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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    28,756
    ski tips and tails over lift corral barrier till desired tune reached
    .

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Lake Wallenpaupack, PA
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    655
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Isn't it about this stage in the thread where someone posts the Q&P?

    OK , I'll do it ...



    ... Thom
    A classic....a must watch as I begin my tech season every Labor Day!..

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    the big question in my mind

    if y'all think you need to detune that much

    why are you bothering to tune at all ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    18
    Magotron, Tahoe

    Pacman. I want smooth edge finish, so after I file, I use the progression of diamonds 120, 220, 400, and finally 800 grit. Once this is done the first time I only use the 120 for rock burrs. It is a lot like woodworking or auto body work, once you achieve a level of smoothness you don't want to rough it up again, so if you keep up with it takes very little to maintain that level of smoothness or fine finish.

    I think the tip to tail direction is more necessary if just using a file, as looking at the edge under a microscope there are lots of tears of the edge where the file has torn metal away. The diamond progression smoothes those tears and provides a more continuous uninterrupted edge, it is all relative though.

    Talk to folks, try things, and you will find out what works for you, lots of great info here, the suggestion to watch Toko videos is a great one certainly better than a lot of youtube videos.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Among Greatness All Around
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    5,162
    Also start with what type of ski and where along with conditions- traditional camber on east coast groomers (ice coast), rockered wide powder ski for back country or western pow? Many variables to doing a good tune and if detuning or razor sharp is what you want...

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    the ham
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    6,296
    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    I take a file and run it perpendicular to the sharp edge till it not sharp.

    Idk. Maybe I'm missing something but I hate edges. Groomers are groomers and everywhere else I don't want edges to catch. I dulled the shit out of a beater pair I bought and was blown away how well they still worked
    Years ago I was at an instructor clinic *ducking for cover* and during lunch some of the geekier guys were talking about tuning your own skis (the same guys who literally made fun of me for bringing my "long" skis - 180something). The youngest guy at the table who was on jib/park skis finally couldn't take it anymore and interjected, "you know how I tune my skis? When they're new, I run each edge along the corner of a chain-link fence."

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,633
    Just barely did my own version of Q&P yesterday morn. Had to use a double cut file to power through all the work hardened burrs from mostly my all natural stone grind from skiing Soli last year(17-18 season, and yes, it's been that long since I tuned em). I just used a regular whetstone dry for polishing/honing. Only reason i tuned em was because they've been downright scary the last couple times @ the bird till it sun softened. I'm also in the I like my skis loose camp. I actually prefer my bevel to extend into the base.
    Also, I'm pretty much always on a ski around 120 uf and derive very little satisfaction from skiing groomers.

  8. #33
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    Mar 2009
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    1,633
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Just barely did my own version of Q&P yesterday morn. Had to use a double cut file to power through all the work hardened burrs from mostly my all natural stone grind from skiing Soli last year(17-18 season, and yes, it's been that long since I tuned em). I just used a regular whetstone dry for polishing/honing. Only reason u tuned em was because they've been downright scary the last couple times @ the bird till it sun softened. I'm also in the I like my skis loose camp. I actually prefer my bevel to extend into the base.
    Also, I'm pretty much always on a ski around 120 uf and derive very little satisfaction from skiing groomers.
    Now if I can find the gumption to fix all m'coreshots
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  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    10,841
    Like Roberts says--leave your base edges alone. They should be set once after the base has been flattened and ground. After that if you keep sharpening them you are increasing the distance between the edge and the snow and therefore increasing the time before edge contact with the snow so the edges will feel dull, even though they're not. Also, when you go to have your bases reflattened and reground the shop will have to remove a lot more base to get back to flat before they can set the base edge. Good way to wreck a pair of skis.

    As far as side edges, if you keep them sharp the diamond stones should be all you need. Files remove too much edge and are used to set or change edge angles or to fix damage. As far as grits that depends on where and how you're skiing but for average recreational skiing, especially in the west, no need to go through a long progression of grits.

    Get a sidewall trimmer or use other tools to remove a little sidewall above the edge. You want the stone to contact only edge, not sidewall. You don't need to do this often, only when the side edge is flush with sidewall material.

    As for deburring--if you agressively file your edges you will need to deburr, but if you use stones only and frequently probably not. You can feel a burr with your finger tip or check with your fingernail. Drag your thumbnail across the edge moving away from the ski (from top to base to check for burr on side of edge, from center of ski outward to check for a burr on the base of the edge). If there's burr there will be a little scraping of nail material. This is different than using your nail to test for sharpness--if you push your nail across the edge at a 45 degree (roughly) angle to the base of the ski (in either direction) you want to see some nail material scraped up.

    Finally, if you think your edges are sharp but they don't seem to hold on hard snow, the problem is almost certainly skiing technique and not dull edges.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    28,756
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the big question in my mind

    if y'all think you need to detune that much

    why are you bothering to tune at all ?
    buy a new pair of Praxis and get back to us
    .

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    18,034
    Ya I heard the Praxis Rx tune themselves

    Sorry but I'm a lotus guy
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Like Roberts says--leave your base edges alone. They should be set once after the base has been flattened and ground. After that if you keep sharpening them you are increasing the distance between the edge and the snow and therefore increasing the time before edge contact with the snow so the edges will feel dull, even though they're not. Also, when you go to have your bases reflattened and reground the shop will have to remove a lot more base to get back to flat before they can set the base edge. Good way to wreck a pair of skis.

    As far as side edges, if you keep them sharp the diamond stones should be all you need. Files remove too much edge and are used to set or change edge angles or to fix damage. As far as grits that depends on where and how you're skiing but for average recreational skiing, especially in the west, no need to go through a long progression of grits.

    Get a sidewall trimmer or use other tools to remove a little sidewall above the edge. You want the stone to contact only edge, not sidewall. You don't need to do this often, only when the side edge is flush with sidewall material.

    As for deburring--if you agressively file your edges you will need to deburr, but if you use stones only and frequently probably not. You can feel a burr with your finger tip or check with your fingernail. Drag your thumbnail across the edge moving away from the ski (from top to base to check for burr on side of edge, from center of ski outward to check for a burr on the base of the edge). If there's burr there will be a little scraping of nail material. This is different than using your nail to test for sharpness--if you push your nail across the edge at a 45 degree (roughly) angle to the base of the ski (in either direction) you want to see some nail material scraped up.

    Finally, if you think your edges are sharp but they don't seem to hold on hard snow, the problem is almost certainly skiing technique and not dull edges.
    Alright, didn't do the base edges. Just did the side edges at 2 degrees with the coarse and then fine diamond stone. used the gummi stone to detune tips and tails. We will see next season how it works out, but yeah im sure it will be something you figure out over time. Man you guys love caring about ski gear but pretending that you don't

  13. #38
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    10,841
    Protip--write down what you did and stick it on the skis. If you're like me (well, you're probably not as old) you'll have forgotten by next season.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacman922 View Post
    Man you guys love caring about ski gear but pretending that you don't
    yeah so we all started out like you obessing over edge angles, playing with the skis the night before because we liked doing it but at some point got complacent/realized it doesn't matter all that much especily if conditions are soft ... run a file over the big hits to keep it 90 degree/square and don't over think it

    the right wax is more likely to make a difference

    Like OG I have taken to writing down what wax is on a ski with a sharpie
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Park City
    Posts
    3,039
    Took a tuning seminar from an atomic WC rep. He very much poo pooed the tip to tail idea. One direction yes but not tip to tail on edges. He flips ski so his dominant/comfortable hand is doing the work.

    I also wonder why bother tuning of you define that much? Supergoats are the rockerest skis I have, lightly define to contact but I feel the base bevel takes care of hookyness.

    My praxis 9D’s are sharp tip to tail (as are the race skis)

    Otherwise just a light gummi pass to contact points.

    Ski in the Wasatch


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I rip the groomed on tele gear

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    yeah so we all started out like you obessing over edge angles, playing with the skis the night before because we liked doing it but at some point got complacent/realized it doesn't matter all that much especily if conditions are soft ... run a file over the big hits to keep it 90 degree/square and don't over think it

    the right wax is more likely to make a difference

    Like OG I have taken to writing down what wax is on a ski with a sharpie
    i ski on the east coast so it matters more, soft conditions are hard to come by. And just want to find out how to tune my skis correctly so i can do them quickly and not worry about them, i want to do the opposite of obsess over them.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
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    6,296
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacman922 View Post
    Man you guys love caring about ski gear but pretending that you don't
    lol, true.

    XXX is right about wax.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    18,034
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacman922 View Post
    i ski on the east coast so it matters more, soft conditions are hard to come by. And just want to find out how to tune my skis correctly so i can do them quickly and not worry about them, i want to do the opposite of obsess over them.
    Condolences eh

    you let that bit of info slip out after almost 2 pages
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    69
    The only thing you shouldn’t do tail to tip is scrape. Everything else it doesn’t matter.

    Never push a file, always pull.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bethel, Maine
    Posts
    593
    Quote Originally Posted by couchsending View Post
    The only thing you shouldn’t do tail to tip is scrape. Everything else it doesn’t matter.

    Never push a file, always pull.
    ... And brush, and iron (go in both directions to spread the wax, always finish tip to tail). I know different techs may have differing opinions on some of this, but I've heard that from enough upper-level techs that I figure it's worth the small amount of additional effort.

    Agreed on the file direction--always pull with your dominant hand--but if you're filling regularly, you're probably doing it wrong. One you have the edge angles set, diamond stones should allow you to maintain sharpness without taking as much edge off or creating the same kind of hanging burr.

    And re being worth keeping non-groomer skis sharp, I'm a fan of having confidence in my edges when I need to travel across firm snow to get to the line that's on the sun, or if I get into a line and realize it really could've used another twenty minutes of sun. Yes, it's doubly true on the East coast, but I can recall some spring days in Montana that drove the same point home. YMMV, of course.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Vernon BC
    Posts
    1,675
    You dont need edges to ski powd-air.... you are all doing it wrong.
    "Its not the arrow, its the Indian" - M.Pinto

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    1,633
    Quote Originally Posted by couchsending View Post
    The only thing you shouldn’t do tail to tip is scrape. Everything else it doesn’t matter.

    Never push a file, always pull.
    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    ... always pull

    Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app
    Meh. Nother wivestale. I push the file all the time. Works great.
    More important is the file is directional, no back n forth(obvious,I know, but I've seent it with mine own two eyes)

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    西 雅 圖
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    3,164
    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Meh. Nother wivestale. I push the file all the time. Works great.
    Takes material off the edge about half as well and trashes the file twice as fast?

  24. #49
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    Mar 2009
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    1,633
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Takes material off the edge about half as well and trashes the file twice as fast?
    Nope
    Drawing file back across work surface is what trashes files
    Material is removed just as efficient.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bethel, Maine
    Posts
    593
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Takes material off the edge about half as well and trashes the file twice as fast?
    My problem whenever I've tried had been not getting the file to cut smoothly, often to the point of making it very difficult to keep my hand from getting bounced out of position. Pulling is a lot smoother in my experience and results in less bleeding.

    Speaking of which, wearing a glove on the hand holding a file helps protect you from cuts, but also reduces your feel as to what's going on.

    Sent from my SM-G892A using TGR Forums mobile app

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