Frank Meza...marathon runner.

[Dantheman]

Highly unlikely he was legit, times were just too fast to be believable in the face of the evidence to the contrary. I suppose there's a shred of possibility, but Occam's Razor and all. You have to genetically gifted and dedicated as hell to run sub-3. I'll take Door #1 for why he self-immolated.

[bobz]

It's funny b/c I hike mountains pretty often. Goals are good. I set goals on a regular basis. But I don't fetishize and prioritize goals that put my health at risk in order to procure social points (like 100-milers, getting sub-X in a marathon, etc.). It's very much en vogue to risk your health to participate in things that serve mostly the ego while reinforcing the idea that taking arbitrary risks in order to be included in XYZ elite group is a wise or admirable thing to do. The real value in exercising, training, staying healthy is the satisfaction from within - not in crossing the arbitrary line. After you're done with XYZ objective what's left? You still have to live with yourself. Did you enjoy the process of exercising? Is your process sustainable over 20, 30, 50 years? Is this activity something that's going to help buoy your mindset against the challenges of life in the long term? If all that time was spent reaching for a medal whose value is illusory, while risking your health or generally being unsustainable, I'm just not convinced it's the right approach.

Obviously, this isn't a blanket categorization of things like marathons; it's more a critique of the popularization of things that involve more personal risk than benefit. And a question about whether or not the value lies in the discipline and the process versus arbitrary social achievements defined by the external world.

As the great philosopher once said: what is life? baby don't hurt me, no more

Well, short version: You don't understand serious running, which, as I said previous post, is pretty well analogous to the common-sense things that people say who don't understand hiking and mountaineering. Which is okay; we all get to immerse ourselves in the things that we choose to, and in doing so we miss out on other things. Apparently, Frank Meza didn't understand running either; he too thought it was about "bragging rights", and so he went straight for that, skipping the parts where he'd risk discomfort and perhaps injury.

As for running injuries: I had my share, which mostly meant that there were a number of weeks, here and there, when I couldn't run, and instead I was very roughly as mobile and physically capable as a non-injured non-runner. Meanwhile, various cow-orkers would wind up wearing crutches because, lacking musculature and a mind trained for physicality, they'd mess themselves up stepping off of curbs. (Full disclosure: I'm currently injured, knee-scooter by my side, from a fall while backpacking; ugh. More risk than benefit? I guess so, but it sure was a wonderful seven days up to that point. And I'm going back there as soon as I'm able.)

[iceman]

I definitely don't understand serious running that's for sure. It just seemed to me, as a human, that if you know you cheated and then you got busted, you'd probably just take your lumps, not fucking kill yourself over it. It seems odd that he killed himself over it is all. Shit, Rosie Ruiz is still walking around on the planet, and even I know who she is.

[billyk]

There was overwhelming evidence that he had cheated in multiple races, including this statement when he was disqualified from the 2019 LA marathon, "The video evidence is confirmed by a credible eyewitness report and our calculation that Dr. Meza’s actual running time for at least one 5K course segment would have had to have been faster than the current 70-74 age group 5K world-record [an impossible feat during a marathon]."

It's sad he felt the need to cheat himself all these years and then ultimately cheated himself out of the rest of his life, cheated his family, wife, kids and grandkids.

And he ran those record times while having to leave the course multiple times to urinate.

[iceman]

Suppose I'm just not a true scotsman!

If it's nae Scottish it's crap.

[bobz]

What if the guy was legit? Is that even possible?

No. Fucking. Way. His times were bleeding edge for a 70-year-old, and even if he was a secret rock-star elite runner capable of a near-world-record time, anything but a dead-even pace (he "ran" faster than a 6-minute pace in some sections) would have destroyed him if such splits were even possible for someone his age.

Plus (though they don't have time to do this for every racer), any not very exhaustive review of available video footage would have shown him absent (and/or not running at close to a 7-minute pace) at certain points in the race. If race officials DQ'd him, you can take to the bank that he cheated.

[Mofro261]

Too bad Frank hit that wall as New Shit comes to light.

Abstract:


The human gut microbiome is linked to many states of human health and disease1. The metabolic repertoire of the gut microbiome is vast, but the health implications of these bacterial pathways are poorly understood. In this study, we identify a link between members of the genus Veillonella and exercise performance. We observed an increase in Veillonella relative abundance in marathon runners postmarathon and isolated a strain of Veillonella atypica from stool samples. Inoculation of this strain into mice significantly increased exhaustive treadmill run time. Veillonella utilize lactate as their sole carbon source, which prompted us to perform a shotgun metagenomic analysis in a cohort of elite athletes, finding that every gene in a major pathway metabolizing lactate to propionate is at higher relative abundance postexercise. Using 13C3-labeled lactate in mice, we demonstrate that serum lactate crosses the epithelial barrier into the lumen of the gut. We also show that intrarectal instillation of propionate is sufficient to reproduce the increased treadmill run time performance observed with V. atypica gavage. Taken together, these studies reveal that V. atypica improves run time via its metabolic conversion of exercise-induced lactate into propionate, thereby identifying a natural, microbiome-encoded enzymatic process that enhances athletic performance.

[::: :::]

who knew this thread had legs?

that second wind is coming soon

[iceman]

who knew this thread had legs?

that second wind is coming soon

[/threadkill]

[SumJongGuy]

His actions, his real world consequences. Just be glad he didn't decide to take a bunch of other people out with him..

[Viva]

Too bad Frank hit that wall as New Shit comes to light.

Abstract:


The human gut microbiome is linked to many states of human health and disease1. The metabolic repertoire of the gut microbiome is vast, but the health implications of these bacterial pathways are poorly understood. In this study, we identify a link between members of the genus Veillonella and exercise performance. We observed an increase in Veillonella relative abundance in marathon runners postmarathon and isolated a strain of Veillonella atypica from stool samples. Inoculation of this strain into mice significantly increased exhaustive treadmill run time. Veillonella utilize lactate as their sole carbon source, which prompted us to perform a shotgun metagenomic analysis in a cohort of elite athletes, finding that every gene in a major pathway metabolizing lactate to propionate is at higher relative abundance postexercise. Using 13C3-labeled lactate in mice, we demonstrate that serum lactate crosses the epithelial barrier into the lumen of the gut. We also show that intrarectal instillation of propionate is sufficient to reproduce the increased treadmill run time performance observed with V. atypica gavage. Taken together, these studies reveal that V. atypica improves run time via its metabolic conversion of exercise-induced lactate into propionate, thereby identifying a natural, microbiome-encoded enzymatic process that enhances athletic performance.

So, eat shit, and win?

[I've seen black diamonds!]

So, eat shit, and win?

I think you need to stuff the shit up your ass. I can pretty much promise that people are already lining up for a shit transplant. It's less risky than cutting corners on a bike or subway. Plus there is no way to test for illicit shit. Kind of like this:



You can't really dust for vomit.

[Angle Parking]

https://www.marathoninvestigation.com

Not sure anyone has posted this link yet. It's worth a look.

[LHutz Esq]

Are pace mats expensive?

Seems a marathon could just put one down every mile or so - then the trying and get on and off the course in time would end up taking more time than just running between them.

Of just a gps for everyone.

Or if you want to run Boston say - you have to send them your official time and the .gpx file for the race you did it.

[Cruiser]

Geeze, the pics of him on the bike in '14 at the sanfran marathon are pretty damning.

[brutah]

https://www.marathoninvestigation.com

Not sure anyone has posted this link yet. It's worth a look.

only in the original post

Are pace mats expensive?

Seems a marathon could just put one down every mile or so - then the trying and get on and off the course in time would end up taking more time than just running between them.

Of just a gps for everyone.

Or if you want to run Boston say - you have to send them your official time and the .gpx file for the race you did it.

ya lets make an expensive race even more expensive.

They already have pace mats every 5-10k in most races. I didn't track the marathon I ran, just a wrist watch, some gels and split times written on my arm to make sure I was on pace.

I think most people that run races are doing it for themselves so all this policing isn't really needed. I mean unless your Kenyan and winning marathons, no one gives a shit what your marathon time was. (well I guess other runners might)

[Dantheman]

I think most people that run races are doing it for themselves so all this policing isn't really needed. I mean unless your Kenyan and winning marathons, no one gives a shit what your marathon time was. (well I guess other runners might)

Gotta have your best marathon time in your Strava profile for all your followers to see.

[smartyiak]

Are pace mats expensive?

They already have pace mats every 5-10k in most races.

Or...as others suggested, just move them around every year:

Year 1: 5K, 10K, 15K, etc.
Year 2: 3K, 8K, 13K, etc.
Year 3: 5K, 7.5K, 12.5K, 22.5K, 25K, etc.

A big part of Frank's ability to cheat was his familiarity with the location and where the time mats were every year.

[SumJongGuy]

He wouldn't have won on a treadmill..

[The AD]

Highly unlikely he was legit, times were just too fast to be believable in the face of the evidence to the contrary. I suppose there's a shred of possibility, but Occam's Razor and all. You have to genetically gifted and dedicated as hell to run sub-3. I'll take Door #1 for why he self-immolated.

Unless he was an elite runner when he was young I give it a zero possibility. You don't just become an elite athlete at 60.

I've got a friend who is absolutely the best swimmer in the world his age (65ish). This guy won an Olympic medal in 1976 and just hasn't gotten slower to the degree normal people have. His pedigree is obvious: he's just always been an elite swimmer. You don't just burst on the scene and set world records, even if it is in a 'slower' age group.

[Mofro261]

Unless he was an elite runner when he was young I give it a zero possibility. You don't just become an elite athlete at 60.

ORLY?

I see nothing that dictates the need to be WR fast in say your 20-30's, in order to be a WR holder in the 60+ age groups. Truth is most of those fast young people burn out before they become fast old people. The evidence against Frank is pretty telling, but it is not out of the realm to believe that dedicated training could increase his times from 3:30 to closer to the 3 hr limit.

For example, looking at the current record holder in that 70-74 age group, Gene Dykes:

"Dykes has become one of the most prolific and successful septuagenarian racers of all time, winning multiple masters national championships, setting a number of national records, becoming the oldest person ever to run the Triple Crown of 200s (three 200-mile races in a single year), and achieving a marathon PR of 2:54:23 at 70 years old.

But Dykes is just hitting his stride; he didn’t run his first marathon until he was 58. “I was always a jogger to stay in shape, but I never ran hard until I retired at 64,” Dykes says. “Turns out, when you have a lot of time on your hands, you can run a lot more.”

[SumJongGuy]

[Angle Parking]

[QUOTE=BRUTAH;5710994]only in the original post

The marathoninvestigation pages were indeed posted in the original post. My bad. I linked it because I strayed beyond the Mezza specific pages and was kind of blown away by the apparent extent of cheating in marathons and other events. marathoninvestigation has ultra running and triathlon investigations as well. There's even an article bringing into question some of Kilian Jornet's accomplishments.

[Dantheman]

There's even an article bringing into question some of Kilian Jornet's accomplishments.

Link? Now THAT would be a big deal.

[John_B]

Link? Now THAT would be a big deal.

Dont bother. The guy that wrote the "investigation" is a crackpot from the PNW that for many years harrassed various climbers in regards to speed records on the Cascade volcanoes. He was so bad/obnoxious even his name was banned from prominent climbing forum.