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angle Parking View Post
    https://www.marathoninvestigation.com

    Not sure anyone has posted this link yet. It's worth a look.
    only in the original post

    Quote Originally Posted by LHutz Esq View Post
    Are pace mats expensive?

    Seems a marathon could just put one down every mile or so - then the trying and get on and off the course in time would end up taking more time than just running between them.

    Of just a gps for everyone.

    Or if you want to run Boston say - you have to send them your official time and the .gpx file for the race you did it.
    ya lets make an expensive race even more expensive.

    They already have pace mats every 5-10k in most races. I didn't track the marathon I ran, just a wrist watch, some gels and split times written on my arm to make sure I was on pace.

    I think most people that run races are doing it for themselves so all this policing isn't really needed. I mean unless your Kenyan and winning marathons, no one gives a shit what your marathon time was. (well I guess other runners might)
    Last edited by BRUTAH; 07-11-2019 at 01:32 PM.

  7. #82
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    put the runners on the blockchain

    *ducks airborne shoe*

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRUTAH View Post
    I think most people that run races are doing it for themselves so all this policing isn't really needed. I mean unless your Kenyan and winning marathons, no one gives a shit what your marathon time was. (well I guess other runners might)
    Gotta have your best marathon time in your Strava profile for all your followers to see.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by LHutz Esq View Post
    Are pace mats expensive?
    Quote Originally Posted by BRUTAH View Post
    They already have pace mats every 5-10k in most races.
    Or...as others suggested, just move them around every year:

    Year 1: 5K, 10K, 15K, etc.
    Year 2: 3K, 8K, 13K, etc.
    Year 3: 5K, 7.5K, 12.5K, 22.5K, 25K, etc.

    A big part of Frank's ability to cheat was his familiarity with the location and where the time mats were every year.
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    No thanks. I'll stick with porn. - Benny

  10. #85
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    He wouldn't have won on a treadmill..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Highly unlikely he was legit, times were just too fast to be believable in the face of the evidence to the contrary. I suppose there's a shred of possibility, but Occam's Razor and all. You have to genetically gifted and dedicated as hell to run sub-3. I'll take Door #1 for why he self-immolated.
    Unless he was an elite runner when he was young I give it a zero possibility. You don't just become an elite athlete at 60.

    I've got a friend who is absolutely the best swimmer in the world his age (65ish). This guy won an Olympic medal in 1976 and just hasn't gotten slower to the degree normal people have. His pedigree is obvious: he's just always been an elite swimmer. You don't just burst on the scene and set world records, even if it is in a 'slower' age group.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Unless he was an elite runner when he was young I give it a zero possibility. You don't just become an elite athlete at 60.
    ORLY?

    I see nothing that dictates the need to be WR fast in say your 20-30's, in order to be a WR holder in the 60+ age groups. Truth is most of those fast young people burn out before they become fast old people. The evidence against Frank is pretty telling, but it is not out of the realm to believe that dedicated training could increase his times from 3:30 to closer to the 3 hr limit.

    For example, looking at the current record holder in that 70-74 age group, Gene Dykes:

    "Dykes has become one of the most prolific and successful septuagenarian racers of all time, winning multiple masters national championships, setting a number of national records, becoming the oldest person ever to run the Triple Crown of 200s (three 200-mile races in a single year), and achieving a marathon PR of 2:54:23 at 70 years old.

    But Dykes is just hitting his stride; he didn’t run his first marathon until he was 58. “I was always a jogger to stay in shape, but I never ran hard until I retired at 64,” Dykes says. “Turns out, when you have a lot of time on your hands, you can run a lot more.”
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  13. #88
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    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  14. #89
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    I thought Dykes Gene was on the US-W soccer team?

  15. #90
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    [QUOTE=BRUTAH;5710994]only in the original post

    The marathoninvestigation pages were indeed posted in the original post. My bad. I linked it because I strayed beyond the Mezza specific pages and was kind of blown away by the apparent extent of cheating in marathons and other events. marathoninvestigation has ultra running and triathlon investigations as well. There's even an article bringing into question some of Kilian Jornet's accomplishments.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angle Parking View Post
    There's even an article bringing into question some of Kilian Jornet's accomplishments.
    Link? Now THAT would be a big deal.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Link? Now THAT would be a big deal.
    Dont bother. The guy that wrote the "investigation" is a crackpot from the PNW that for many years harrassed various climbers in regards to speed records on the Cascade volcanoes. He was so bad/obnoxious even his name was banned from prominent climbing forum.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by LHutz Esq View Post
    Are pace mats expensive?

    Seems a marathon could just put one down every mile or so - then the trying and get on and off the course in time would end up taking more time than just running between them.

    Of just a gps for everyone.

    Or if you want to run Boston say - you have to send them your official time and the .gpx file for the race you did it.
    I'm still mostly of the view that this isn't that big a problem; nearly all race runners are chasing whatever challenge they care to for personal reasons, not for "bragging rights". That, and no one cares all that much what anyone else's race time is.

    But, since you asked, we're actually very close to where optical systems can cheaply track runners much more intensively. Race timing and data handling is currently contracted out (mostly) to the "chip" (and electronic mats) system providers. Current tech (just read this in Slate a few days ago) would allow them to additionally include automated video camera checks, of the majority of runners who don't have their race numbers half-crumpled into their shorts, for a very modest one-time investment in cameras, plus a few hundred dollars a year in software licenses. The only thing stopping them is that they'd need to spend some real money on programmers to do the DB etc system integration.

    Failing that, just putting up a few time-coded HD video cameras on the course (and the bigger races probably already do), not networked to a DB or anything, should make it relatively easy to confirm that award contenders, and anyone else who gets red-flagged by the chip splits, most likely did the race for real.

  19. #94
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    I was thinking of all those folks chasing a Boston qualifier - every few years or so the times are lowered - how much of that is because of Frank types? Seems a bit unfair to those people to not at least try and catch the cheaters considering what they are paying to enter some of these big marathons. I found a chip mat on the googles for $1000 bucks or so- so an extra couple pennies for each of 20,000 or so that run the LA Marathon?

  20. #95
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    Why can't they just require all competitors to wear a small GPS device that allows the officials to see the route they traveled in real time and review the track taken before certifying the times? Certainly they could employ a little AI to flag anomalies in the data for 20 thousand entrants and manually validate the top 100 or so in each major category.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  21. #96
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    Eh, not even AI; just a half page of Python script would flag the few dozen people worthy of a video check. Which would also be easy, because a strong race pace is an even, predictable race pace; a simple calculation would indicate what time to expect someone at a particular location, and the runner should show up on video within a couple minutes of that. Very doable; I'm sure some are already doing something like this, and the others should step it up. And much of this could easily be automated with cheap OCR systems.

  22. #97
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    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

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