Chinese built skiis any downside?

[SumJongGuy]

Biggest ignoramus on here.
Proven not just wrong, but utterly clueless.

I'll own that on the Chinese/non Chinese components. That said, are there any major 100% American made skis with no European components?

[jono]

Prospects for the future is more ass talk.

I'll own that on the Chinese/non Chinese components. That said, are there any major 100% American made skis with no European components?

SMH

[2FUNKY]

SMH

It’s like he took what i said as a challenge.

[tuco]

SMH

SMF?

[californiagrown]

the *only* material in our skis from China is the bamboo core (cannot grow bamboo big enough in the USA).

Hold my beer, watch this....

[Melee]

I'll own that on the Chinese/non Chinese components. That said, are there any major 100% American made skis with no European components?

No.

There are a couple materials that no companies in the USA produce:

- Ski Edge ( only two decent mfgs in the world - both in Europe )
- VDS Rubberfoil (One in Europe - One in Japan)

As I stated earlier we get our topsheet from Europe. There are two USA mfgs of topsheet but the material sucks on skis. The material is better suited for products like wakeboards so we don't use it.

[alias_rice]

It’s like he took what i said as a challenge.

I can typically smell a troll a mile away, but I really think he’s just that clueless.

[SumJongGuy]

No.

There are a couple materials that no companies in the USA produce:

- Ski Edge ( only two decent mfgs in the world - both in Europe )
- VDS Rubberfoil (One in Europe - One in Japan)

As I stated earlier we get our topsheet from Europe. There are two USA mfgs of topsheet but the material sucks on skis. The material is better suited for products like wakeboards so we don't use it.

Thanks.. I'll try to remember next year but no promises..

[DumbIdeasOnly]

Thanks.. I'll try to remember next year but no promises..

Just so you know - the US actually has a decent fraction of worldwide plastic production on the gulf coast. The reason is we have a lot of very cheap natural gas, some of which has ethane, ethane is starting point for the raw material in plastics. It's fairly simple to turn it into something like a ski base from there.

[SumJongGuy]

Just so you know - the US actually has a decent fraction of worldwide plastic production on the gulf coast. The reason is we have a lot of very cheap natural gas, some of which has ethane, ethane is starting point for the raw material in plastics. It's fairly simple to turn it into something like a ski base from there.

Makes sense that plastics are made from petroleum. I remember my grandfather talking about how in WWII we had major issues since Asia was the only place to get rubber... before we figured out how to make synthetic stuff.

And, so you're the person who took my first choice for user name?

[Toadman]

https://youtu.be/vfgTXFx4Ins

Here it is. Just re-watched it. Super interesting insights to asian bike manufacturing. I wonder how much transfers over to skis.

Late to the thread. But this transfers into (input name of product here). I've spent time in Asia at mfg. facilities. Mainly for auto/commercial vehicle parts. These trade shows are for anything you can think of. Not just bikes or skis. You name it. The Chinese will build it, or have been building it for decades. You will have your low end mfg. and your tier 1 mfg companies. I get inundated with spam from Chinese mfg. all the time. Some you just know the quality is garbage, and they are looking for an outlet to dump all that excess capacity due to the tariffs going on right now in China.

It's no different than building X product in Y country. It comes down to sourcing of quality raw materials, or semi finished materials and assembly. Good engineering and QC audit controls. I've been in highly automated factories in Hangzhou and in and around Shanghai, and I've been in older factories that are more manual. Almost all custom aftermarket wheels for the USA are made in China now. They have very advanced CAD/CAM systems for forging aluminum or magnesium allow wheels, and also casting processes. Some Chinese factories use Chinese built equipment, that are generally knock off of US or European technology.

One would think that any ski being built in China, that is a House brand, is going to have tight quality controls and design specs in place, and that the products coming out will be of generally good quality. And I know for a fact that when a product fails, the engineers are going to want to see that product to see what caused the failure. I've been fortunate enough to have spent time in testing facilities and seen product tested to failure. Not being an engineer, it is very helpful hanging with those dudes and dudettes to learn about the technical aspects of things.

[DumbIdeasOnly]

And, so you're the person who took my first choice for user name?

I think it might be slightly less ironic if I gave it to you.

[SumJongGuy]

I think it might be INFININTLY less ironic if I gave it to you.

Fixed!

[Dee Hubbs]

No.

There are a couple materials that no companies in the USA produce:

- Ski Edge ( only two decent mfgs in the world - both in Europe )

And that raw steel most likely comes from China, just like more than 50% of all the worlds steel.

[DumbIdeasOnly]

And that raw steel most likely comes from China, just like more than 50% of all the worlds steel.

It’s true China has more than 50% of steel production, it is not true that China accounts for more than 50% of net steel exports. Eyeballing the numbers, I think it’s probably closer to 40% of net exports.

It is also far from certain that whatever specialized grade of (spring?) steel ski edges are made out of originates in China as a general matter. Steel exports are measured in millions of tons and all steel ever used in ski edges can’t possibly be meaningful on that scale, so I think you’re misusing the statistics a bit.

I understand global trade is confusing, but sometimes thinking isolated statistics out of context through a moralistic lens makes it more confusing and leads to bad conclusions.

[iggyskier]

And that raw steel most likely comes from China, just like more than 50% of all the worlds steel.

Just asked our supplier to confirm - he stated all raw materials originate in Germany and are then sent to edge manufacturing facility in Austria. That process is pretty crazy and takes about 4 months from start to finish to produce ski edges.

Feel free to do more research on them if you like. https://www.waelzholz.com/en.html

[abraham]

To save anyone the time:

Expert partner for skis and hard punching

Waelzholz International, located in Götzis, Austria, specializes in the production of both hardened and tempered and non-tempered shaped wire edges. These products are primarily used in the ski and snowboard industry, for which the company manufactures around 40,000 km of steel edges every year. Through a combination of extremely homogeneous materials and a specially developed manufacturing process, Waelzholz International produces uniform profiles for particularly demanding requirements. What makes this process unique is that the ski and snowboard edges are punched in a hardened and tempered state, achieving tighter tolerances and higher quality as a result. Waelzholz International supplies both profiles on rolls ready to be cut to length and bent by the customer, as well as ready-made, wrap-around edges manufactured using a specially developed, CNC-controlled bending machine. The company’s product range extends from fast yet highly customized solutions in the smallest batch sizes to mass production of complex edge shapes. Waelzholz International holds a global market share of about 70 percent for ski edges and 90 percent for snowboard edges.

In addition to ski and snowboard edges, Waelzholz International has developed an additional area of business: ski reinforcing steel strip. This reinforcing steel strip is used as an inlay in skis that are sprayed from PU foam. The strip gives the skis the necessary torsional stiffness.

The Austrian location applies its comprehensive know-how in ski edge production to the benefit of customers from other sectors as well. This is because the company's expertise in punching hardened and tempered materials allows it to provide special services for customers in the field of punching and bending. The focus here is on consulting and special solutions for the process referred to as hard punching. In close cooperation with Waelzholz’s central Materials Technology department, the company develops customized materials for its customers and adapts them to the punching process. This means that hard punching can often replace the process of piece hardening the punched and bent parts at the customer’s site. Waelzholz International also has extensive experience in building tools for punching hardened strip. If required, customers can also rely on tailored consulting services in this field. The right material from Waelzholz combined with a tool designed specifically for the materials’ extreme hardness can help increase part quality and reduce reject rates – added value that truly benefits the customer.

[gregL]

Feel free to do more research on them if you like. https://www.waelzholz.com/en.html

I've visited a few factories, and everyone says they get their edges from Waelzholz - who is the other "decent" supplier?

[iggyskier]

I've visited a few factories, and everyone says they get their edges from Waelzholz - who is the other "decent" supplier?

https://www.metalldeutsch.com/

While there might be suppliers in Asia I don't know about (never heard anything), as far as who I know that we can go buy edges from, this is it.

Most of NA is CDW, but there is one at least one major US factory using MD.

[gregL]

Most of NA is CDW, but there is one at least one major US factory using MD.

Thanks, iggy. Do you think the two are comparable in quality?

[SUPERIOR]

This is a fascinating thread. Great to see some real talk by the ski scientists.

Iggy and Melee, you should carve a sliver of your marketing budgets to hire me as a freelance documentary producer.

Together, we will journey to Germany and drink beer and eat sausages while shooting video of sweet castles and steel manufacturing for use in a PSA about what’s really in ur skis.

Oktoberfest next year?

[gregL]

From the Waelzholz website, not sure where the steel comes from but maybe there is hope for a 100% American ski:

"Waelzholz North America, located in Cleveland, Ohio, serves customers in the entire North American market. Here, we manufacture and ship over 20,000 tons of steel strip each year. A team of 25 employees make sure that our customers receive the best Waelzholz quality and customized service.

Our CDW Edge division, which manufactures ski and snowboard edges in Cleveland, is the North American market leader in this segment."

[El Chupacabra]

333 needs to implement edges made from Whales Holes.

[iggyskier]

From the Waelzholz website, not sure where the steel comes from but maybe there is hope for a 100% American ski:

"Waelzholz North America, located in Cleveland, Ohio, serves customers in the entire North American market. Here, we manufacture and ship over 20,000 tons of steel strip each year. A team of 25 employees make sure that our customers receive the best Waelzholz quality and customized service.

Our CDW Edge division, which manufactures ski and snowboard edges in Cleveland, is the North American market leader in this segment."

For clarity on that part - this isn't steel production. It's part manufacturing from steel rolls/coils that come in from Germany or Austria. So for ski edges - that would entail cutting and sometimes bending (if requested) the edges for the end user. Some companies just buy straight coils, some companies get edges that are precut to certain lengths (this is what we do), and some companies take this one further step and have CDW CNC bend the edges to the shape of the skis.

[itwistjoints]

Ok. I'm late to the discussion but, I have been told the reason for relocating to China is due to cost (line and K2 rep). If that's the case then why are K2 skis so fucking expensive? I know the pro's are making bank, etc.... I skied k2 for years and went into boycott mode (except for the sweet 'toons I got for my kiddos recently) when they moved to China. Fortunately, I can still support some small batch US manufacturers (on3p and deviation for me) with the hope they will survive in the era of corporate takeover blah blah blah. Also, big props to iggyskiier for the detailed posts, very educational.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk