contesting rental car damage

[Danno]

Isn’t the before proof the signed agreement that there is no damage? The after proof is the damage estimate (and maybe photos).

The before proof is what you say, the after proof would be the check in examination plus damage estimate/photos. It should not be hard for them to provide it. But it is perfectly reasonable to say "hey, before I accept liability for this, show me the proof." That proof needs to show the damage and estimate for repair, PLUS show that he caused the damage (ie the before and after paperwork). If the "after" paperwork doesn't note the damage, and damage was discovered later, there's not much grounds to go after him.

I'd certainly do this before just agreeing to pay $800.

[Danno]

When you cancel a credit card it does not get you off the hook for pending charges... shirley?

Yes, generally speaking. But this is not a pending charge on his card, this is a future charge. And when a company tries to charge your card after the fact, and the card number they have is declined, and you don't give them a new card, what recourse do they have other than collections? And if it is a French company trying to collect from you in the states, seems likely that there is no recourse at all.

[Timberridge]

The French Foreign Legion operates in many countries. I'm guessing you've never spent time in a French prison have you, Danno?

[frorider]

Studiously trying to choose my words to be inoffensive Dex, but consider treating this as a lesson learned.

I’ve known for years, as you know too, the value of making sure before your trip which CC covers damage in that country vs US coverage. And I’ve known that it’s wise to do a real inspection rather than getting in a rush to leave. And carefully read what you’re signing.

The reality is sometimes you forget to take those basic steps or convince yourself other things are more important. Most of the time no consequences result. Sometimes you get bitch slapped though. Which then reminds you to do those steps next time. You’re smart enough to know that in a court of law (LOL) you’re not getting anywhere with the ‘but I was never near a curb during the rental period’ argument.

Not busting your balls. We’ve all slipped up at some point on things like this.

On a two week Sixt rental I, or my brother, apparently ?? did some light paint damage parking. Credit card company paid for nearly all of it. I’m not convinced we actually did the damage but I couldn’t have proven it otherwise regardless.

[PNWbrit]

Yes, generally speaking. But this is not a pending charge on his card, this is a future charge. And when a company tries to charge your card after the fact, and the card number they have is declined

I would bet the rental car company has lawyers who covered this in the small print.

Otherwise why would they let you use a credit card as security for damages.

[XXX-er]

I sourced the drivers for a raft company to transport raft clients in a nicce new sienna, a piece of grader blade got kicked up and went thru the bumper and a rock got wedged between the brake caliper & aluminium wheel which started lathing off aluminium, I think the bumper was 1300$ and the rock fell out when the driver backed up, the raft company had to deal with the bumper, the damaged wheel never got noticed and the driver refused to do that gig again

Not sure this is serious advice (advise?), but assuming it is...unless I have a friend do it for free, based on the last time I retained someone I'm out over $1000 before the attorney reads a document/hits a key on his keyboard. The least expensive attorney I know probably bills at $250/hour (actually his associate might bill at $200), and the notion that I could recover attorney fees...hmmm, I'm really not sure what to say. I've never come close to being involved in something like this (at least not with an attorney involved), but it seems far fetched, at best (I will qualify all this by noting that my legal 'expertise' is based primarily on having a father who is a law prof, which actually didn't do much to enlighten me).

I guess it wouldn't be much skin off someone's back to write a lawyer letter for me. That on its own could make them go away.

I will admit there is a bit of principle behind this (I mean, I'm definitely also not interested in paying $800 for no reason), but as I mentioned they are already close to wearing me down so that I just turn this over to the cc company (still, I would tell them that they shouldn't pay it, either).

IME you wana create FUD, thro around a few precedents using almost unreadable hand writing and they cave pretty quick

[Timberridge]

Dex, the frogs are still pissed about the Louisiana Purchase so they like to fuck with le Americains.

[Danno]

I would bet the rental car company has lawyers who covered this in the small print.

Otherwise why would they let you use a credit card as security for damages.

of course they have; that's essentially what schindlerpiste is saying. whether they follow through after Dex takes the steps MTM outlined is another matter entirely.

[PNWbrit]

of course they have.

Make your mind up.

[Dexter Rutecki]

And whatever you do, make sure you don't buy the $10/d insurance from the vendor in order to protect yourself against erroneous claims from the rental firm.

I think you're being sarcastic.

I don't actually know what the daily charge would be, as I have always declined, but I'm pretty sure that if I were to add up what I would have paid out over the years for that coverage against this charge (I think I mentioned this has never happened to me before) then I come out ahead, even assuming I pay out of pocket the full amount. And I'm virtually certain that in the U.S. you should never buy the optional insurance (assuming you're using a major cc). You're just giving them money for nothing, from what I understand. Overseas I'm still not certain, but at least with Amex (which I didn't use) it seems you are still covered (as I do with all important matters in life I will defer to iceman on this).

Studiously trying to choose my words to be inoffensive Dex,

People posting to be inoffensive--there's a first time for everything on this board.

but consider treating this as a lesson learned.

Yeah, in the future I will probably make sure to take photos all around the car and at least look at whatever I sign.

I’ve known for years, as you know too, the value of making sure before your trip which CC covers damage in that country vs US coverage. And I’ve known that it’s wise to do a real inspection rather than getting in a rush to leave. And carefully read what you’re signing.

The reality is sometimes you forget to take those basic steps or convince yourself other things are more important. Most of the time no consequences result.

Right--I was in a real rush, had nine hours of driving ahead of me, family/car to pack up and figuring out how I'd load the car in the middle of Paris (I had to double park on this really narrow street and make a bunch of Parisians pissed off at me). But after years of renting cars (I don't have to rent a car very often, but over all the years it has added up) with them never marking any damage on return I definitely assumed or convinced myself that's how it would always be, and I just literally stopped paying any attention at all. Thinking back now I kind of remember the Sixt guy walking around the car and entering things on his device, but I didn't ask him anything about it and he didn't say anything.

One other thing with this, as far as this particular damage goes--if they had said some other part of the car was damaged while I had it I probably would have had to accept their claim as possibly true, but I just can't picture how this damage would have happened while I was driving, nor while it was parked (the idea that some other car next to ours could have done it doesn't make sense to me).

[Ted Striker]

of course they have; that's essentially what schindlerpiste is saying. whether they follow through after Dex takes the steps MTM outlined is another matter entirely.

ergo, it will boil down to money. If their cost of recovery exceeds the cost of repair dex is off the hook. If the fact is that already have American counsel and collections due to their US operations, dex will probably have to suck it up.

[redacted user]

Sorry for being a d*ck, Dex. I think your approach to the concept of insurance is backwards, but it's your call. Good luck resolving it.

[RShea]

How hard would it be for them to send you a copy of exactly what you signed off on that you claim you did not read? Then further proof of the photos of the damage (and dates of those photos being before the car went out on another rental?)

Turn to the credit card and find out what their coverage or opinion of the claim is (and of course what they have for coverage on rentals in France or overseas if any...)

As stated want to get out of it, maybe cancelling the card and or disputing the claim with insurance and credit card would do that... Or else you never return to France again to face arrest...

[Dexter Rutecki]

ergo, it will boil down to money. If their cost of recovery exceeds the cost of repair dex is off the hook. If the fact is that already have American counsel and collections due to their US operations, dex will probably have to suck it up.

Well, I'm still hoping if anyone on this side of the pond ends up paying at all it will be my cc company, but yeah, that has to be their calculation.

BTW, how could this Audi wheel thing cost over $800 (I haven't looked at what the exchange actually is--bill is in Euros--but I'm sure it's over $800)? That's more than I paid last time I bought new snow tires and rims combined (they were the cheap-o, ugly, black steel rims, but still).

[Ted Striker]

It's like bidding a government contract. Double the normal rate, and it goes up from there.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Sorry for being a d*ck, Dex. I think your approach to the concept of insurance is backwards, but it's your call. Good luck resolving it.

You are correct, it probably is backwards, and I don't approach normal insurance questions that way--I was just pointing out that I am still ahead, and while I didn't check as I should have this time, I do know that in the past my cc would have covered me.

Now get back to being a dick.

[muted]

You are correct, it probably is backwards, and I don't approach normal insurance questions that way--I was just pointing out that I am still ahead, and while I didn't check as I should have this time, I do know that in the past my cc would have covered me.

Now get back to being a dick.

no worries there

[BmillsSkier]

BTW, how could this Audi wheel thing cost over $800?

It’s part of Audi’s business model.

[PNWbrit]

Well, I'm still hoping if anyone on this side of the pond ends up paying at all it will be my cc company, but yeah, that has to be their calculation.

BTW, how could this Audi wheel thing cost over $800 (I haven't looked at what the exchange actually is--bill is in Euros--but I'm sure it's over $800)? That's more than I paid last time I bought new snow tires and rims combined (they were the cheap-o, ugly, black steel rims, but still).

Are they billing for lost rental income while car is at shop.. and time $ of getting it there.

Amex successfully challenged former for me.. or actually ultimately them. Apparently they need to provide details of fleet availability to charge for lost income.. and they never can or do.

[Timberridge]

It’s part of Audi’s business model.

So Dex rented a car made in a country that's pissed about losing WW2, in a country that's pissed about the whole Louisiana Purchase thing? This was doomed from the get-go.

[BmillsSkier]

So Dex rented a car made in a country that's pissed about losing WW2, in a country that's pissed about the whole Louisiana Purchase thing? This was doomed from the get-go.

It’s all starting to make sense. Don’t forget Sixt is German too.

du bist gefickt

[PNWbrit]

So Dex rented a car made in a country that's pissed about losing WW2, in a country that's pissed about the whole Louisiana Purchase thing? This was doomed from the get-go.

and make a bunch of Parisians pissed off at me

They're Parisians, they were already pissed at you before you even thought about visiting.

[redacted user]

no worries there

[Timberridge]

It’s all starting to make sense. Don’t forget Sixt is German too.

du bist gefickt

Oh shit.

He's lucky he didn't end up in the basement of an empty Alsace farmhouse with a perforated colon.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Are they billing for lost rental income while car is at shop.. and time $ of getting it there.

Amex successfully challenged former for me.. or actually ultimately them. Apparently they need to provide details of fleet availability to charge for lost income.. and they never can or do.

So we are supposed to believe these cars are never sitting in a lot just waiting to be rented? And they don't have a guy who can repair this while it's in that lot? Not to mention that for what they seem to want to charge I was actually assuming that it is the cost of a new rim--in terms of repair effort/time there literally dozens of flat fix places within a few miles of me (one two blocks away) that could literally do that in about five minutes (for $20). Don't even need to bring the car itself for that. And I guess they would claim that while it has this scratch on the rim it can't be rented? Hell, they probably want to rent it out because then they can stick the next guy with the same damage as well.

They're Parisians, they were already pissed at you before you even thought about visiting.

Funny, I had the exact same thought when I typed it. Might as well give them something to be angry about, as opposed to their usual general feelings of inferiority and resentment towards Americans.

It’s part of Audi’s business model.

Audi's business model is Lambos?