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  1. #1
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    Din correction factor - what causes the deviations?

    Pivot 14 bindings about 4 years old. Well used. I never pre-release.
    Just got my setup tested and discovered that my toes needed cranking up 2 DINs to be spec and the heels adjusted down 1/2 a DIN to be spec.
    All this comes at a time when I'm thinking it might be a good idea to get all our skis tested and make sure they are actually calibrated.

    So what causes this? The first thing that comes to mind is aging springs. It doesn't seem to me that ski binding springs would age like that though - most quality springs last a long time even when compressed.

    So what is up - Is there maintenance that needs to be done (lube, cleaning) or adjustment to the assembly?
    Surely a binding, once calibrated can be consistent year-over-year.

    Should bindings be overhauled and reassembled every now and then?

    If the binding gods speak, I'm listening.
    Gravitas, Pietas, Dignitas, Virtus

  2. #2
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    You should be able to twist out of the toes both directions and pop the heels up without too much pain or extraordinary effort. Just tight enough to where you almost can't but can without hurting yourself.

    Shop answer is buy new bindings every 5-10 years. Maggot answer is test them yourself using the above method.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  3. #3
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    ya can test em in a variety of different manners
    with either professional calibrated equipment or the jabroni joe bro carpet test to determine torque values
    like the one the guy who aint professionally tested shit but posts a lot on tgr so hes a maggot voice says is good
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  4. #4
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    Third method is to crash a few times in different directions and not end up in Gimp Central
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  5. #5
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    having mounted remounted and tested enough binders to have a pretty good baseline level of experiance to formulate an opinion
    other than e-expertise
    pretty rare that a properly set up binder with a boot that fits norms doesnt pass a correctly calibrated montana or winterstieger bindier
    even rarer when its a dildo model
    but i defer my expertise to the north carilacky expert guy
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  6. #6
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    Still a 5 year warranty on those?
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    pretty rare that a properly set up binder with a boot that fits norms doesnt pass a correctly calibrated montana or winterstieger bindier
    even rarer when its a dildo model
    I don't get it. You mean spring aging is bs mostly? And from your experience, if binding is set correctly with the boot, din values set on binding are usually the same as testing results?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    So what causes this? The first thing that comes to mind is aging springs. It doesn't seem to me that ski binding springs would age like that though - most quality springs last a long time even when compressed.
    Sincerely doubt that a binding will be off by 2 DIN numbers in that span of time due to "spring fatigue" if it was correctly adjusted in the first place. Normally jumps in testing values go hand in hand with changes in friction, like worn boot soles/AFD pads, switching to new pristine boots, switching to AT boots, diluted grease, etc.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    but i defer my expertise to the north carilacky expert guy
    I think anything that's truly testing at a full 2, or even a full 1 differently than what the binding display window says should be shit canned. Even a genuie KaKalaKi sledge hammer can't fix something that fucked. That's assuming it's all adjusted properly with good AFDs and boot soles of course..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  10. #10
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    Maybe the forward pressure is too loose?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pretzel View Post
    Maybe the forward pressure is too loose?
    Like to think the shop tested and that told OP the results would have been competent enough to make sure that, and other variables were accounted for. I'd say either the binding's fucked or their tester is fucked. One or the other should be shit canned.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  12. #12
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    so is this about bindings that when tested don't have release values that line up with the numbers on the scale or bindings that no longer read what you set them to back in the day?

    I have had bindings that when I looked were set at lower DIN than I would ever use for whatever reason , I have zero idea why so I just set em back where they should be and they are fine ... possibly the chaos theory at work

    I never have bindings tested so i'm not sure if they will test to the scale on the binding , I have sustained injury due to overly high DIN setting twas a G3 targa with world cup springs set to 100DIN

    I don't think anybody in town tests bindings or even has the tool eh
    Last edited by XXX-er; 05-17-2019 at 11:41 AM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  13. #13
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    Nov 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk View Post
    I don't get it. You mean spring aging is bs mostly? And from your experience, if binding is set correctly with the boot, din values set on binding are usually the same as testing results?
    I won't presume to interpret for SFB, but spring aging is bs mostly, yes. The two things that change spring forces are bending the spring and cracking it (fatigue to a point that's very near failure). Both are very unlikely in metal binding springs, especially any with lots of room for properly designed springs (if you paint them red maybe...) But like GregL said, friction changes easily.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Like to think the shop tested and that told OP the results would have been competent enough to make sure that, and other variables were accounted for. I'd say either the binding's fucked or their tester is fucked. One or the other should be shit canned.
    You’d be suprised at how few shops can actually set the forward pressure of fks/pivots.

  15. #15
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    i have never had FKS but from reading all the yada yada on TGR i'm not sure how to set them either

    Speaking to the original question I think putting yer skis in a rack on top of your car to get sprayed with salt/sand/water will phuk up your bindings and rust yer edges
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  16. #16
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    I feel like I've said this before....

    springs are pretty good at staying springy. Think of all the old springs in your life. Valve springs, door springs, suspension...all of it. Springs are probably not the likely suspect.

    On the other hand, afds get gritty, boot soles get all scuffy and cut up, grit works its way into little spaces where pieces slide.

    On another hand entirely, calibrators and operators of calibrators are not perfect....or I guess I should say they weren't when I was in the shop game from like 1995-2005 or so.

    In all my testing, I saw some fails, but those were mostly heavily beat-up old plastic low-din demo bindings at the end of their service life....and Marker twincams I saw fail a fair amount, for whatever reason.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pretzel View Post
    You’d be suprised at how few shops can actually set the forward pressure of fks/pivots.
    This was my first though. Especially since the discrepancy is with the toe.

  18. #18
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    spring always comes after winter but sometime you don't get much spring
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  19. #19
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    Combining everything said so far, mixed with the great knowledge I have gained from watching AvE's videos on youtube, it sounds like friction is the culprit moreso than springs. Which then means, surely a little maintenance would help? If the DINs aree off by -1 to +2, then a little lube, some reassembly, etc. would surely help. It's scary that if a binding has to be adjusted +2 DIN to work to spec, then it idicates that the friction in the system is too-little. With new boots, the same binding might return to spec, no. How good is a binding thjat is now 2 DIN settings off and what to do about it?
    Gravitas, Pietas, Dignitas, Virtus

  20. #20
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    The spring is stronger than the plastic and/or aluminum on any binding by a huge factor. IMO the chance the spring itself drifted is very low.

    IME, the biggest factor influencing variance in lateral release at the toe is boot sole and AFD wear/friction, not DIN setting relative to torque. But 2 would be a huge diff.

    Considering they said your toes need to go up, I'm going to guess it's probably forward pressure. The indicator on the heel is only a starting point. And it may not even read correctly if you don't rotate the heel between adjustments. Dildo "snap" is what most experienced techs look for.

    Try this: put one ski on the floor, and stand on it so it doesn't move. Put a boot in, and then pull the back of the boot up with your hands. If brake arms move, your forward pressure is too low.

  21. #21
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    don't forget a din boot sole will be lubricated by the snow
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #22
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    +1 to interface issues (worn boot, AFD, etc.) as well as incorrect forward pressure. Good point made about exposed transport (road salt, grime, etc.).

    'nuther thing ... maybe the indicator line slipped off its track (for lack of a better word), so that it's not properly indexed.

    Assuming reasonable boot toe/sole shape & AFD condition as well as lack of environmental contamination, I'd set it up and not worry.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    The spring is stronger than the plastic and/or aluminum on any binding by a huge factor. IMO the chance the spring itself drifted is very low.
    Maybe this is what happens next..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  24. #24
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    Do most of you guys actually crank down the din during summer? I havenít done it and was always fine.

  25. #25
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    IMO, it's not necessary. The spring will outlast the plastic (and the skis themselves) regardless.

    But there is grease in there, so backing the DIN off for the summer does spread the grease around a bit, which is not a bad idea.

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