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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    1,377

    Rebuilding the 3+ ski quiver.

    This is for Hakuba.
    I'm 43. Used to be strong. One year post-ACL reconstruction. Ironically, I still go fast. Will be working in the industry next season with a career change. I expect to be on the hill more than the current 20-30 days/yr. I want this quiver to last about 5 years.

    Keeping:
    New Snow/Fresh lines/Forest Ski:
    - '13 4FRNT Renegade 186. 122mm underfoot and reverse camber. STH16.

    Need & Considering:
    New Snow Resort/Crud/Variable/Side-Country Ski:
    - ON3P Billy Goat + P18/CAST.

    Old Snow Resort/Variable/Side-Country Ski:
    - Mantra M5 + P18CAST (?) ... debate being the high alpine melt/freeze April/May touring season. If my crud ski (Billy Goat) can pull rank on melt/freeze, maybe this M5 class will be designated to groomers... in which case it won't get CAST.

    - I'm also interested in blending the two above skis into one category with an ON3P Wren 108ti, or a K2 Mindbender 108ti. Can they pull old snow/groomer duty during high pressures? I demoed the 108ti Mindbender on firm groomers and was legitimately surprised at its edge hold... just weary of its crud performance the day after the storm. I fear the tip folds. And the day after the storm is when my Renegade is lacking the suspension of traditional camber.

    As such, it makes sense to buy two skis for both old and new/crud snow resort days. Either way, My Renegade is still designated to fresh forest lines.

    Looks like I'll be driving these with Lange RS130s and Full Tilt Ascendants.

    Maybe a trip to NZ this year.

    I don't care about price, I just want it right.
    Thoughts?

    Discarding:
    2006 Nordica Jet Fuel: 126-84-112 r20 186. These skis absolutely ripped but are just too much now. Too stiff, too much camber. Only turn at mach looney. (But man they were fun on the firm in March when I was super strong.)

    2004 Volkl Gotama. Need I say more? At this point it's just a family ski with the kids, but I'll be damned if that wasn't the most legit, cadillac, legend-of-a-ski I have ever owned. The ski is fine, but the binding is bullshit.
    Last edited by gaijin; 04-20-2019 at 04:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    600
    I think the three ski quiver you outline sounds very thought out, where each ski fulfills a very specific role and covers most conditions very, very well.

    Personally I feel that the BG vs Wren108 (or 114) debate comes down how one prefers to ski - or rather, how one prefers to drive/stand atop the ski. I never quite clicked with my BGs, but love my Wren108s to death prefering to let the edge do most of the work for me when turning, not pivot. I think Wrens slay variable with aplomb, but others disagree saying there is no comparison between Wrens and BGs. I dunno - to each their own I guess.

    I still think a middle step between a low tide Mantra and a full on pow Renegade makes more sense than going for a 122 ski and a 108 ski. A slightly narrower and more energetic ski does have a place in the quiver making groomer days all the more enjoable, so I would keep the quiver at three skis if I were you.

    I would also go for Cast on both of the narrower skis as well, for maximum versatility. Other than cost, Cast has no real downside for the uses you lay out imo - but provides you with an upside imo, the ability to tour on a narrower and (ever so slightly) lighter ski.

    Personally, I would go for a Renegade + Wren 108 ti + Mantra quiver for a three ski quiver - though the three ski quiver you lay out sounds pretty damned good as well (and the latter probably being the one most mags would go for of the two)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    5,121
    I think Just going to the onsen when itís old snow sounds better
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16

    2018/2019 (24/32)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    5,494

    Rebuilding the 3+ ski quiver.

    Not sure what the snow is like in Hakuba, but out here, if you go 105ish underfoot for a charger ski, I donít see a major reason to go Billy Goat and Mantra to make a 3 ski quiver. You would be just fine with the two skis.

    In wide open terrain, modern narrower skis with a good rocker profile do just fine for those first few untracked runs in our fluff. And they can perform better than the 115mm class once it gets tracked out. Theyíre often a better choice. For manky deep snow locales like the PNW or Tahoe, a fatter daily driver can make sense though.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
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    3,132
    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    Will be working in the industry next season with a career change. I expect to be on the hill more than the current 20-30 days/yr. I want this quiver to last about 5 years.
    The ski industry? That means you re-think your quiver every year!

    How about Black Crows Nocta, Rustler 11, Mindbender 99ti . . . ?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    4,240
    I donít think peeps know how the mindbender will hold up to extended use.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bozeman
    Posts
    671

    Rebuilding the 3+ ski quiver.

    Doesn't make sense to me to have alpine bindings on your big pow ski and CAST on your heavier, crud busting ski. I don't live in Japan so take this with a giant grain of salt, but If I was set on 3 skis I'd do this:

    118+ waist with Shift/CAST/Tecton. Could you just remount your Renegades for this? If not the new, lighter renegade, Head Kore, Nocta, QST 118, Protest, 138 would all be on my list.

    105 - 112 waist with P18/916/Shift/CAST depending on what you want to use this for. Personally I'd go Shift or CAST and use this as your travel ski for NZ. There are so many good skis in this category.

    90 waist with alpine bindings if you need a groomer only ski. Or inserts for alpine and tech binders if this will see more duty as a longer touring ski than a high speed groomer ski.
    Last edited by kathleenturneroverdrive; 04-20-2019 at 08:04 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    471
    You want a 188 Prior Husume.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    526

    Rebuilding the 3+ ski quiver.

    My (fairly limited) impression of Hakuba-area snow is that itís often similar to Tahoe snow. It seems relatively warm there and the snow is denser than the blower that everyone in the us seems to expect from japan because of Hokkaido, and it seems like storms often come with a ton of wind like in Tahoe.

    So, Iím fully on board with a billy goat as a daily driver for Hakuba. For places like instantly skied-out kortina side-country trees itís the perfect tool. Itís also great for skiing mank after big warm storms or when the sun has got on the pow. I think a wren 108 is narrower than Iíd want most of the time in Hakuba. I wouldnít want to tour on billy goats for weight, but if youíve got the legs have at it I guess.

    For spring skiing I donít think anything is really bad, but the billy goat is kind of the last thing Iíd want to use. My 12/13s donít have much edgehold and 116 is a lot of ski to roll over on 2d snow.

    If I skied mostly resort and sidecountry in Hakuba and had three skis, I think Iíd want Noctas with a touring binding (light enough to do long tours, plenty of ski for inbounds deep untracked), billy goats with pivots for most days and something around 90-100 wide for spring skiing.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Land of the Long Flat Vowel
    Posts
    791
    Disclaimer: I have only been to Hakuba three times, and only in Late Jan/early Feb, so my experience is limited.

    Despite bringing other skis, I have only ever skied my Protests. Yes, the snow warms up quickly on a sunny day, but there's lots of it, and width is needed. I have skied blower every day in Hakuba, though not all day every day. A not too heavy powder ski (Protest/Nocta/Ren/etc) with something like Tectons or ATK 14s would be my first choice.

    Nr 2 would be a 100-105mm with a bit of backbone, but not too heavy, inserted for tech binders and your STH16s. Maybe a Dynastar X106, Fischer Ranger 102fr, Head Kore 99/105. Something that will spring tour, yet also make groomers fun, ski the odd bit of powder, and make a great travel ski. https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ght=travel+ski

    Good luck.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    600
    lots of solid advice in the thread! The insight on BGs suitability for the snow in your stomping ground seem like solid advice

    Agreed on Shifts/Tectons on the Rens - if possible mount wise - that seems like a logical way of making the skis even more versatile without loosing much.

    I almost bought a pair of Fischer Ranger 102fr today (they sold the last 177 pair earlier today...), but based on its reviews I would perhaps not run them as a number two ski in this kind of quiver or as touring dedicated ski. They seem like a killer playful resort slayer that performs better the faster you take them though, though I kinda imagine that the attributes that make em solid in the resort makes em less than stellar outside of it. I might be 100% wrong - I have never skied them.

  12. #12
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    Feb 2011
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    Land of the Long Flat Vowel
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    791
    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    lots of solid advice in the thread! The insight on BGs suitability for the snow in your stomping ground seem like solid advice

    Agreed on Shifts/Tectons on the Rens - if possible mount wise - that seems like a logical way of making the skis even more versatile without loosing much.

    I almost bought a pair of Fischer Ranger 102fr today (they sold the last 177 pair earlier today...), but based on its reviews I would perhaps not run them as a number two ski in this kind of quiver or as touring dedicated ski. They seem like a killer playful resort slayer that performs better the faster you take them though, though I kinda imagine that the attributes that make em solid in the resort makes em less than stellar outside of it. I might be 100% wrong - I have never skied them.
    Thread drift - sorry.
    Just bought a pair of Ranger 102fr - 184 straight pull - and will mount them with CAST/Pivot, so we shall see. Will be my travel ski. They are stiff, have beautiful rocker (a lot like my old Praxis BCs), and weigh 2050gr. Obviously not a dedicated touring ski, but I'll happily do a week of 3-5000ft days on that setup.
    Last edited by Island Bay; 04-20-2019 at 02:52 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    600
    sounds good - please keep us posted!

    The Ranger 102fr pretty much sounds like my ideal resort slayer mounted at +2 or +3 from the research I did earlier today. I first saw an amazing deal on them that made me curious. Then the reviews made me want to pounce, but alas I would have mounted Pivots on them like you are going to - so Cast seem like a perfect way to gain versatility.

    yeah - sorry for the slight drift too

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    SF & the Ho
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    5,575
    Quote Originally Posted by whyturn View Post
    I think Just going to soapland when itís old snow sounds better
    Fify

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,377
    Lots of interesting thoughts in here. Thanks so far!

    Anyone have any knowledge of the STH16 & Shift hole conflicts? Or STH/Tecton?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
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    19,940
    30+ days a year working in the industry and you don't want to buy skis again for 5 years?
    lolwut
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    1,377
    Iím sure Iíll be getting new skis more frequently. But I would like them to be designs that have cult followings like my Renegade that outlast your average new hot thing on the market every season. I could have worded that better.

  18. #18
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    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
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    19,940
    Sounds good. No worries.
    Hard thing to call, though.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    1,377
    Hard to calló but you are the guys who develop the cults.

    The Nocta came up a couple of times.

    Probably better off not remounting my Rens and just getting a designated touring ski and a designated crud/resort ski. Pull groomer zoomers from the shop during dry spells.

    That M5 category makes less sense today after reading through the replies.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    西 雅 圖
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    I don’t think peeps know how the mindbender will hold up to extended use.
    You think it may wear out after a few months?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    4,240
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    You think it may wear out after a few months?
    Idk. OP is hoping for multiple years of use. Unclear how many vert feet of skiing that would be.

    Do you have info to share about how the skis are holding up, comparing well used pair to new or almost new? I'm admittedly skeptical about k2.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

  22. #22
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Do you have info to share about how the skis are holding up, comparing well used pair to new or almost new? I'm admittedly skeptical about k2
    I didn't get a pair but friends at work did under the shop "Proto" program and have been flogging them hard for a couple months with no problems . . . still loving the skis, both 99 and 108.

  23. #23
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    But I would like them to be designs that have cult followings . . .
    The Soul 7 and Wailer 112 had cult followings but I was never one of the worshippers . . .

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    1,733
    There was some hole conflict issues when I pulled the SHIFTS off my Protests and remounted then with Pivots. I filled the SHIFT holes with wood dowels epoxied in and didnít have any issues with the second mount.

    Protests with P18 CAST will go to Japan with me next time I go and are the way to go. Iíll also have with me something slightly narrower, 108-116mm wide, probably with Kingpins. I just had too many issues with SHIFTs to spend money on them again.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    1,377
    A lot of people like the protest in Japan. Iím considering it with cast.

    I donít think Iíll remount my renegades. Too much bs for what is already a perfect storm day ski.

    Still considering a Mindbender 108ti as I skied it know it rips on firm. But that new wren 108ti might be a better option. Definitely heavy with CAST but Hakuba tours are short. Generally.

    Nowó Wren or Billy Goat feels like the debate. RES is super intriguing but I also like carving.

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