Pieps DSP Pro broken switch

[~mikey b]

out of warranty = out of luck?

[lpkdz]

I guess. Folks earlier this year were able to get theirs upgraded, but now that it’s turned in to a thing apparently that’s not happening. Though one dude said it took 1 year for him to get a replacement beacon.

[fleaches]

The various accounts are confusing on that.
Plus the auto revert function status on the model at issue is somewhat confusing:
https://beaconreviews.com/Specs_PiepsDSPSport.php
"Auto Revert: Both the Sport and Pro support auto-reverting from search to send, but unlike other transceivers that support this feature, this can be enabled/disabled only at a Pieps service center. When enabled, "AR" blinks in the display while transmitting. The Sport auto-reverts after 4 minutes; the Pro auto-reverts after 1 minute without significant motion. These beacons give plenty of warning, both before reverting and after, so you don't mistakenly revert during a search."

You are right this is super confusing, I always thought revert to send was standard, and it is prominently mentioned as a safety feature of the beacons, but at least this wildsnow article claims that it is disabled by default on PIEPS/Black Diamond https://www.wildsnow.com/25679/avala...vert-transmit/

Also did not realize auto revert was such a contentious issue.

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[I've seen black diamonds!]

I posted this in the other Pieps DSP thread, but figure it belongs here too:

With the beacon inserted in the harness as shown in the manual, if you apply pressure to the buckle (which sits directly on top of the "lock") it becomes easy to slide the switch from send to off. Here is a vid.

Note that the switch on my beacon can't be easily forced from SEND to OFF. It is solid. But the amount of pressure to "unlock" the switch is quite light.

[Jonathan S.]

I posted this in the other Pieps DSP thread, but figure it belongs here too:

With the beacon inserted in the harness as shown in the manual, if you apply pressure to the buckle (which sits directly on top of the "lock") it becomes easy to slide the switch from send to off. Here is a vid.

Note that the switch on my beacon can't be easily forced from SEND to OFF. It is solid. But the amount of pressure to "unlock" the switch is quite light.

In that video, the user has inserted the beacon into the harness face out so that the lock switch is easier for him to depress, then he simultaneously moves the switch.
Such a series of deliberate actions could achieve a similar result with many other switch designs.
And his actions in that video are not a realistic simulation of what could actually happen in real use.
I'm not saying that the switch design is infallible, but that video is extremely contrived.

[~mikey b]

yeah and I just don't see that happening in an avalanche

[Meadow Skipper]

Pieps offering “an upgrade.”
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGlBzHUlNL7/

[~mikey b]

I like my upgraded Pieps. I think it’s good they’ll replace ones with the old style switch.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

In that video, the user has inserted the beacon into the harness face out so that the lock switch is easier for him to depress, then he simultaneously moves the switch.
Such a series of deliberate actions could achieve a similar result with many other switch designs.
And his actions in that video are not a realistic simulation of what could actually happen in real use.
I'm not saying that the switch design is infallible, but that video is extremely contrived.

yeah and I just don't see that happening in an avalanche

The user in the video is me. I respect you both a great deal, and I know you are both more knowledgable than me on the subject of beacons and avalanches in general. But I think you've missed the significance of the video. So I made a better one:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e2atL2zKM5p3XDWRA

This time I put it in the harness with the screen facing my body (even though the user manual shows the beacon in the harness screen-out). Then I rubbed the whole thing firmly against my ribs. This was enough to unlock the switch and move the slide out of the lock position. Then I slid it into the off position. The sequence is important here. I did not slide the switch while depressing the lock against my ribs. I slid the switch afterwards. Rubbing it against my ribs was enough to depress the lock and move the slide enough that it did not re-lock itself. I repeated this result 8 times before recording the video.

In my opinion applying the right kind of pressure to unlock the switch while touring is a realistic scenario. And bumping that switch into OFF at some point over the next 10,000 steps is also not outlandish. Will it happen every time out. Of course not. When I read through the initial social media storm I guessed that most of the reported failures were the result of user error. I still think that user error is the most likely cause of someone discovering their DSP is off at the end of the day of skiing. But I'm now convinced some users have handled their non-broken beacons properly and found it off later through no fault of their own.

[~mikey b]

you’re doing fine bud

no dick waving here

[Jonathan S.]

[...] So I made a better one:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/e2atL2zKM5p3XDWRA[...]

Okay, now that video is definitely convincing. Thanks for taking the time to record and post it. Big contrast to all the other videos I've watched (something like half-a-dozen so far).

I've been strolling through memory lane now and thinking about the switch quirks on the many different models I've used throughout the years.
But at least all of those quirks were obvious after just a bit of use.
By contrast, when I had the DSP Pro, I never suspected that something like that in your video could ever happen to me. But apparently it easily could have...

[~mikey b]

better video


that might be how they broke


time for an update

[Danno]

What does "we'll upgrade you" mean? Free, or do I have to pay something?

[SkiLyft]

What does "we'll upgrade you" mean? Free, or do I have to pay something?

Just sent an email inquiring.

Seems if your beacon is under a certain age free if it’s older you will owe something.

Will update.


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[nickwm21]

I changed my mind. This is a concern.

After watching some videos, I played with the beacon again. I put some slight pressure on the tab and some slight pressure on the slider and I can pop it from Send into Search. I could even do it with the beacon in its harness, both face in and face out with just pressure on the face of the beacon and a slight poke on the slider....

I emailed BD for a replacement.


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[Speedfreak]

My DSP sport is brand new (bought in 2019 as a backup and used twice). I can't push the slide from send to search when I'm holding it in my hand. Super solid in that scenario.

However, as soon as I put the DSP in the harness and put the harness on I can slide it with minimal pressure. I don't even have to rub it around like ISBD did. Seems the harness puts just enough pressure on the lock button to unlock the slide. Scary stuff.

[Jonathan S.]

My DSP sport is brand new (bought in 2019 as a backup and used twice). I can't push the slide from send to search when I'm holding it in my hand. Super solid in that scenario.

However, as soon as I put the DSP in the harness and put the harness on I can slide it with minimal pressure. I don't even have to rub it around like ISBD did. Seems the harness puts just enough pressure on the lock button to unlock the slide. Scary stuff.

That seems to describe what is happening here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGnq_GFjoeD/
Although be sure to listen to all his commentary at the end after the demonstration, since he adds that he had another DSP beacon -- with the same switch design -- which did not display this behavior.

[doebedoe]

This is a pretty simple and illuminating video.... depress the locking mech by less than a human hair and it switches.

[timmaio]

This is a pretty simple and illuminating video.... depress the locking mech by less than a human hair and it switches.

Interesting but there is no indication that there was no pressure on the button when the height gauge was zeroed. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem, but I am saying that the video doesn't show rigorous inquiry to my mind

[abraham]

Yeah showing that you can slide the beacon under first would be useful. They have a decent setup to make the measurement, but there's always going to be an actuation distance.
0.005" from the neutral position is one thing, the same distance to clear the latch from a partially depressed button is different.

[::: :::]

that was my impression too

[Jonathan S.]

Yeah showing that you can slide the beacon under first would be useful.[...]

Agreed. And furthermore, seems like the video is showing the exact opposite: he attempts to move the switch, which doesn't move, but the beacon doesn't move either.

[galibier_numero_un]

Agreed. And furthermore, seems like the video is showing the exact opposite: he attempts to move the switch, which doesn't move, but the beacon doesn't move either.

Just a guess ... that the beacon was anchored to the table with double sided tape?

... Thom

[3PinGrin]

Yeah showing that you can slide the beacon under first would be useful. They have a decent setup to make the measurement, but there's always going to be an actuation distance.
0.005" from the neutral position is one thing, the same distance to clear the latch from a partially depressed button is different.

I doubt someone would go to that level of effort without starting at a baseline of 0 pressure exerted on the switch. Unless there is an ulterior motive to "prove" it's a problem, but who knows.

Finally got my hands on my ex wife's DSP Sport. It takes damn little pressure to move the switch!

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Edit to add: I do agree that it would have been good to mention, and better yet demonstrate, that baseline was with 0 pressure exerted on the switch.

[Peruvian]

i’m not sure if this has been shared yet.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGk2CDRn...=1g65qrgmws0v2