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  1. #201
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs View Post
    Enough with the taxes already.
    You could turn him in to the IRS?
    I'm no tax accountant but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.
    $2,400,000 of unpaid taxes at 28% is $675,000 in unpaid taxes. Lets call it $67,500 per year for 10 years. IRS charges 3% so for 2009 taxes he owes $33,855 in interest alone, $29,880 for 2010 and so on...
    $67,500 in taxes with $195,800 in interest he owes the IRS $870,800

    Benny does the Government Whistle Blower program count for unpaid taxes? You could build the case and earn up to %15 of that money owing to the Government. Sounds like an easy $130,000 for you.
    All I know is, if you fucked up and wound up owing the IRS a fraction of that, all holy hell would come down on you.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  2. #202
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    General Sherman's Favorite City
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    Typically people don’t report imputed income on pocket cold cuts and baked goods.
    I still call it The Jake.

  3. #203
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Are you bored or something?

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  4. #204
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    Mar 2008
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    the ham
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
    Standing Ovation
    Agree. Solid work.

  5. #205
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    Mar 2006
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    General Sherman's Favorite City
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Are you bored or something?
    Rilassati benny, sei un buon sport. Colazione salsicce su di me la prossima volta.
    I still call it The Jake.

  6. #206
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    Mostly the Elks, mostly.
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    The ol' wife got 90 in the pokey, 5yrs probation, 300hrs community service.

    https://www.aspentimes.com/news/wife-of-embezzler-in-aspen-skiing-co-scheme-blames-husband-at-sentencing/


    Haven't heard if they face tax evasion fees or charges or what.

  7. #207
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    Jan 2019
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    I'm pretty sure the insurance company can go after them with a civil suit for the 6 million they had to pay out.

  8. #208
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    Oct 2003
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    The Shed of Incorruptible Veracity
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    He did it..

    One ski at a time!
    And it didnít cost him a dime
    He kept those fuckin ebay prices down



    Well, I left New England back in eighty nine
    An' went to Aspen workin' on a rental line
    The first year they had me puttin' boots on stinky feet
    Every day I'd watch them bunnies roll by
    And sometimes I'd hang my head and cry
    'Cause I always wanted me one that was skanky and sweet

    One day I devised myself a plan
    That should be the envy of most any man
    I'd sneak skis out of there and flip em on the old e bay
    Now gettin' caught meant gettin' fired
    But I figured I'd have a stack of cash by the time I retired
    I'd have me a gripload of at least a hundred grand.

    I'd get it one ski at a time
    And it wouldn't cost me a dime
    Iíd keep those fuckin ebay prices down

    I'm gonna boat around in style
    I'm gonna drive everybody wild
    Cause Iíll be the richest ski shop rat around.

    So the very next day when I punched in
    With some tape and boxes and with help from my friends
    I left that day with enough for a couple skiers
    I've never considered myself a thief
    But Aspen wouldn't miss just a couple a skis
    Especially if I strung it out over several years.

    The first day I got me some Salomon clamps
    And the next day I got me a pair of Ramps
    Then I got me a pair of Fischers and some Devastators
    Ordered things I needed like tape and a box
    And bindings an brakes an' they arrived at the shop
    But the big stuff we snuck out in my Lincoln Navigator

    Now, up to now my plan went all right
    'Til some accountants came to the shop one night
    And that's when they noticed that something was definitely wrong.
    The count said we had fifty three
    But we were supposed to have seventy three
    And when we tried to call the shop girls all them hoes were gone.
    So we worked it out so we wouldnít get caught
    Took a pile of cash but we paid em off
    That operation was runnin' just like a song

    Corporate oversight was another sight
    We had two on the left and one on the right
    But when we pulled out the coke all three of 'em didnít see shit
    The back end looked kinda funny too
    But we cooked those books and when we got through
    Well, that's when we noticed our ebay site had a million hits

    About that time my wife walked out
    And I could see in her eyes that she had her doubts
    But she opened the door and said "Honey, letís buy a boat"
    So we drove to the lake for a little cruise
    But we got lit up with the red-and-blues
    I could hear everybody laughin' for blocks around
    But up there at the court house they didn't laugh
    'Cause to type it up it took the whole staff
    And when they got through the charges weighed sixty pounds.

    I did it one ski at a time
    And it didnít cost me a dime
    I kept those fuckin ebay prices down
    Gonna spend 2 years in jail
    Then try Ďer again at Vail
    Iíll be richest ski-shop rat around

    Ugh! Yeah, RED RYDER
    This is the COTTON MOUTH
    With some janky ass rental skis for sale Come on
    Huh, This is the COTTON MOUTH
    And negatory on the cost of this biz-ness there RED RYDER
    You might say I went right up to the skico
    And picked it up, it's cheaper that way
    Okay, this is truly comedy gold and we all need a lift. Yetiman, or (with his permission, I assume) somebody else needs to record the cover version of this singing the lyrics you/he wrote. A good ski-related laugh would be good for all of us right now. I don't play any instruments, nor do I sing, otherwise I would step up, but somebody else should.
    The truth doesn't care about your feelings.

  9. #209
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    Oct 2009
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    seatown
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    3,673
    thanks for the bump, that is epic

  10. #210
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    Jul 2016
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    Mostly the Elks, mostly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    I'm pretty sure the insurance company can go after them with a civil suit for the 6 million they had to pay out.
    nailed it. $5.2 Million.

    https://www.aspentimes.com/news/aspe...-selling-scam/
    north bound horse.

  11. #211
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    Jun 2020
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    in a freezer in Italy
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiddleOfNight View Post
    It still kills me that they stole the boxes they used to ship the stolen skis in.

  12. #212
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    Mar 2012
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    The Bull City
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    They had excellent feedback scores. I was happy with my transaction..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  13. #213
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    16,363
    10/10 would shop again. Great seller.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  14. #214
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    Dec 2012
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    I smell poutine!!!
    Posts
    17,132
    0/10, we want our money back. - National Union Insurance Co.

  15. #215
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    Mar 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ųtzi View Post
    It still kills me that they stole the boxes they used to ship the stolen skis in.
    Smart. Pretty sure the cops would have been looking for someone who bought a buttload of ski shipping boxes..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  16. #216
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    Jan 2010
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    I canít believe they agreed to a plea deal and payment to Aspen with no regard to amounts owed the insurer. The insurer is often happy to take $.20 on the dollar, Iíve seen them agree to get as little as 5% back in exchange for not pressing charges.

    The only other angle I can see here is they assumed they were going to file bankruptcy anyway and now this will push them over the edge. Either that or they are going to be suing their attorney for malpractice.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  17. #217
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    Jan 2005
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    Keep Tacoma Feared
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    The reason the criminal plea agreement did not involve consideration of the insurance company's loss is the insurance company is not viewed as the victim in the criminal case. Further, prosecutors press charges, not victims (they may take a victim's wish into consideration but ultimately, prosecutors and prosecutors alone decide who gets charged). Prosecutors do represent the victim, they represent society as a whole. Victims are free to hire their own attorney in both criminal and civil matters.

    Even if the criminal restitution includes the entire loss, rather than just the deductible paid by Aspen Co., that does not prevent Aspen, or the insurance company, from suing the defendants in civil court (so there would be no advantage to the defendants if the restitution amount ordered in the criminal case included both Aspen and the insurance company). Criminal courts do not do a whole lot to try to collect on the restitution, so if you want to take matters into your own hands (like the insurance company here) you need to sue in civil court, obtain a judgment, then garnish wages, send to collections, ect. Aspen Co is free to sue in civil court as well (even though they have already been ordered restitution for their loss in the criminal case). I assume Aspen Co won't be suing because the cost of litigation would exceed what they are able to collect.

  18. #218
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    Nov 2005
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    13,498
    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    The reason the criminal plea agreement did not involve consideration of the insurance company's loss is the insurance company is not viewed as the victim in the criminal case.
    Your take sounds good but it seems wrong as a matter of Colorado law, because:

    Quote Originally Posted by Colorado Revised Statute 18-1.3-603
    (1) Every order of conviction of a felony, misdemeanor, petty, or traffic misdemeanor offense, except any order of conviction for a state traffic misdemeanor offense issued by a municipal or county court in which the prosecuting attorney is acting as a special deputy district attorney pursuant to an agreement with the district attorney's office, shall include consideration of restitution. Each such order shall include one or more of the following:

    ....[bunch of stuff about restitution...then this absolute fucking BANGER:]

    (4) (a) (I) Any order for restitution entered pursuant to this section is a final civil judgment in favor of the state and any victim. Notwithstanding any other civil or criminal statute or rule, any such judgment remains in force until the restitution is paid in full. The provisions of article 18.5 of title 16, C.R.S., apply notwithstanding the termination of a deferred judgment and sentence or a deferred adjudication, the entry of an order of expungement pursuant to section 19-1-306, C.R.S., or an order to seal entered pursuant to part 7 of article 72 of title 24, C.R.S.
    The googles suggests this sort of judgment is NOT dischargeable in bankruptcy, which makes sense, because lots of intentional conduct is excluded from BK discharge.

    Any CO lawyers want to weigh in on this?

  19. #219
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    Oct 2003
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    Big in Japan
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    I canít believe they agreed to a plea deal and payment to Aspen with no regard to amounts owed the insurer. The insurer is often happy to take $.20 on the dollar, Iíve seen them agree to get as little as 5% back in exchange for not pressing charges.

    The only other angle I can see here is they assumed they were going to file bankruptcy anyway and now this will push them over the edge. Either that or they are going to be suing their attorney for malpractice.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    How could they negotiate with the insurer? They were prosecuted for grand larceny from the Aspen, not insurance fraud. This is all after the fact. But somebody at the insurance legal department must be bored, because this is kind of dumb. Blood from a stone and all that. Both earners will never make enough to decently survive, let alone pay this thing off.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  20. #220
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    Dec 2012
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    14,473
    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Any CO lawyers want to weigh in on this?
    Nooooooo, the last thing we need is social services lawyers arguing with real estate lawyers here.*

    *I'd make an exception for Big Steve if he ever comes back. In addition to being an expert birder he was TGR's Perry Mason.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  21. #221
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    Nov 2005
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    This actually seems like something any half-assed civil litigator would know. Hell, I don't practice in CO and I knew to google it because I know that criminal restitution orders can be converted to civil judgments in MT. I get that I am not the legal wizard that Benny is, bless his heart, but I do my best.

  22. #222
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    Mar 2012
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    The Bull City
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    7,416
    If the insurance company paid Aspen then why are the criminals also paying Aspen? Aspen's been reimbursed. If anything Aspen should return to the insurance company any restitution received from the thief.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  23. #223
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    Dec 2020
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    985
    They have 3 kids in the middle of this shit. They are the real losers in all of this.

  24. #224
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    Dec 2012
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    14,473
    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    I get that I am not the legal wizard that Benny is, bless his heart, but I do my best.
    Don't sell yourself short versus Benny, but Big Steve always said, "there's nothing preventing anybody from suing anybody."
    I would like everyone to contemplate those words for a second.
    "timberridge is terminally vapid" -- a fortune cookie in Yueyang

  25. #225
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    Jan 2005
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    "Any order for restitution entered pursuant to this section is a final civil judgment in favor of the state and any victim. Notwithstanding any other civil or criminal statute or rule, any such judgment remains in force until the restitution is paid in full"

    I read that statute as the same as we have in Washington. That restitution orders entered in a criminal case carry the same force and effect as civil judgments. They can also be enforced just like civil restitution orders (garnishment, collections, ect). In other words, Aspen does not need to obtain a judgment (they already have one) but they would still need to sue to garnish wages. The insurance company needs to obtain a judgment before they can do mean things like garnish wages.

    In Washington, and I assume every state, you cannot discharge criminal restitution orders in bankruptcy. Also, here, you can get the interest on your court fines waived, but not the interest that applies to the restitution (typically something outrageous like 12%). Every dollar the defendant pays to the court goes to pay the restitution first, and in full, before any amount goes to the court. And you can never vacate, expunge, ect. a conviction until restitution is paid in full. But the bottom line is most restitution in criminal courts never gets paid in full. I think more victims in criminal courts should sue defendants and then garnish the defendant's wages. The prosecutor/court will not do this for you. People naively assume the court is doing everything they can to collect.

    One of my very first law jobs was an internship for a collections law firm in SLC whose main client was dentist and doctors suing single moms who couldn't pay their bills. I was told the firm accounted for something like 20% of all filings in the SLC court system. If was obviously a lucrative practice.

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