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  1. #1
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    Building mags - what does this mean? (Foundation terminology)

    I could ask the architect, or a more appropriate forum, but let's see what a group of dentists thinks:

    What's the T&P mean? (#5 rebar, yes, but what does that abbreviation tell me to do with it?)

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    Dude chill its the padded room. -AKPM

  2. #2
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    Building mags - what does this mean? (Foundation terminology)

    T&P drain pipe, extends out 12” Im assuming it’s connected to the temperature and pressure valve on the water heater but I’m not a plumber
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  3. #3
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    Is this a plan view of a basement wall?

    I could be wrong but I think it's a typo. It's supposed to say t&b which stands for top and bottom. That is (2) #5 at the top of the 12" deep concrete header and (2) # 5 at the bottom. Extend them 12" past the opening that the header is intended to span...

  4. #4
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    Close, it's a footer/stem wall, with crawlspace opening shown. It's a small addition to the back of our house. The inspector gave the OK to pour and this is what I see after they pulled the forms:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    No header over the crawlspace opening . It's 27" from the footer to the top of the stem wall, so a 12" header would make a snug 15" tall opening (should be 18" minimum).
    Dude chill its the padded room. -AKPM

  5. #5
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    Building mags - what does this mean? (Foundation terminology)

    Top & Bottom. Misprinted. Look at that P compared to the other B. Somehow the bottom half got cut off.


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  6. #6
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    Building mags - what does this mean? (Foundation terminology)

    Looks like they laid out the anchor bolts nicely for the framers and where’s the header beam in the picture? Usually you want to form it up put the rebar in then pour, a 12” pip header usually has a couple rectangular #3 or #4 bar bands to tie the #5 bar in the corners, something similar to this
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    Last edited by snoqpass; 04-27-2019 at 01:42 AM.
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  7. #7
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    looks like it was supposed to say "tip" extended 12" beyond opening
    but someone redlined it and fixed the typo "TI I " into T&P which glancing at my Ching bible i see no references to
    the bigger question imo is why pip instead of cmu? what part of the country is this?
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  8. #8
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    Definitely a typo. As mentioned above supposed to be T&B. Top and Bottom. Standard rebar note for foundations.


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiCol View Post
    the bigger question imo is why pip instead of cmu? what part of the country is this?
    Seattle area.

    I’m meeting with Art Vandelay (the architect) today, so we’ll get things figured out soon. No doubt that should say T&B though, thanks y’all.




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  10. #10
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    Oh the irony.

  11. #11
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    Looks to me like common sense prevailed when they poured. It's not like you can't span that silly little distance with wood without the loss in height that you mentioned....just run the sill across and put a wood header(if needed) on the sill.....
    If it weren't for serendipity, there'd be no dipity at all

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by train07 View Post
    Looks to me like common sense prevailed when they poured. It's not like you can't span that silly little distance with wood.
    The building inspectors in this area generally like better if you stick to the plan
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buke View Post
    Is this a plan view of a basement wall?

    I could be wrong but I think it's a typo. It's supposed to say t&b which stands for top and bottom. That is (2) #5 at the top of the 12" deep concrete header and (2) # 5 at the bottom. Extend them 12" past the opening that the header is intended to span...
    This is highly probable.

    Quote Originally Posted by snoqpass View Post
    Usually you want to form it up put the rebar in then pour, a 12” pip header usually has a couple rectangular #3 or #4 bar bands to tie the #5 bar in the corners, something similar to this
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    That would typically be overkill for a house (though it certainly wouldn’t hurt, I wouldn’t detail it that way because of the unnecessary cost and one might wind up being poured in with the concrete). Extending beyond the bearing point for the development length of the bar is sufficient for most concrete beams.

    Quote Originally Posted by train07 View Post
    Looks to me like common sense prevailed when they poured. It's not like you can't span that silly little distance with wood without the loss in height that you mentioned....just run the sill across and put a wood header(if needed) on the sill.....
    Depends on if the intent is to hang the joists from the sill plate with a top mount hanger or if it will be framed on top with a box joist. If the former, still possible but some detailing required. If the latter, it shouldn’t be an issue and wood should be able to span that span as mentioned (depending on the loading of course).

    *these are all just general comments and of course specific instances call for different solutions*

    And what is this “pip” that people keep mentioning? Is it phones autocorrecting from “cip” for cast in place?
    "...if you're not doing a double flip cork something, skiing spines in Haines, or doing double flip cork somethings off spines in Haines, you're pretty much just gaping."

  14. #14
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    Poured in place
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by shafty85 View Post
    ... and one might wind up being poured in with the concrete
    prob the line of thinking of the concrete guys also
    If it weren't for serendipity, there'd be no dipity at all

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by shafty85 View Post
    This is highly probable.



    That would typically be overkill for a house (though it certainly wouldn’t hurt, I wouldn’t detail it that way because of the unnecessary cost and one might wind up being poured in with the concrete). Extending beyond the bearing point for the development length of the bar is sufficient for most concrete beams.



    Depends on if the intent is to hang the joists from the sill plate with a top mount hanger or if it will be framed on top with a box joist. If the former, still possible but some detailing required. If the latter, it shouldn’t be an issue and wood should be able to span that span as mentioned (depending on the loading
    There’s seismic codes here for reinforcing concrete that adds a lot of extra stuff
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoqpass View Post
    There’s seismic codes here for reinforcing concrete that adds a lot of extra stuff
    I’m just up the way from ya but it’s always us just adopting your code and changing it so it works with our system (LSD) so you’re probably way ahead of us in design requirements.

    I’d still think adding column/zone reinforcement to a wall is overkill unless designing to a higher ductility, but hey - we can only do what the code requires of us. And then be berated by contractors for how over designed things are
    "...if you're not doing a double flip cork something, skiing spines in Haines, or doing double flip cork somethings off spines in Haines, you're pretty much just gaping."

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by shafty85 View Post
    I’m just up the way from ya but it’s always us just adopting your code and changing it so it works with our system (LSD) so you’re probably way ahead of us in design requirements.

    I’d still think adding column/zone reinforcement to a wall is overkill unless designing to a higher ductility, but hey - we can only do what the code requires of us. And then be berated by contractors for how over designed things are
    I spent a few years tying rebar as an Ironworker, it’s amazing some of the shit engineers came up with
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoqpass View Post
    I spent a few years tying rebar as an Ironworker, it’s amazing some of the shit engineers came up with
    I hear ya. As one of them I can tell you that Though much of it is required, equally as much is just people without a brain and/or experience, As with all professions/skills/trades/etc. None of us are perfect (present company excluded, I’m sure).
    "...if you're not doing a double flip cork something, skiing spines in Haines, or doing double flip cork somethings off spines in Haines, you're pretty much just gaping."

  20. #20
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    Building mags - what does this mean? (Foundation terminology)

    Sometimes it was like a giant iron IKEA product were you scratch your head and wonder how are we going to make it look like the picture
    Last edited by snoqpass; 04-27-2019 at 09:59 PM.
    “I have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.”

  21. #21
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    You probably just didn’t read the instructions in 19 languages, though none would be accurate


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    "...if you're not doing a double flip cork something, skiing spines in Haines, or doing double flip cork somethings off spines in Haines, you're pretty much just gaping."

  22. #22
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    so house(OP)...who is taking responsibility, what happened, and what's with so many pads having been poured?
    If it weren't for serendipity, there'd be no dipity at all

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by train07 View Post
    so house(OP)...who is taking responsibility, what happened, and what's with so many pads having been poured?
    Happy ending - no responsibility needs to be taken. The architect stopped by to take a look, and while he wasn't thrilled, he admitted it was overbuilt and that we can still attain adequate shear hold down. He says using 4x bottom plate on that shear wall above the opening, anchoring it to the foundation, and nailing off the sheathing to that fat bottom plate should suffice. Someone mentioned the need to hang joists - and yeah we'll probably size up to a 4x ledger to span that opening (for those who haven't noticed - joists will hang from a ledger anchored into the stem wall).

    All those pads are for posts supporting 4x8 beams. These beams hold up bearing walls in the addition above (edit: only two walls; no bearing wall above the center two pads). This is a one story addition, so I think it'll be pretty stout! Longest span for floor joists is <10' due to the beams, so we can use shallower floor trusses/I-joists and keep a decent crawlspace depth. Full floor framing pic:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Anyone here have experience with trimjoist type floor joists? Architect is concerned they have more bounce, since they're built from 2x oriented flat, but with our short spans I think we'd be fine (I have stayed at a holiday inn express). I like the option of running ducting through the open web of the trimjoists. https://trimjoist.com/. I haven't taken the time to look at stiffness specs but I presume those would enlighten the "bounciness" question.
    Last edited by house; 04-30-2019 at 11:10 AM.
    Dude chill its the padded room. -AKPM

  24. #24
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    I'm confused ( a perennial state)....you state the longest span of the joists is less than 10' due to the 4x8 beams....how so? are your joists are running perpendicular to those beams? in which case I don't understand the ledgers....but I do see the arrows on the drawings...
    What about the 4x8 beams...they are the same height as the joists?
    If it weren't for serendipity, there'd be no dipity at all

  25. #25
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    I haven't used that exact product but I wouldn't be too concerned about "bounciness". With 16o.c. and shorter spans it should be fine. Also the 3/4 t&g should tie the whole diaphragm together nicely. Seems like those bearing walls are being built for some serious loads but maybe code dictates it where you're at. Seems pretty damn stout for a small addition from a framing perspective.

    I'm seeing joists run parallel to beams. I'd assume beams are to joist height since he said they're there to carry bearing walls above.
    Last edited by lifelinksplit; 04-30-2019 at 12:01 PM. Reason: Trains confusion

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