What are your disappointing destinations to ride at?

[beaterdit]

1st diagram appears to be EKG at Klondike Bluffs.

Truth! Worst trail evar!

[toast2266]

TWE
Ahab
Rockstacker/Jackson
Portal

What about Hell Canyon? That's 5.

Hell's been on my list to check out, but we're usually there in the spring before it's melted out.

[rip]

Please elaborate for me on what makes trails not disappointing.

I'm serious. I'm involved in building the 'new' bike park in telluride, however when I go to moab I have fun on pretty much every trail I ride there I love the raw technical trail, the punchy(but not too long) climbs,the rough descents, the technical obstacles and the variety of trail from slickrock to high desert to alpine..



So....What stokes you out on a trail? Already got the no climbs thing taken care of via lift serve..

would hate to spend years building trail to only have it called lame on the internet later.

[skaredshtles]

Hell's been on my list to check out, but we're usually there in the spring before it's melted out.

Yeah - we did a July trip out there. Specifically to hit TWE when it was NOT a shitshow, and to peg Hell's. We added the trail from Squaw Springs(?) over to Hell's.

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
would hate to spend years building trail to only have it called lame on the internet later.

Dude - WHATEVER you build, this is a guarantee. As a trailbuilder - you build what YOU like.

[rip]

Well yeah.. but this is a little different since it's a product we want to be attractive to curmudgeons far and wide! (Mainly just rich curmudgeons tho.. poor curmudgeons need not comment)

[skaredshtles]

Well yeah.. but this is a little different since it's a product we want to be attractive to curmudgeons far and wide! (Mainly just rich curmudgeons tho.. poor curmudgeons need not comment)

I'm rich.

I like fall-line trails with embedded rocks. But not too steep, 'cause I'm old and kind of a pussy.

That help?

[grskier]

Just watched the Hell's follow cam friday... looks like a lot of baby heads.

[simple]

Klonzo in Moab sucks balls. Most of that area is beginner friendly yawn fest.

[skaredshtles]

Just watched the Hell's follow cam friday... looks like a lot of baby heads.

It's loose and REALLY steep. I'm a puss (and was on shitty tires) so I walked some parts of it.

[rip]

I'm rich.

I like fall-line trails with embedded rocks. But not too steep, 'cause I'm old and kind of a pussy.

That help?

Sure does.. next question. How many good trails can a place have and still be disappointing?

[LeeLau]

Please elaborate for me on what makes trails not disappointing.

I'm serious. I'm involved in building the 'new' bike park in telluride, however when I go to moab I have fun on pretty much every trail I ride there I love the raw technical trail, the punchy(but not too long) climbs,the rough descents, the technical obstacles and the variety of trail from slickrock to high desert to alpine..



So....What stokes you out on a trail? Already got the no climbs thing taken care of via lift serve..

would hate to spend years building trail to only have it called lame on the internet later.

You can't satisfy everyone. Many of the people commenting don't like hyper-technical jank and/or don't like downhills followed by uphill. To restrain the butthurt that will freely follow whenever someone's manhood or riding ego is implicitly questioned it probably isn't a question of biking ability but rather personal preference.

As a trailbuilder I have learned to keep my expectations low and to build trail for myself. Now if the trail you're building in Telluride is for the masses then you'll be a tight spot since you'll be questioned and criticized by anyone and everyone in which case my advice holds doubly and you should build what you want (or if building for a trail org - build what the trail org wants)

[skaredshtles]

Sure does.. next question. How many good trails can a place have and still be disappointing?

Can't help you there... I'm rarely *truly* disappointed by any place I get to go ride my bike on dirt. If I came and rode Buff Crik from somewhere far away, I think I might be a bit bummed out.

[bagtagley]

Has your Mom’s house been mentioned yet?

[jono]

How many good trails does a place have to have to be disappointing?

FIFY

Some people will complain about climbing kickers. But little uphills mid-downhill are fine--even better if they let you switch muscles for a second or slow you down slightly or just provide a little added traction before some unavoidably tight corner.

[toast2266]

Please elaborate for me on what makes trails not disappointing.

I'm serious. I'm involved in building the 'new' bike park in telluride, however when I go to moab I have fun on pretty much every trail I ride there I love the raw technical trail, the punchy(but not too long) climbs,the rough descents, the technical obstacles and the variety of trail from slickrock to high desert to alpine..



So....What stokes you out on a trail? Already got the no climbs thing taken care of via lift serve..

would hate to spend years building trail to only have it called lame on the internet later.

When I say there's 4 (maybe 5) good trails in Moab, I don't mean that I actually dislike many of the others. But they're not the reason I go to Moab, and it doesn't really matter to me if I ride them in a given trip. So I wouldn't say they're disappointing, but I don't really get excited about them. People have mentioned EKG a lot. I actually like that trail alright. It has some fun, slow speed techy challenges. It's like a less good version of Blue Dot. But I'm not sitting at home, anxious to get back to Moab so I can ride that trail.

So anyways, I don't think there's any way to quantify what stokes me out on a trail, because it just depends on what the trail is trying to be. But ultimately, if it's my local trail, I'm happiest if the trail has enough option lines and variation in it that I can ride it 10 times and legitimately ride it differently every time. That goes for both flowy and techy trails. Otherwise shit just gets boring.

Beyond that, it just comes down to the terrain you have to work with.

[Dantheman]

The builder did a great job with what small hills he had to work with, IMO.

Strongly agree. What was he supposed to do there, build a mountain? Phil's is as good as it gets for mesa riding. Way better than Gooseberry, et al. IMO.

TWE
Ahab
Rockstacker/Jackson
Portal

What about Hell Canyon? That's 5.

Mega Steps/Baby Steps loop in Klondike is pretty good. Most of Klondike isn't worth riding, but even kidwoo likes that ride.

Has your Mom’s house been mentioned yet?

/rimshot

[kidwoo]

Hey rip, just remember this very important fact: people don't buy bike park tickets to pedal uphill. Just make it go down. Gently down, very down, whatever. Just down. Route accordingly from a mile back and don't build yourself into corners. Plan ahead down the trail. Very ahead. The good bike parks do this, and the bad ones dont. It shows.

[jm2e]

Please elaborate for me on what makes trails not disappointing.

I'm serious. I'm involved in building the 'new' bike park in telluride, however when I go to moab I have fun on pretty much every trail I ride there I love the raw technical trail, the punchy(but not too long) climbs,the rough descents, the technical obstacles and the variety of trail from slickrock to high desert to alpine..



So....What stokes you out on a trail? Already got the no climbs thing taken care of via lift serve..

would hate to spend years building trail to only have it called lame on the internet later.

You’re close enough that a trip to Angel Fire is highly recommended.
1. Raw, natural terrain from green through double black.
2. Flow trails aren’t perfect, but they’re constantly out there with crews working on them. You can’t plow a dirt highway down a mountain and expect it to maintain itself.
3. Trails link to other trails, etc, etc. You can do a dozen top to bottoms and go a different way each time.
4. More than one trail off the top, more than one trail to the base. I fucking hate it when the top 25% and bottom 25% of mountains are congested bottlenecks.

And, like Kidwoo said. People go to a bike park to go down. Pushing your DH bike 10 min from the top of the lift sucks. Pedaling your DH bike on a flat or climby gravel road to get back to the lift sucks. Think about what’s good & bad for skiing.


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[mmmm...pow!]

There's a section of the rim trail here in tahoe that's like that. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone likes that shit. It's like a stair master with a bike that just happens to be underneath you. Joined by 3 second descents.

Not sure which section you are talking about, as there's more than one that fits the description. It took many years, as well as the evolution of bikes and how I ride them, to figure out that for the most part the rim trail is just a way to access and link up other fun trails.

[bagtagley]

Moab is best ridden with a guide. Not somebody you pay, but somebody familiar with the riding there. Porcupine alone has so many killer lines and features that you'd never notice bombing by them. I rode Ahab for the first time in November, and was a little disappointed. Turns out we missed a lot of the good stuff just riding by it.

[TahoeJ]

Not sure which section you are talking about, as there's more than one that fits the description. It took many years, as well as the evolution of bikes and how I ride them, to figure out that for the most part the rim trail is just a way to access and link up other fun trails.

Sort of agree, but there are also some fun descents on the TRT (Mt. Baldy to 267 is a pretty fun sustained DH minus one little climb towards the end). But the section between the bottom of Painted Rock / top of the Wall and the descent to Tahoe City always bugs me. Really enjoy that descent but getting there is kind of a pain in the ass. I think that has more to do with the terrain though, I don't think they could have routed it all that differently.

[kidwoo]

Not sure which section you are talking about, as there's more than one that fits the description. It took many years, as well as the evolution of bikes and how I ride them, to figure out that for the most part the rim trail is just a way to access and link up other fun trails.

Definitely more than one.
I was thinking kingsbury to the bench. "technical pedaling" both up and down loses its novelty after a while. It's just so much wasted vert with no real sustained descending either way. The spurs on the lake side are better obviously.

I'd actually disagree on the rim as a whole. Some of the best sections of trail I've ridden anywhere are on the rim proper. There are some good sustained descents on some of it. Gotta keep them because every single bit of work that's gone on with the rim lately has made it worse.

[kidwoo]

Really enjoy that descent but getting there is kind of a pain in the ass. I think that has more to do with the terrain though, I don't think they could have routed it all that differently.

Next time you're pedaling up it, pay attention to the sides. It used to be way better. You can still see the old trailbed. It fell victim to squiggle fucking after a few years of bad blow down/deadfall.

[funkendrenchman]

Strongly agree. What was he supposed to do there, build a mountain? Phil's is as good as it gets for mesa riding.

I agree. I just didn't find it very fun.