Gravel/Bikepack nerds enter...

**jamal** · 06-29-2020, 12:27 PM

Current cx bikes and gravel bikes have pretty similar geo. A cannondale super x and topstone are essentially identical for example, and in fact the super x has longer chainstays and a barely slacker hta and lower bb. Some vary more, specialized's diverge is a bit longer and has a lower bb than the crux. Even the pure "cx race" bikes have slackened the hta and gotten a little lower since like 10 years ago.

What is probably a more significant difference is that gravel bikes generally have more mounting provisions for racks and bags and whatever, BB height meant for a 40ish mm tire instead of a 33, maybe more clearance but cx frames are fairly generous despite being meant for smaller tires due to mud concerns. Plus only uci rules require 33s so most racers can, and do go with larger tires.

**kathleenturneroverdrive** · 06-29-2020, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by sethschmautz

Can anybody weigh in on Gravel bike geo? I'm looking at replacing a road bike (Scott CR1 from 2011) with a gravel bike. My use case is that I'll probably ride a combo of gravel and road - eventually buying a second wheelset for road riding.

There are a lot of ads on Pinkbike and elsewhere for "CX/Gravel bikes" which I'm assuming simply means that they are CX bikes with CX geometry but you can ride them on gravel if you'd like. What are some base numbers for HA and SA that I should be looking for? Any other numbers I should keep my eyes on? Is a CX bike a reasonable option for a starter gravel bike? Seems like those are more abundant.

Seth

CX bikes will work fine. The thing I'd look out for is tire size. CK bikes can max out around 35/38 while "gravel" bikes usually max out around 45 or more. There's nothing wrong with a 35/38 tire though. Especially if you're mostly riding pavement + gravel roads. If you're wanting to push into more singletrack/nasty dirt roads some people like to have a bit more rubber under them.

**huckbucket** · 06-29-2020, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by sethschmautz

Can anybody weigh in on Gravel bike geo? I'm looking at replacing a road bike (Scott CR1 from 2011) with a gravel bike. My use case is that I'll probably ride a combo of gravel and road - eventually buying a second wheelset for road riding.

There are a lot of ads on Pinkbike and elsewhere for "CX/Gravel bikes" which I'm assuming simply means that they are CX bikes with CX geometry but you can ride them on gravel if you'd like. What are some base numbers for HA and SA that I should be looking for? Any other numbers I should keep my eyes on? Is a CX bike a reasonable option for a starter gravel bike? Seems like those are more abundant.

Seth

The Scott Addict CX and the Addict Gravel are the exact same frames AFAIK. Plenty aggressive if you enjoyed your road bike and don't want to get too slack with your next bike. Plus you can build it up as light as you want to as the frame is super light. I was in your shoes in that I was thinking about a one quiver road/gravel bike but opted to keep my road bike around even after getting a SuperX recently.

**sethschmautz** · 06-29-2020, 02:08 PM

Max tire width in the Super X?

**jamal** · 06-29-2020, 02:15 PM

I think they say 40-42. The caad x doesn't have the offset rear end and has a little less room, 37-40ish? Also depends on the actual tire. Some measure larger, have more side knob protusion, etc.

my orbea is a pure cx race bike from almost 10 year ago with a pretty short wheelbase, steep hta, higher bb. I have 40mm nanos on it. They actually measure 41-42mm, but the side knobs don't stick out past the casing at all and it fits. barely. I am concerned that some other 40s would rub.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 06-29-2020, 02:58 PM

I’d buy a bike with the most clearance you can find. Riding with the max tire width doesn’t leave much clearance for mud and debris or tire wobble if you take a hard hit to the wheel.

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**huckbucket** · 06-29-2020, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by sethschmautz

Max tire width in the Super X?

I run 38 comfortably. Could do 40 with room for mud build up, etc.

**homemadesalsa** · 06-29-2020, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by rometheworld

Anyone in Bozeman area looking to team up for a bike packing trip later in summer? Or just ride dirt? Moved from Denver in December so looking for folks to ride with.

You might join SWMMBA (it's free). They have group rides and trail building and trail clearing events. Nice folks who get things done.

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**idahospud** · 06-29-2020, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by homemadesalsa

You might join SWMMBA (it's free). They have group rides and trail building and trail clearing events. Nice folks who get things done.

Sent from my SM-A600A using Tapatalk

Not to be confused with SWMBIA!

**HellgateBasement** · 06-29-2020, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by idahospud

Not to be confused with SWMBIA!

Or NAMBLA!

@sethschmautz
I bought a cheapish Specialized Crux CX bike that some cross racer was selling. It has discs and clearance for 40c tires, both of which I think are critical, and it has worked totally fine as a low-cost starter gravel bike. The one thing I hadn't considered that I ended up having to swap was the rear cassette - "real gravel bikes" are geared much more forgiving for long steep climbs. I was able to just swap the cassette but it could have turned into a pain in the ass if I needed to replace the cassette, rear derailleur, etc... Something to keep in mind as you cruise craigslist, peruse pinkbike, or whatever the kids are doing these days.

**Whiteroom_Guardian** · 06-30-2020, 12:38 PM

Oh man. Nice 23mm internal Easton carbon wheels + 700x38 gravelkings = such a nice ride.

**sethschmautz** · 07-01-2020, 10:59 AM

Anybody have any experience with the Warbird or the Cutthroat? The Cutthroat has a slacker HA (69), steeper SA (74) with longer chainstains (483) than the Warbird (71 / 73 / 430, respectively). The Cutthroat can handle up to a 29x2.4" tire, but I'm not sure what I'd think about that geo if I swapped in road wheels/tires to ride it on the road.

Would be interested to hear if others have any time on either of these two options. Next best value seems to be the Giant Revolt from what I am seeing...

Seth

**kathleenturneroverdrive** · 07-01-2020, 12:35 PM

Deciding between those two bikes totally makes sense, but the Cutthroat + road wheelset doesn't really compute for me. If I was going to run a road wheelset sometimes (that I already own) I'd be looking at the 650b Warroad instead, but that might just be me. What do you ride/what would a typical day be for you on this bike?

**sethschmautz** · 07-01-2020, 12:55 PM

Not having ever had a gravel bike, I'm currently asking the question: "Does a gravel bike make sense for me?"

I have a roadbike and I have mountain bikes. Typically I ride the road bike on the paved roads around here (a tiny bit on gravel to/from pavement) and the mountain bikes on single/doubletrack. Nothing profound here. However, the area all around me in Montana is full of mixed gravel/pavement/doubletrack/singletrack. It *seems* to me as though it would open up a lot of options for me.

I would use this bike to commute to/from work in the summer (mostly all pavement, but could throw in gravel to make it more direct), doing road rides with my wife, a bit of bikepacking on forest service and other roads (I'm located right near Glacier Park, Flathead National Forest, along the route of the Great Divide, etc.).

Generally I'd be looking at this bike as a roadbike that would be at home also on gravel. Not having ridden one, I'm not sure whether I'd find the 35-45mm tires slow on pavement and want a second set of tires or if that would happen so rarely that I wouldn't sweat it.

What I'm noticing in my reply above is a consistent "I haven't ridden one. . ." so I think I'll start there and see if I can find a loaner/rental this weekend.

Seth

**plugboots** · 07-01-2020, 01:01 PM

As one data point my brother-in-law demoed a bunch of gravel bikes for his mostly pavement use and he ended up buying a warbird. He just loved the way it rode on the pavement (he’s a newbie/beginner but good athlete).

**kathleenturneroverdrive** · 07-01-2020, 01:09 PM

I think the Warbird is the call since it does a bit of everything. For me the Warroad/Cutthroat are more on the roadie/bikepacking ends of the spectrum. Which are great. But they come with bigger sacrifices in speed/comfort when you push them outside their normal terrain vs. the Warbird.

**Iowagriz** · 07-01-2020, 01:46 PM

Seth - with the caveat that I haven't ridden them, but lived in the land of Salsa and gravel for the past 16yrs. And, with buddies that ride both.

Warbird, good for the gravel in the Flathead valley (Lake Blaine area comes to mind) and the North Fork road.
Cutthroat - good for the Red Meadow type of road, more rocks, more hardcore of a downhill, etc.

Both are good, Warbird for more roadie stuff - Cutthroat for more off-road oriented

**sethschmautz** · 07-01-2020, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive

I think the Warbird is the call since it does a bit of everything. For me the Warroad/Cutthroat are more on the roadie/bikepacking ends of the spectrum. Which are great. But they come with bigger sacrifices in speed/comfort when you push them outside their normal terrain vs. the Warbird.

Everything made sense until the itallics - did you mean "...the Warroad/Warbird are more on the roadie/bikepacking ends..."? The Cutthroat seems to be a lot more offroad focused when compared to the other two.

I wasn't even aware of the Warroad so thanks for putting that on my radar!

Seth

**huckbucket** · 07-01-2020, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by sethschmautz

Not having ever had a gravel bike, I'm currently asking the question: "Does a gravel bike make sense for me?"

I have a roadbike and I have mountain bikes. Typically I ride the road bike on the paved roads around here (a tiny bit on gravel to/from pavement) and the mountain bikes on single/doubletrack. Nothing profound here. However, the area all around me in Montana is full of mixed gravel/pavement/doubletrack/singletrack. It *seems* to me as though it would open up a lot of options for me.

I would use this bike to commute to/from work in the summer (mostly all pavement, but could throw in gravel to make it more direct), doing road rides with my wife, a bit of bikepacking on forest service and other roads (I'm located right near Glacier Park, Flathead National Forest, along the route of the Great Divide, etc.).

Generally I'd be looking at this bike as a roadbike that would be at home also on gravel. Not having ridden one, I'm not sure whether I'd find the 35-45mm tires slow on pavement and want a second set of tires or if that would happen so rarely that I wouldn't sweat it.

What I'm noticing in my reply above is a consistent "I haven't ridden one. . ." so I think I'll start there and see if I can find a loaner/rental this weekend.

Seth

While it's logical you'd think the gravel bike is closer in purpose to the road bike, some of my favorite rides on my bike are single track. Can't be too gnarly of course. With 40mm knobbies there's so much you can do. But you're right. First and foremost, it opens up access to routes you wouldn't take on your road bike.

**kathleenturneroverdrive** · 07-01-2020, 02:56 PM

I kind of view the Warroad/Warbird/Cutthroat as 3 bikes in the same "gravel" line with the Warbird in the middle as the do everything bike that bridges the gap between the two. Could just be me that thinks that way though.

The 650b Warroad with a 2nd 700c wheelset was on my shortlist for a new bike. I'm in MT as well and know it's inevitable we'll be riding a few months of road during mud season(s) so it totally made sense. I went with a Trek Checkpoint SL5 instead, but that's not a ding against the Warroad - I just couldn't find a Warroad to demo and pulled the trigger on the Trek (which is also a rad do everything bike).

**Skistack** · 07-01-2020, 04:35 PM

So new Warbird owner here. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE IT! So much so that I ordered a wheelset for road tires and will probably ditch the road bike.

With the longer, slacker geo, it definitely handles slower than my road bike, and it doesn't accelerate or roll as fast but the new tires & wheelset will narrow that gap.

I've got the GRX 600 build, it comes in at a little over 20 pounds, but the stock wheelset is dogshit. Lighter wheelset and 32c road tires should cut about 2 pounds.

**Tailwind** · 07-01-2020, 04:50 PM

I have a Santa Cruz Stigmata (Kinda between a Warroad and Warbird) it will ride pavement well. I have some 40c Maxxis Velocita's that are pretty fast but at the same time, it's not a performance road bike. It doesn't corner as well and is probably 5-10% slower while also being a little less fun. I can press it pretty far and ride singletrack when I want with the knobby tires. That being said... for straight up gravel and rough terrain I wish I could fit bigger than the 40c tires. It's a good bike for most things, great few things.

Warroad - Going to ride a lot like a normal road bike on pavement, with 650's you could try out mixed riding and gravel and have an okay time.
Warbird - Awesome Gravel Bike - Kinda Meh as a road bike but will still let you have fun and get some miles in.
Cutthroat - Good Gravel Bike that can be pressed into rougher terrain and singletrack. Will feel a lot like riding a mountain bike on pavement from a geometry level.

**El Chupacabra** · 07-01-2020, 06:39 PM

Are any of you riding your gravel bikes on real singletrack? I've seen a couple people riding them locally on stuff that calls for a real mountain bike, unless you weigh 90# and/or want to damage rims. (For Reno Tahoe locals, I've seen them out on Peavine and on the TRT from Mt Rose meadows.)