Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 80
  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    my own little world
    Posts
    2,544

    Microsoft ending Windows 7 support

    Paranoid enough to run DBAN but pissy that ongoing support and patching overhead necessitates eventual end of life for OS to make room for ongoing development and support for new OSs.

    Sure, buddy.

    People are fucking weird.
    focus.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    11,730
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Paranoid enough to run DBAN but pissy that ongoing support and patching overhead necessitates eventual end of life for OS to make room for ongoing development and support for new OSs.

    Sure, buddy.

    People are fucking weird.
    You don't need to be nasty to cover up the fact that you don't know the answer. Silence would be more effective.
    Besides, there's nothing contradictory about being paranoid and pissy. The two actually go together quite well.
    And yes, people are weird.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    my own little world
    Posts
    2,544

    Microsoft ending Windows 7 support

    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    You don't need to be nasty to cover up the fact that you don't know the answer. Silence would be more effective.
    Besides, there's nothing contradictory about being paranoid and pissy. The two actually go together quite well.
    And yes, people are weird.
    Answer to what? If youíre resorting to physical destruction drilling through the platters is less messy than a maul, and probably more reliable. I prefer to take them apart; then you can recover the magnets to amuse the grandkids and teach them about blood blisters.

    You should google the DBAN errors. Lots out there on non-fatal errors. For example, did you unplug any/all other drives (usb, flash readers, etc.)?

    Silence isnít effective to do what you think Iím trying to do just because you say it is. Did you actually think that one through? Or are you that self absorbed? (Just throwing rocks over here, buddy, donít get all twisted up).

    And this is some shit that typically annoys me, because youíre right, those who are security conscious around the margins (DBAN, etc.) are often the same ones who canít figure out why updates and upgrades are required. They understand the value of security and even have a good handle on physical security, but canít seem to grasp that information security is a constantly moving target.
    focus.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    11,730
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Answer to what? If you’re resorting to physical destruction drilling through the platters is less messy than a maul, and probably more reliable. I prefer to take them apart; then you can recover the magnets to amuse the grandkids and teach them about blood blisters.

    You should google the DBAN errors. Lots out there on non-fatal errors. For example, did you unplug any/all other drives (usb, flash readers, etc.)?

    Silence isn’t effective to do what you think I’m trying to do just because you say it is. Did you actually think that one through? Or are you that self absorbed? (Just throwing rocks over here, buddy, don’t get all twisted up).

    And this is some shit that typically annoys me, because you’re right, those who are security conscious around the margins (DBAN, etc.) are often the same ones who can’t figure out why updates and upgrades are required. They understand the value of security and even have a good handle on physical security, but can’t seem to grasp that information security is a constantly moving target.
    Thanks for the condescending lecture. I'm very well aware of why updates and upgrades are required. Obviously I tried to Google solutions but couldn't find one that worked. I thought I might get lucky here but got you instead. And yes, I'm well aware that there are less destructive ways to physically disable a hard drive. A maul is just a running TGR joke. Now, do you have anything helpful to say?
    And you're right--silence is not an effective way to show you're a jerk.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    my own little world
    Posts
    2,544

    Microsoft ending Windows 7 support

    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Thanks for the condescending lecture. I'm very well aware of why updates and upgrades are required. Obviously I tried to Google solutions but couldn't find one that worked. I thought I might get lucky here but got you instead. And yes, I'm well aware that there are less destructive ways to physically disable a hard drive. A maul is just a running TGR joke. Now, do you have anything helpful to say?
    And you're right--silence is not an effective way to show you're a jerk.
    Sure, old man. Thanks for the lecture on TGR lore. Iíve been here since well before your grandkids were old enough to show you how to use a computer.

    If you actually wanted tech support on TGR youíd need to do better than vague descriptions of what an error message may or may not have said. You either donít know that, which would mean you arenít as smart as I think you probably are (and WAY dumber than YOU think you are) or youíre being disingenuous. Youíre just here spraying. So am I. Fuck off.
    focus.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Among Greatness All Around
    Posts
    5,257
    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Interesting.

    Also for the last several years, I believe PC's that came with 7 came with a license that includes an upgrade to 10. At least a lot of business PC's did.

    Tits are great, Apple products are overrated and overpriced. And the epitome of planned obsolescence. Other companies copying their design cues activity make my professional life harder so excuse me if I take it personally.

    Here, I'll make you a list of things Apple products do better than PC or Android in the year 2020:
    .
    ..
    ...
    Many manufacturers in the early years of Windows 10 availability still shipped the systems with Windows 7 loaded, but in fact had Windows 10 activation key embedded in the bios (or Win 8.x before the release of Win 10.) The Pro version of Windows and higher does allow for downgrade rights to run an earlier operating system. Many businesses either did not have software tested or updated to run on Windows 10 or did (and still do) not like the Windows 10 and feature updates as well as the idea that the updates were pushed out and they did not have as much control over when those were installed and PC's restarted. Privacy and some thinking that Windows 10 also is like spyware compared to the older versions and needing tin foil to protect themselves from Microsoft conquest of their computer....

    The downgrade can be undone by installing whichever version of the new OS (Win 8.x for older systems before the release of 10, or Win 10 if that is the license used for downgrade rights.)

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    11,730
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Sure, old man. Thanks for the lecture on TGR lore. I’ve been here since well before your grandkids were old enough to show you how to use a computer.

    If you actually wanted tech support on TGR you’d need to do better than vague descriptions of what an error message may or may not have said. You either don’t know that, which would mean you aren’t as smart as I think you probably are (and WAY dumber than YOU think you are) or you’re being disingenuous. You’re just here spraying. So am I. Fuck off.
    Res ipsa loquitor.

    For anyone else who might be inclined to give me actual advice--the error message was what I said "DBAN finished, non-fatal error."
    There is no further information. Prior to writing here I did change the boot order so the CD disk reader boots first, which at least got DBAN running. I had no drivers attached. As far as other solutions I tried several web sites but the discussions were highly technical and over my head. It's no problem for me to simple physically damage the hard drive, but I like to finish what I started when I can. So if anyone has any simple solutions comprehensible to someone with very limited computer skills, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, it's the maul.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Among Greatness All Around
    Posts
    5,257
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Res ipsa loquitor.

    For anyone else who might be inclined to give me actual advice--the error message was what I said "DBAN finished, non-fatal error."
    There is no further information. Prior to writing here I did change the boot order so the CD disk reader boots first, which at least got DBAN running. I had no drivers attached. As far as other solutions I tried several web sites but the discussions were highly technical and over my head. It's no problem for me to simple physically damage the hard drive, but I like to finish what I started when I can. So if anyone has any simple solutions comprehensible to someone with very limited computer skills, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, it's the maul.
    Non-fatal error- did you even then check after it ran to see if the data and partition(s) still were on the drive? The non-fatal error usually means that it did something and the log files (if you ran from a drive that was not CDR or something that it could not write back to, completed at least something and mostly worked.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,604
    Id say personally I wouldnt stress too much about Windows 7 End of life support. Sure you wont get fancy updates from MS, but if you run good AV, have some malware protection, and dont browse questionable content you should be basically fine. Feel free to answer nigerian emails no matter what OS you have...

    I have, believe it or not, in a production environment, for a VERY large corporation, Windows XP machines still running. Many windows 2003 servers and even a 100% production database running on SQL 2000. I inherited this mess, and am working to remedy it all, but its slow. We have had no "outbreaks" or virus or malware running rampant on the network due to these "unsupported" systems.

    YMMV.
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,021
    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    Windows 10 was released 5 yrs ago. How long do you expect MS to support a legacy OS, 10 years 20 years 50? Are you running some deprecated version of Firefox too?

    I think you got your money's worth on Windows 7.
    I have lots of money but its about > money

    this platform has worked really well since new, ze best of 6 IBM PC's
    I've had brand new pcs that wouldn run shit right out of the carboard suitcase
    the easiest thing is to do is to not have to do anything
    to leave well enough alone
    Does it matter MS support for 7 has gon sunset, probably not ?
    OR does windows 10 suck in which case I don't wana upgrade?
    OR have they fixed it and its OK to upgrade ?
    but then if 10 is ok will it run on the PC I got ?
    OR buy a new lenovo with 10 cuz from a HW perspective how long does an LT platform last ?
    IME not as long as this one has but the next one might suck dead goats right out of the suitcase

    really its about hassles

    spawned some great discussion eh
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    12,871
    Running 3 systems with Windows 10, 1 laptop, 1 desktop and 1 Tablet. All run OK but suddenly I am getting different Credential Errors that I am guessing are due to MS attempting to address the security concerns just revealed in Win 10.
    Ooof!

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Id say personally I wouldnt stress too much about Windows 7 End of life support. Sure you wont get fancy updates from MS, but if you run good AV, have some malware protection, and dont browse questionable content you should be basically fine. Feel free to answer nigerian emails no matter what OS you have...

    I have, believe it or not, in a production environment, for a VERY large corporation, Windows XP machines still running. Many windows 2003 servers and even a 100% production database running on SQL 2000. I inherited this mess, and am working to remedy it all, but its slow. We have had no "outbreaks" or virus or malware running rampant on the network due to these "unsupported" systems.

    YMMV.
    Unfortunately, it's no longer possible to avoid questionable content. "Malvertising" is a significant risk and there's no question that the professional bad guys will gin up an exploit before long. All that will be needed is for the malicious ad content to push your browser to the site with the exploit, which can happen with a mouse hover (or less). It will be much worse than the "scareware" with the flashing screen, sirens blaring, the message that your computer is infected and you have to call "Microsoft" right away. As ridiculous as it seems, we have had so many of our customers call the number on the screen instead of us, generally because it happened on their home computer. And an even larger number that did call us first, usually for work computers. The second group saved themselves a boatload of money and aggravation by making the right call.

    I have one remaining Windows 7 computer and I'm not even going to try to upgrade it; probably can't due to its age. It's only job is to act as a scanning station. So I gave it a static IP address with no default gateway. It's totally accessible by remote desktop when I want to use the scanner, but it will never connect to the Internet again. Which is why old operating systems and applications *can* be viable: keep them sequestered in an IT monastery and maybe they won't commit any sins...
    If it's too loud, you're too old

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    my own little world
    Posts
    2,544

    Microsoft ending Windows 7 support

    Unless youíre dealing with corporate legacy systems and all the inertia that brings, I canít think of any good reason to run an unsupported OS. And that corporation must not handle payment systems or be in a regulated industry.

    Like somebody said earlier, a new computer is $350. Just pony up and have done.
    focus.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    11,730
    Quote Originally Posted by RShea View Post
    Non-fatal error- did you even then check after it ran to see if the data and partition(s) still were on the drive? The non-fatal error usually means that it did something and the log files (if you ran from a drive that was not CDR or something that it could not write back to, completed at least something and mostly worked.
    Yes, all the data was still on the drive. There is an option to attach a flash drive to create a log; I didn't have one available. If that is necessary to solve the problem it will be cheaper and simpler to just wreck the HD before I drop off the pieces at Best Buy. Appreciate the suggestion.

    BTW--please don't let small kids play with rare earth magnets from electronic devices. If kids swallow a couple of them they wind up in adjacent loops of bowel, attract each other, and perforate the bowel. There have been a number of such cases.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    my own little world
    Posts
    2,544

    Microsoft ending Windows 7 support

    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    BTW--please don't let small kids play with rare earth magnets from electronic devices. If kids swallow a couple of them they wind up in adjacent loops of bowel, attract each other, and perforate the bowel. There have been a number of such cases.
    Have you ever seen an HDD magnet assembly, you old coot?

    Also, insert a weirdly aggressive ďthanks for the condescending lectureĒ diatribe.
    Last edited by Mustonen; 01-21-2020 at 06:49 AM.
    focus.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,604
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Unless you’re dealing with corporate legacy systems and all the inertia that brings, I can’t think of any good reason to run an unsupported OS. And that corporation must not handle payment systems or be in a regulated industry.

    Like somebody said earlier, a new computer is $350. Just pony up and have done.
    regulated (not ITAR). Public company. Accepts payments (rarely credit card). Antiquated manufacturing.
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I smell poutine!!!
    Posts
    9,346
    If you have legacy systems isolated, that will get you through a lot of the red tape. Manufacturing is notorious for using old stuff. For reasons that are obvious to anyone who has ever worked in or around manufacturing. It is profit motivated. Just like a vendor's decision to EOS something is profit motivated. Capitalism is freaking wonderful. We'd all pay a lot more for things if keeping hardware and software current was properly budgeted.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,604
    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    If you have legacy systems isolated, that will get you through a lot of the red tape. Manufacturing is notorious for using old stuff. For reasons that are obvious to anyone who has ever worked in or around manufacturing. It is profit motivated. Just like a vendor's decision to EOS something is profit motivated. Capitalism is freaking wonderful. We'd all pay a lot more for things if keeping hardware and software current was properly budgeted.
    My issue here is that it was allowed to go for so long that now they will feel the real impact of not doing things periodically. We were recently acquired by another large corp. New corp has actual standards...IMAGINE THAT. In process of upgrading everything. Had to spend like $40K just on a Palo Alto for the DMZ to keep old systems segregated from the new network. That will be $40K we use for 6 months. Total spend on IT so far since sept (new acquisition) $200K (not including ERP license transfers which were over $100K). Thats new Cisco networking gear, the new Palo Alto, new laptops/desktops. Still to be purchased, new VM Hosts, new VMWare licensing, new Cisco Wifi AP's. Probably push another $50K in the next few months.

    You are 100% right though. They let the systems age because its a profit based biz. I would argue, if I can push $16mil a quarter with the existing infrastructure and all it takes to keep running, what could I do if you invest $300K and we have less day to day break fix? $20mil a quarter? Sounds like it would pay for itself really fast...hard to convince bean counters though.
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    I smell poutine!!!
    Posts
    9,346
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    My issue here is that it was allowed to go for so long that now they will feel the real impact of not doing things periodically. We were recently acquired by another large corp. New corp has actual standards...IMAGINE THAT. In process of upgrading everything. Had to spend like $40K just on a Palo Alto for the DMZ to keep old systems segregated from the new network. That will be $40K we use for 6 months. Total spend on IT so far since sept (new acquisition) $200K (not including ERP license transfers which were over $100K). Thats new Cisco networking gear, the new Palo Alto, new laptops/desktops. Still to be purchased, new VM Hosts, new VMWare licensing, new Cisco Wifi AP's. Probably push another $50K in the next few months.

    You are 100% right though. They let the systems age because its a profit based biz. I would argue, if I can push $16mil a quarter with the existing infrastructure and all it takes to keep running, what could I do if you invest $300K and we have less day to day break fix? $20mil a quarter? Sounds like it would pay for itself really fast...hard to convince bean counters though.
    Impossible to convince bean counters. It's fuct. I got similar stories.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    my own little world
    Posts
    2,544
    To be fair, IT is pretty terrible at articulating capital requests.... sílong as weíre pointing fingers around....
    focus.

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    50 miles E of Paradise
    Posts
    8,730
    ^^^its not just corps. In 2008 my company was doing some desktop security work for NSA.

    They wouldn’t tell us exactly how many windows devices they had (“85,000 is a reasonable number for planning” they said).

    They did say that all but 1500 of those devices were running Win2K...
    Check Out Ullr's Mobile Avalanche Safety Tools for iOS and Android
    www.ullrlabs.com

  22. #72
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    11,604
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    To be fair, IT is pretty terrible at articulating capital requests.... s’long as we’re pointing fingers around....
    oh i do a decent job of articulating my requests and have good ideas on ROI.

    Im very glad the new ownership entity structures IT as a service. Over the years IT had gotten a bad rap as a "cost center", its not really. Aside from backend infrastructure (switches, servers, etc) and a few machines for technicians the direct cost of an IT dept is LOW. Its the other business units that are cost centers. Thats typically never realized by bean counters as its IT asking for the money. Basing it as a service allows you to see exactly what departments are cost centers. All IT at new corp is in house, but they bill back to the business unit. Its the way it should be everywhere.
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,021
    Quote Originally Posted by riser3 View Post
    If you have legacy systems isolated, that will get you through a lot of the red tape. Manufacturing is notorious for using old stuff. For reasons that are obvious to anyone who has ever worked in or around manufacturing. It is profit motivated. Just like a vendor's decision to EOS something is profit motivated. Capitalism is freaking wonderful. We'd all pay a lot more for things if keeping hardware and software current was properly budgeted.
    it would be early 90's in Vangroovy I had to fix a 0129 card punch in a major bank data center cuz they still had a job or 2 that used punch cards and their bill yearly bill was huge so you couldn't say I have no idea how to fix that ... just fake it

    shafts and bearings would be side to side wobbly so you pull it all into line with large cable ties which then became the bearing surface
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    11,730
    Quote Originally Posted by RShea View Post
    Non-fatal error- did you even then check after it ran to see if the data and partition(s) still were on the drive? The non-fatal error usually means that it did something and the log files (if you ran from a drive that was not CDR or something that it could not write back to, completed at least something and mostly worked.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    it would be early 90's in Vangroovy I had to fix a 0129 card punch in a major bank data center cuz they still had a job or 2 that used punch cards and their bill yearly bill was huge so you couldn't say I have no idea how to fix that ... just fake it

    shafts and bearings would be side to side wobbly so you pull it all into line with large cable ties which then became the bearing surface
    I learned to use Fortran to program a ballroom sized mainframe to add 2 + 2 with punch cards. And that's pretty much where my acquisition of computer skills stopped.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    19,021


    I never had to do any programming on punch cards, just try and fix them with no parts no training ... no idea
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •