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  1. #51
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    Dying to live.

    Bullfighting?
    Darwin?
    Climbing?
    watch out for snakes

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    https://historydaily.org/mt-everest-...d-as-landmarks



    Nope. They don't have to leave them die. Why even try and chance at saving a life when I can be a MOFO and bag another peak? Selfish pricks them all. If someone's dying, help them down even if it means you have to try another day. Take a chance and see if you can save a life. There are lots of down-and-outs that have in fact lived another day on Everest. If you can't save them, then carry them down as far as possible. Help them anyways and give them a good death with care. Yes, be a Mother Theresa not a Mother #$%.
    We've had this conversation before, but, from my understanding, it's hard enough to put one foot in front of the other up there, so, dragging a 150-200 pound human seems basically impossible, right?

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    We've had this conversation before, but, from my understanding, it's hard enough to put one foot in front of the other up there, so, dragging a 150-200 pound human seems basically impossible, right?
    I'd understand if it was someone exhausted on the way down, and can't help for the life of them. But people are being passed on the way up by peak-baggers.

    If someone can wait in a line of 200 people, with a sherpa and extra oxygen tanks, then in my opinion they also have the ability to help a comrade. Think like a US Marine, "no man left behind". If you can drag your own ass up the mountain, then you can help drag someone else ass down the mountain - or at least try, just try, and see if they can be helped with extra oxygen and hydration.

    If you can't help someone for fear of your life, then how the heck are you going to even help yourself to the top at that point?

    The TOWER of BABEL.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    We've had this conversation before, but, from my understanding, it's hard enough to put one foot in front of the other up there, so, dragging a 150-200 pound human seems basically impossible, right?
    Yeah, it's a safety consideration for the guides that would be tasked with carrying down the bodies. Humans are slowly dying on the top ~1,000m of the mountain so the clock is running. Dying to save a dead person is not the best of strategies.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    We've had this conversation before, but, from my understanding, it's hard enough to put one foot in front of the other up there, so, dragging a 150-200 pound human seems basically impossible, right?
    Maybe if youíre by yourself. But youíd most likely be with a climbing group of physically fit people.

  6. #56
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    I'll never understand how you can pass a dying person on the way up and just keep going. On the way down yeah I guess I get it, especially if you're in rough shape yourself.

  7. #57
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    ^^I think it fucks up a lot of guides tbh.

  8. #58
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    Everyone knew the risks when they showed up. Why in the hell should I stop my ascent in an effort to help some stranger? Seriously? What makes any of you think that a climber has some moral obligation to assist in a rescue up there in the "death zone"?

    Fwiw, I'd happily stop my ascent or descent to help my climbing partners as I feel like we made a pact when we teamed up in the first place.
    Brandine: Now Cletus, if I catch you with pig lipstick on your collar one more time you ain't gonna be allowed to sleep in the barn no more!
    Cletus: Duly noted.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    Does your theory apply to tits?
    Les Tetons? I already said it did. : - )

    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    https://historydaily.org/mt-everest-...d-as-landmarks



    Nope. They don't have to leave them die. Why even try and chance at saving a life when I can be a MOFO and bag another peak? Selfish pricks them all. If someone's dying, help them down even if it means you have to try another day. Take a chance and see if you can save a life. There are lots of down-and-outs that have in fact lived another day on Everest. If you can't save them, then carry them down as far as possible. Help them anyways and give them a good death with care. Yes, be a Mother Theresa not a Mother #$%.
    Helping someone down who cannot stand and walk is impossible at that elevation. Even the guides and Sherpas are at their limit just to get themselves up and down. Even if the effort were not overwhelming the time it would take for a team to lower someone with ropes would almost certainly kill the would-be rescuers. Add to that the fact that very few people are thinking clearly at that elevation, even with oxygen. In fact, a number of Sherpas, sent to try to help distressed climbers, have died in the attempt. I'm sure there are situations where someone has been abandoned who could have been helped--maybe they ran out of oxygen and could have been revived by more, but for the most part rescue isn't an option.

    In 1953, on an American expedition to as-yet-unclimbed K2, Art Gilkey was stricken by a blood clot to the lungs high on the mountain. His team mates were attempting to lower him at an agonizingly slow pace and were forced to bivouac in a crevasse. In the morning Gilkey was gone; many think he untied himself and threw himself down the mountain because he knew his friends would die trying to save him. (His body was found 40 years later in a melting glacier at the base of the mountain.)

    It is or should be understood that you make it up and down Everest on your own two feet or not at all.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    Does your theory apply to tits?
    Les Tetons? I already said it did. : - )

    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    https://historydaily.org/mt-everest-...d-as-landmarks



    Nope. They don't have to leave them die. Why even try and chance at saving a life when I can be a MOFO and bag another peak? Selfish pricks them all. If someone's dying, help them down even if it means you have to try another day. Take a chance and see if you can save a life. There are lots of down-and-outs that have in fact lived another day on Everest. If you can't save them, then carry them down as far as possible. Help them anyways and give them a good death with care. Yes, be a Mother Theresa not a Mother #$%.
    Helping someone down who cannot stand and walk is impossible at that elevation. Even the guides and Sherpas are at their limit just to get themselves up and down. Even if the effort were not overwhelming the time it would take for a team to lower someone with ropes would almost certainly kill the would-be rescuers. Add to that the fact that very few people are thinking clearly at that elevation, even with oxygen. In fact, a number of Sherpas, sent to try to help distressed climbers, have died in the attempt. I'm sure there are situations where someone has been abandoned who could have been helped--maybe they ran out of oxygen and could have been revived by more, but for the most part rescue isn't an option. Even at Rocky Mountain elevations evacuating a disabled climber requires time, a large trained team, and/or a helicopter--none of which are available on Everest.

    In 1953, on an American expedition to as-yet-unclimbed K2, Art Gilkey was stricken by a blood clot to the lungs high on the mountain. His team mates were attempting to lower him at an agonizingly slow pace and were forced to bivouac in a crevasse. In the morning Gilkey was gone; many think he untied himself and threw himself down the mountain because he knew his friends would die trying to save him. (His body was found 40 years later in a melting glacier at the base of the mountain.)

    It is or should be understood that you make it up and down Everest on your own two feet or not at all.

    Watch or read Touching the Void.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    Yeah but you've got to walk past (and sometimes sleep next to) all the dead bodies on your way up to see that view <shudder>



    200 Dead, Unrecovered Bodies on Mt. Everest Used as Landmarks





    Rainier is beautiful from the top of Crystal Mt.
    Yeah, My interest drops as soon as dead bodies line the way. Thereís something IMO wrong or disrespectful about it. Oh hereís a dead climber, someoneís loved one, letís step over him/her and keep climbing for the glorious summit. Itís too hard to recover or bury them, so letís push ourselves to deaths door for the summit instead. WTF



    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Les Tetons? I already said it did. : - )



    Helping someone down who cannot stand and walk is impossible at that elevation. Even the guides and Sherpas are at their limit just to get themselves up and down. Even if the effort were not overwhelming the time it would take for a team to lower someone with ropes would almost certainly kill the would-be rescuers. Add to that the fact that very few people are thinking clearly at that elevation, even with oxygen. In fact, a number of Sherpas, sent to try to help distressed climbers, have died in the attempt. I'm sure there are situations where someone has been abandoned who could have been helped--maybe they ran out of oxygen and could have been revived by more, but for the most part rescue isn't an option. Even at Rocky Mountain elevations evacuating a disabled climber requires time, a large trained team, and/or a helicopter--none of which are available on Everest.

    In 1953, on an American expedition to as-yet-unclimbed K2, Art Gilkey was stricken by a blood clot to the lungs high on the mountain. His team mates were attempting to lower him at an agonizingly slow pace and were forced to bivouac in a crevasse. In the morning Gilkey was gone; many think he untied himself and threw himself down the mountain because he knew his friends would die trying to save him. (His body was found 40 years later in a melting glacier at the base of the mountain.)

    It is or should be understood that you make it up and down Everest on your own two feet or not at all.

    Watch or read Touching the Void.
    Why not setup a second line to belay climbers out of the death zone? Surely there is a way given the hoards that are now on that route and the knowledge that this is a common occurrence.

    At what objective point is a person to be left for dead?
    What determines if 'more oxygen' can/not help or some other 'medical advantage' can no longer be used?
    At what DBDP (Dead Body Density Point) does a solution become required for the safety and hygiene of the actual mountain?

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Why not setup a second line to belay climbers out of the death zone? Surely there is a way given the hoards that are now on that route and the knowledge that this is a common occurrence.

    At what objective point is a person to be left for dead?
    What determines if 'more oxygen' can/not help or some other 'medical advantage' can no longer be used?
    At what DBDP (Dead Body Density Point) does a solution become required for the safety and hygiene of the actual mountain?
    If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. It sounds like high altitude alpinism isn't for you.
    Doesn't mean that much to me, to mean that much to you.

  14. #64
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    For the visitors, it's truly the first worldliest of first world problems. I'm far more concerned about the health of the sherpers and guides than their clients.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Why not setup a second line to belay climbers out of the death zone?
    Zip line

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. It sounds like high altitude alpinism isn't for you.
    There isn't anything weak or unworthy about helping others when possible - or looking for solutions to make said possible. It would be told that a lot of the developments that make high alpinism possible were invented out of the desire to help people and make the impossible, possible. 200 people lined up to summit, can't help down a few climbers, is either because they don't have heart or have become so peak-greedy-bagging that they can't communicate to even attempt to help each other. Tower of Babel.

  17. #67
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    Just imagine how bad the crowds would be if there was some Marine like collective pact that everyone should at least attempt a rescue. It would be like those many stories we read of rich gapers just giving up and calling for a meat sled at Vail.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-the-east View Post
    Zip line
    Attach the saucer-boy saucer to their arse and zipline them along. I'm not kidding. Where there is a desire to help, people will find a way that works. Passing people that are struggling on the way up isn't NECESSARY for one's own survival.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-the-east View Post
    Zip line
    Awesome.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Les Tetons? I already said it did. : - )



    Helping someone down who cannot stand and walk is impossible at that elevation. Even the guides and Sherpas are at their limit just to get themselves up and down. Even if the effort were not overwhelming the time it would take for a team to lower someone with ropes would almost certainly kill the would-be rescuers. Add to that the fact that very few people are thinking clearly at that elevation, even with oxygen. In fact, a number of Sherpas, sent to try to help distressed climbers, have died in the attempt. I'm sure there are situations where someone has been abandoned who could have been helped--maybe they ran out of oxygen and could have been revived by more, but for the most part rescue isn't an option. Even at Rocky Mountain elevations evacuating a disabled climber requires time, a large trained team, and/or a helicopter--none of which are available on Everest.

    In 1953, on an American expedition to as-yet-unclimbed K2, Art Gilkey was stricken by a blood clot to the lungs high on the mountain. His team mates were attempting to lower him at an agonizingly slow pace and were forced to bivouac in a crevasse. In the morning Gilkey was gone; many think he untied himself and threw himself down the mountain because he knew his friends would die trying to save him. (His body was found 40 years later in a melting glacier at the base of the mountain.)

    It is or should be understood that you make it up and down Everest on your own two feet or not at all.

    Watch or read Touching the Void.
    Yeah, cough, cough, he cut himself free. Um, sure, let's stick to that story.

    Let's do some livin'
    After, we die

  21. #71
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    People dying on Mt. Everest, what else is new

    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Attach the saucer-boy saucer to their arse and zipline them along. I'm not kidding. Where there is a desire to help, people will find a way that works. Passing people that are struggling on the way up isn't NECESSARY for one's own survival.
    If one of those people struggling accepts the help of anyone - on the way up or down - they are putting that other person life at risk too just so that they may have a chance at survival - because of the choice they made to travel in the death zone. That seems worse than someone not stopping to help. Sorry, pal. Have a nice eternity, Everest climber # 47,802. Just keep the line moving or get out of the way

    Reminds of the tripe Krakauer was pushing trying to vilify other climbers just to make his story better.
    Last edited by mcski; 05-25-2019 at 12:47 PM.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB View Post
    Dying to live.

    Bullfighting?
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    Conquistadors of the Useless.
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  23. #73
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    Eh, nobody goes to Everest anymore, too crowded.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Why not setup a second line to belay climbers out of the death zone? Surely there is a way given the hoards that are now on that route and the knowledge that this is a common occurrence.
    So just a long ass rope down the face that they didn't climb up and probably isn't near their camp? I want to make sure I'm getting this correct. Who is tasked with manning the top and the bottom so that these half dead people get down safely? Surely they can't safely rappel or even tie themselves in.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by concretejungle View Post
    So just a long ass rope down the face that they didn't climb up and probably isn't near their camp? I want to make sure I'm getting this correct. Who is tasked with manning the top and the bottom so that these half dead people get down safely? Surely they can't safely rappel or even tie themselves in.
    Sounds like they need to install a magic carpet.

    Hell at the rate people are marching up there in a ridiculous conga line they might as well install escalators both up and down. Seeing that long line of people doesn't put me in mind of a nice climb. I don't go out into nature to stand in a queue.
    Kindness is a bridge between all people

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