Gravel/Bikepack nerds enter...

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

Moving from a 10 speed Tiagra/GRX400 to an 11 speed 105/ultegra mix for $300 seems like money well spent to me.

Unless clearing 50mm tires for the singletrack parts of your rides is the most important thing to you?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I’ve never owned a drop bar bike. But I’m contemplating buying a gravel bike. Would mainly be used on road and mellow single track. I’m completely oblivious to geo on gravel bikes. And have a minimal understanding of gravel group set. I’m looking at a few different bikes. GT carbon grade elite (grx400 group set), GT carbon grade expert (grx brakes, 105 shifters and front derailleur, ultegra rear) and Canyon grill cf (grx40p group set). They all seem fairly similar, the GT expert has the best components. Is the extra $300 worth it for the the better components? The Canyon accepts wider tires 50mm vs 42mm. I’d appreciate any feedback. I’m just looking for a bike I can ride from my house after work and not have to load up a mountain bike to drive to trails. Basically a performance fitness bike that’s off road capable and more comfortable than a road bike.


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Surly Grappler maybe


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[altacoup]

Moving from a 10 speed Tiagra/GRX400 to an 11 speed 105/ultegra mix for $300 seems like money well spent to me.

Unless clearing 50mm tires for the singletrack parts of your rides is the most important thing to you?

This is probably my biggest doubt as I have no idea about drop bar group sets. But it seems that most people say is worth spending the extra cash. Is the difference very appreciable? In MTB group sets I feel like the difference between slx and xt is so minimal it isn’t worth paying more.

[climberevan]

The difference is noticeable. GRX400 is more like Deore.

It's worth noting that the shifter shape is different between Ultegra and GRX, and some prefer the GRX shape for off road. I wouldn't buy a 10s group in 2023, however.

I'd choose 50mm of clearance over 42mm anytime. Unless you really are going to mostly ride pavement and really smooth dirt, you'll want 45s at some point.

[fool]

Have you seen the new price drop on Lauf bikes? A lot of bike for the money.
Mounts are really not necessary for bike packing anymore, the new bags are good just strapping them to the frame or saddle/post.

https://www.laufcycling.com/product/seigla-rigid

Thanks. Yeah, I think someone posted them last time, but I didn't see the latest (?) price drop. $2200 for that build seems solid. But yeah, the Lauf stack seems low (though I wouldn't have been able to put a finger on that like even did).

As I've noted before, Lauf can offer great value IF you like a really low stack. Check geometry carefully.


If you're ok with building one, Chinese frames can be had for $800 or so, and certainly a nice full build would come in under $3k. I love my Carbonda 707.

Ooh...intriguing. Do you know if that's the same as a Boltcutter frame? My buddy has one and thinks it might be the same. Good idea.

[climberevan]

. Do you know if that's the same as a Boltcutter frame? My buddy has one and thinks it might be the same. Good idea.

They won't tell you, or they might claim that they get a custom layup or some BS, but their High Country gravel frame sure looks like a 707. Geometry matches too. Hmm.

The Carbonda 696 was super popular and used by a bunch of the "brands" that just import and resticker Chinese frames. It has a little more traditional geo than the 707. 707 is very similar to a Canyon Grizl, and also has clearance for 50s. I've ridden mine several thousand miles, including a 3 week loaded bikepacking trip in New Zealand, and it's been fine.

[Tailwind]

I think I’m joining the “hardtails might make more sense” bandwagon.

I did a 45 mile MTB ride on my full suspension yesterday (11.8mph average) and felt fine after. Today I did a 52 mile gravel ride (11.8 mph average) and feel like I got my ass kicked. I live in the desert (grand junction) and it doesn’t take much for a gravel bike to feel overwhelmed. Sand, rocks, loose, etc and you’d much much rather be on a hardtail. In my area there are brief areas where you zip along… then around the next bend you just get chattered to death or hit sand and try to stay upright.

The ride today was on mostly dirt roads and I was with my wife who was on a specialized epic hard tail with a dropper and 2.35 tires (renegade front and rear). I was on a Canyon Grizl with 42mm tires. The bikes weigh about the same but hers has a fancy build and is a hair lighter. I’m a fitter rider but couldn’t keep up the moment roads were not well groomed. I’d struggle to maintain control over washboard and she’d casually coast away. There were a few mildly sandy climbs where I’d be pedaling at around 400 watts and just trying to keep the bike under control and she’d be effortlessly spinning up. Even if climbs like that are only a mile or two they really destroy your legs. I went into the route thinking it would be ideal for the gravel bike… but about 10 miles were beyond what the bike wanted to do and that was enough.

I might buy some 50c tires… or sell the current bike and buy a salsa cutthroat… or just swing for a ti hardtail.

I wouldn't worry about those component differences. Unless you're talking about butter smooth singletrack, I'd opt for the widest tires you can get. Or, depending how long of road rides you're talking, a hardtail mtb with fast rolling tires might even be better. Gravel bikes may be all the rage these days but they're still not the right tool for singletrack with any technicality.

[plugboots]

^^^ you seem like a prime candidate for a custom Ti.


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[joetron]

Rode the Iron Horse 55mi gravel race this morning. First real test of the Tubolight front and rear. Was rad. Definitely saved my bacon coming down Horse Gulch and took the edge off a lot of little bumps and washboard. Felt great during descents.
Started the day at 35psi front and rear on a 45c Rambler. Bled some air out at first aid station. Guesstimate of 30psi now, and that was much better. Could probably
even go a skooch lower than where I’m at now.


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[climberevan]

Joetron, how much do you weigh? I run 25psi in my 45mm tires and can go lower if the terrain isn't high speed and rocky. No inserts. It's what Silca's pressure calculator recommends for me at 172# (body, bike, gear) on "class 4" terrain, whatever that is.

A while back I let out some air on the trail to try that out. Traction was definitely increased, but I had a couple of light rim strikes. When I got home I checked it and only had 18psi in the rear, which was obviously too low. But I learned that I can get away with 23 or so on smoother stuff, and enjoy the extra traction.

[joetron]

Body weight is around 168 rn. So probably running a bit high. I tend to run higher psi on mtb in general but I bet 25 will be close to sweet spot.
I do see a lot of bouncy, under inflated gravel tires out on rides so I’m a bit gun shy of going too low.
Telluride Gravel is in 2 weeks, so I have some time to tweak things, but overall I’m feeling pretty good about gravel inserts.
You can actually make a bit of time on descents, and not constantly worrying about flats is a plus and handling is noticeably improved .


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[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I think I’m joining the “hardtails might make more sense” bandwagon.

I did a 45 mile MTB ride on my full suspension yesterday (11.8mph average) and felt fine after. Today I did a 52 mile gravel ride (11.8 mph average) and feel like I got my ass kicked. I live in the desert (grand junction) and it doesn’t take much for a gravel bike to feel overwhelmed. Sand, rocks, loose, etc and you’d much much rather be on a hardtail. In my area there are brief areas where you zip along… then around the next bend you just get chattered to death or hit sand and try to stay upright.

The ride today was on mostly dirt roads and I was with my wife who was on a specialized epic hard tail with a dropper and 2.35 tires (renegade front and rear). I was on a Canyon Grizl with 42mm tires. The bikes weigh about the same but hers has a fancy build and is a hair lighter. I’m a fitter rider but couldn’t keep up the moment roads were not well groomed. I’d struggle to maintain control over washboard and she’d casually coast away. There were a few mildly sandy climbs where I’d be pedaling at around 400 watts and just trying to keep the bike under control and she’d be effortlessly spinning up. Even if climbs like that are only a mile or two they really destroy your legs. I went into the route thinking it would be ideal for the gravel bike… but about 10 miles were beyond what the bike wanted to do and that was enough.

I might buy some 50c tires… or sell the current bike and buy a salsa cutthroat… or just swing for a ti hardtail.

Constantly wondering if your tires and bike were the right choices for the ride you're on is pretty much peak gravel. Sounds to me like you nailed it?

Seriously though, washboard sucks so bad on a gravel bike that I personally don't think the jump from 42 to 50 will be much of a game-changer. I kind of scoff at suspension on gravel bikes, but if I had to ride a lot of washboard I'd seriously consider it.

[Tailwind]

Glad to know I’ve hit the right mindset! I think there is a lot of variation to what is ‘gravel’. Mountain bikes it’s pretty well understood that there are enduro bikes and XC bikes and that they’re for different types of riding. Gravel doesn’t quite have categories defined as clearly.

It seems like gravel bikes get used in a lot of different ways and likely need some variation but I do agree suspension on gravel bikes just seems a bit outlandish (I have thought about it though).

I tend to agree on the 50c tires. The one thought would be that I already own this bike and it would at least help a bit in loose terrain and sand but I think the answer is either pick the roads I’ll ride selectively or buy a burlier bike.

Constantly wondering if your tires and bike were the right choices for the ride you're on is pretty much peak gravel. Sounds to me like you nailed it?

Seriously though, washboard sucks so bad on a gravel bike that I personally don't think the jump from 42 to 50 will be much of a game-changer. I kind of scoff at suspension on gravel bikes, but if I had to ride a lot of washboard I'd seriously consider it.

[climberevan]

Glad to know I’ve hit the right mindset! .

Watch out, though: that kind of thinking will bleed into your mountain biking too. I def think more about tires on my MTB now that I'm doing a lot of gravel riding.

[jamal]

I've always wondered a bit what having a topstone with a lefty and chunky 650b tires would be like. But at that point I do have a hardtail I could ride that would weigh about the same.

Biggest tires that fit plus low pressure definitely goes a long way on rougher stuff though. My 40 pirellis measure almost 44 on a 23mm hookless rim, which, I actually wish they were smaller because it just barely doesn't rub in the chainstays and has no mud clearance or anything. But I can probably go down a bit in pressure, been at like 33/37 f/r on a topeak d2 at 160lbs.

[grskier]

I think I’m joining the “hardtails might make more sense” bandwagon.

I did a 45 mile MTB ride on my full suspension yesterday (11.8mph average) and felt fine after. Today I did a 52 mile gravel ride (11.8 mph average) and feel like I got my ass kicked. I live in the desert (grand junction) and it doesn’t take much for a gravel bike to feel overwhelmed. Sand, rocks, loose, etc and you’d much much rather be on a hardtail. In my area there are brief areas where you zip along… then around the next bend you just get chattered to death or hit sand and try to stay upright.

The ride today was on mostly dirt roads and I was with my wife who was on a specialized epic hard tail with a dropper and 2.35 tires (renegade front and rear). I was on a Canyon Grizl with 42mm tires. The bikes weigh about the same but hers has a fancy build and is a hair lighter. I’m a fitter rider but couldn’t keep up the moment roads were not well groomed. I’d struggle to maintain control over washboard and she’d casually coast away. There were a few mildly sandy climbs where I’d be pedaling at around 400 watts and just trying to keep the bike under control and she’d be effortlessly spinning up. Even if climbs like that are only a mile or two they really destroy your legs. I went into the route thinking it would be ideal for the gravel bike… but about 10 miles were beyond what the bike wanted to do and that was enough.

I might buy some 50c tires… or sell the current bike and buy a salsa cutthroat… or just swing for a ti hardtail.

Care sharing your rides out there? My cousin just moved out there and I am down that way 8+ times/year.

[Kevo]

I've always wondered a bit what having a topstone with a lefty and chunky 650b tires would be like. But at that point I do have a hardtail I could ride that would weigh about the same.

Biggest tires that fit plus low pressure definitely goes a long way on rougher stuff though. My 40 pirellis measure almost 44 on a 23mm hookless rim, which, I actually wish they were smaller because it just barely doesn't rub in the chainstays and has no mud clearance or anything. But I can probably go down a bit in pressure, been at like 33/37 f/r on a topeak d2 at 160lbs.

My parents have topstone leftys that they seem to really like. They wanted the compliance in the rear triangle and the suspension lefty fork to smooth out rides. Both of them have carpel tunnel issues that are exacerbated by vibration on the handlebar of normal road bikes. They say the topstone lefty is much more comfortable for them.

[buttahflake]

Wednesday gravel night in Putney, VT. Fun group, No drop. Hammer and then regroup. If you find yourself near Putney on a Wednesday, leaves from West Hill Shop at 5:00.

[buttahflake]

From this morning in the Shire

[buttahflake]

Local Hero, Logan Kasper has a commanding lead at the Unbound XL, as of this morning. No one suffers like Logan. A couple of years ago he Everested on the coldest night of the year in January. He camped out and rode his fatbike all through the night. Hope he wins this thing. They were pelted by hail and thunderstorms for much of yesterday.

http://trackleaders.com/unboundxl23f.php

[altacoup]

So I’ve narrowed down my selection to these 2 bikes. Is the carbon frame and better components of the GT worth the extra $? I’m inclined to get the canyon and save money but the GT is probably a more compliant/comfortable ride. Just not sure how important that’ll be.

https://www.backcountry.com/gt-grade...rt-gravel-bike

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/gravel-...zl-6/2844.html


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[bodywhomper]

Suggestions for my kiddo as HS graduation gift. Our budget isn’t robust.

Update: got him a new State Bicycles 4130 with flat bars and 650B. The pricing was hard to beat and being fully built made it easy. He’s stoked! Had it for only 2 days. About 4 hours in the saddle so far exploring our neighborhood. A new freedom for him.

[Jax]

Local Hero, Logan Kasper has a commanding lead at the Unbound XL, as of this morning. No one suffers like Logan. A couple of years ago he Everested on the coldest night of the year in January. He camped out and rode his fatbike all through the night. Hope he wins this thing. They were pelted by hail and thunderstorms for much of yesterday.

http://trackleaders.com/unboundxl23f.php

A massive win. And there looks to be a girl to come in top 10 as well, maybe even top 5 overall. Fantastic.

Unbound's social coverage of the XL race has been piss poor since Logan won awhile ago, no fanfare or anything. Yet they've been posting all day. Same for Luke who just finished 2nd. The unsung heroes of the race because most people have never heard of them.

[buttahflake]

Huge win! Another local hero, from Lyme NH is currently in 3rd place in the Elite Women’s 200. Sarah Lange, she’s a wicked Nordic skier and just totally bad-ass! Her first time at Unbound.

[climberevan]

I just did a race, my first in 10 years. Lost and Found gravel 100 near Portola, CA.

Racing is still hard, and I shouldn't have stayed with the first group on the first hill, but I managed to just ride through some cramps that started 2:30 in. Various groups formed and broke up, and I mostly had people to ride with.

2nd in the 41-50 AG was satisfying, and I would have been 23rd in the pro category. I'm pretty tired.