Forerunner fucking rules.

[Jacques Strap]

This kinda post probably doesn't usually deserve it's own thread, but whatever. I bought a pair of skis from the Forerunner Shop in Killington, VT. Now, I have bought a number of things in my time, but this was easily, without a doubt, bar none, the best experience exchanging currency for material goods I've ever had. I know that sounds like hyperbole; it isn't.



What follows is the unedited, rambling, and epic recounting of my mogul ski procurement, replete with all the gory details. For the radio-edit:


Go to Forerunner. They are fucking great. Five-Star, Grade-A operation in every single way.



Particularly perceptive denizens of these forums will remember that I spent a lot of time and effort researching and (over)thinking the decision of what planks to buy as my first pair of skis. On a wild hair last October, I took the advice of one of the mogul skiers on PugSki and sent an e-mail to Forerunner just to see if they had any Dynastar Twisters for sale (preferably at a discount). The owner (Brian) personally got back to me and said that he did have one pair, a set of lightly used demos (3-5 days at most) that he'd be willing to let go of for more than 50% off (mogul disciples know that the beloved Twister was discontinued in the 2017/2018 season under the order of parent-company Rossignol). Unfortunately, he told me they were a little shorter than ideal for someone of my height and weight. Instead of trying to up-sell me onto a set of brand new Shamans or Fischers, he actually recommended that I get in touch with one of his competitors (Northern Ski Works, also in Killington) since he knew they carried the K2 244 (another mogul ski that's in the same class as the Twisters). I did; they had a new pair of last years 244s (new in the wrapper) in my length that they'd sell me at a discount. Brian told me to think it over; the Twisters were mine if I wanted them, but not to feel obligated because he had three buyers in line behind me if I decided to go with the 244s. So, I spent some time hemming and hawing about which ski to get on. During that time, Brian asked if I could send him some pictures of my boots so he could see what I was working with in that department. He knew full well that I wouldn't be buying a pair of boots over the phone, so he had no financial interest in the consultation, but gave me a lot of great bootfitting and tweaking advice anyway. On top of all that, we ended up spending, all tolled, about two hours on the phone and countless e-mails just talkin' moguls (technique, gear, form, tips, etc.).



When I'd finally decided to pull the trigger on the Twisters, he asked me what I had in the way of bindings. I had none. He said I'd want some Pivots and offered to sell me a set of perfectly good used chrome 12s for $75. I said hell yes, and he included a binding mount, mogul tune, and shipping for free.


I thought it was a done deal, but then right before Christmas I got a phone call from Brian while the skis were in transit saying to check my package carefully when it arrived because he threw a little gift in. On that glorious day when my first set of my very own skis arrived at the house, I opened the box and was a little puzzled when a t-shirt or some stickers didn't fall out. I took out the skis and looked them over; perfect bases, clean edges, minimal topsheet scratches. Then I saw the bindings, they were Look Pivot 12s, but they weren't chrome, they were black. And they weren't used, they looked brand new. Turns out, he couldn't get his hands on the used Pivots he intended to sell me in time for my ski trip in early January. So, he gave me a set of brand new Pivot 12s at no additional charge.





All this was done remotely. I never even set foot in his store, so there was no chance that he could benefit from any impulse buys while I was shopping, like a ski bag, or set of poles, or a pair of goggles. Just an essentially new set of skis sold at a used demo price, and a pair of brand new bindings for what the average person would ask for binders that are a decade old. All because I'm a Texas-based moguls enthusiast (what the fuck is wrong with me?!) who can't justify dropping $1,000+ on a bump-specific set up. Fucking incredible. Hell of a guy. Truly, in the game purely for love of the sport.


I might be a cheapskate, or maybe just have unrealistic expectations of shit I buy, but rarely do I spend over $100 and not have some degree of buyer's remorse. That absolutely wasn't the case this time. I'm utterly as pleased as spiked punch.

[huckbucket]

What the hell is a mogul tune?

[3PinGrin]

What the hell is a mogul tune?

It's no wonder you're confused. It's normally called the Texas Special.

[Vt-Freeheel]

What the hell is a mogul tune?

Only the tails are sharp? 40+ years and have never heard of it.

[Jacques Strap]

What the hell is a mogul tune?

40+ years and have never heard of it.

Yall for realz? Yall need to head to the library and crack the books. I want it noted that this clueless JONG from Texas had to learn two ol' Mags a thing or two. Proper mogul skiing (as opposed to "skiing moguls" or "getting down the moguls") demands a lot of smeared/pivoted/steered/skidded turns (where as more "all mountain" skiers tend to carve way more). With this technique, you don't need much in the way of turn hookup, and you really really don't want catchy edges. Because of this, tuning mogul skis calls for less aggressive side and edge bevels than all mountain or carving skis. Factory bump skis come with edges set at anywhere from 0.5-1 deg base and 1-2 deg side. Also, the tips and tails are heavily detuned (15-25% each).

the Texas Special.

That was a major impetus behind my decision to buy my own skis. I figured if I had a fresh tune when I got them, I could ski the entire life of the ski and never tune them, and they'd still be better tuned than nearly all of the skis in the "demo" shop and definitely all those in the rental fleets.

[DumbIdeasOnly]

Yall for realz? Yall need to head to the library and crack the books. I want it noted that this clueless JONG from Texas had to learn two ol' Mags a thing or two. Proper mogul skiing (as opposed to "skiing moguls" or "getting down the moguls") demands a lot of smeared/pivoted/steered/skidded turns (where as more "all mountain" skiers tend to carve way more). With this technique, you don't need much in the way of turn hookup, and you really really don't want catchy edges. Because of this, tuning mogul skis calls for less aggressive side and edge bevels than all mountain or carving skis. Factory bump skis come with edges set at anywhere from 0.5-1 deg base and 1-2 deg side. Also, the tips and tails are heavily detuned (15-25% each).

That was a major impetus behind my decision to buy my own skis. I figured if I had a fresh tune when I got them, I could ski the entire life of the ski and never tune them, and they'd still be better tuned than nearly all of the skis in the "demo" shop and definitely all those in the rental fleets.

What you just described is a very normal tune to many (probably most) people on this board for the majority of skis they own. The only part that’s weird is I don’t know how to think of detuning in percents, is it 15-25% of the ski on either end or the ends are 15-25% detuned or and the fuck does that even mean?

However, I doubt anyone has ever heard that called that a “mogul tune”. I am going to throw out a wild guess that if I worked at a shop in Killington I would invent the phrase “mogul tune” if I were tuning a Texan’s skis and wanted to make sure he understood why I kept the edges dull in case he felt like they sucked on ice and wanted me to sharpen them up.

Unless somebody else has ever heard that phrase before I’m about 90% sure my guess is correct, especially if you roled in there with the Texas ski uniform.

[3PinGrin]

Yall for realz? Yall need to head to the library and crack the books. I want it noted that this clueless JONG from Texas had to learn two ol' Mags a thing or two. Proper mogul skiing (as opposed to "skiing moguls" or "getting down the moguls") demands a lot of smeared/pivoted/steered/skidded turns (where as more "all mountain" skiers tend to carve way more). With this technique, you don't need much in the way of turn hookup, and you really really don't want catchy edges. Because of this, tuning mogul skis calls for less aggressive side and edge bevels than all mountain or carving skis. Factory bump skis come with edges set at anywhere from 0.5-1 deg base and 1-2 deg side. Also, the tips and tails are heavily detuned (15-25% each).

That was a major impetus behind my decision to buy my own skis. I figured if I had a fresh tune when I got them, I could ski the entire life of the ski and never tune them, and they'd still be better tuned than nearly all of the skis in the "demo" shop and definitely all those in the rental fleets.

You just described the tune on about every ski I own, lol. Ski more, hang out at the library less.

[Jong Lafitte]

It’s ‘A Mogul’s Tune’

It’s the story of a blacksmiths son becoming a mogul champion in medieval times with a rock soundtrack. Johnny Moseley plays the son; there’s a scene where he is ripping moguls to ‘living on the edge’ it’s rad. There’s another scene where the blacksmith is tuning up the skis to ‘Iron Man.’ He finishes them, runs his thumb down the edge slowly while it draws some blood, pulls off his goggles and looks at the son and he says “son you’ve got the mogul’s tune now go get em” (this is of course after the dad initially decried the idea) Spoiler: In the end he becomes champion.

There’s another part, they’re at a competition in the Alps and a German skier proposes a German Downhill race. Someone asks what the rules are and he says smugly, “zeee verst rule to zee GD is: there are many rules to GD which must be STRICTLY ADHERED TO!” He then unfurles a scroll that drops to the snow and keeps rolling.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[CaliBrit]

You just described the tune on about every ski I own, lol. Ski more, hang out at the library less.

Bullshit. My all mountain skis are set at 0.00001 base and 19 side. Fuckin razors man.

[Timberridge]

I thought this thread was going to be about the Toyota 4 Runner. At first I was disappointed, but you guys made it an enjoyable read.

[Jacques Strap]

Ski more, hang out at the library less.

Yes. And double my net worth, earn that promotion by the end of the year, and move into a bigger/nice/more baller house.

the tune on about every ski I own, lol

What you just described is a very normal tune to many (probably most) people on this board for the majority of skis they own.

Yalls skis are really tuned at 0.5 deg base and 1 deg side? No shit? I mean, maybe... fuck if I know. I've got no clue what yall Badder-Than-Badfuckinass Hellborne Huckers or End-All Be-All Fuck-All Powder Assassins​ want for your alpine HALO drops or 62 degree descents, but considering the similarities in the overall shape (minimal sidecut) and lack of carving demands of bump skis and powder skis, it wouldn't surprise me. But the general recommendations (that I've found, anyway, you wonderfully argumentative bastards) for an "all mountain" ski tune is around 0.75-1 deg base and 2-3 deg side. I never said mogul skis are tuned in a wildly different manner from all mountain skis, but just usually on the less aggressive end of things. Few bump skiers would be happy with a 1 deg base and 3 deg side tune.

is it 15-25% of the ski on either end or the ends are 15-25% detuned

My fault. I meant the former. The front 15-25% of the skis are detuned and the rear 15-25% are detuned. So, a little more of the edge is detuned than is called for with your average all-mountain ski.

Texas ski uniform.

I'm not sure what this means... what else would a person wear while skiing? Sure, there's an age difference: kids wear baseball caps, Starter jackets, and bibs until they grow up and then it's all cowboy hats, dusters, and jeans... but beyond that I can't even picture any other options.

‘A Mogul’s Tune’

I'd watch the living shit outta that movie.

[lordf]

I go out and tune all the moguls for my skis every morning...

[Cocximus]

I wonder if he has a revolutionary freeride tune. Detuning will be a game changer.

[ill-advised strategy]

[DumbIdeasOnly]

Yalls skis are really tuned at 0.5 deg base and 1 deg side? No shit? I mean, maybe... fuck if I know. I've got no clue what yall Badder-Than-Badfuckinass Hellborne Huckers or End-All Be-All Fuck-All Powder Assassins​ want for your alpine HALO drops or 62 degree descents, but considering the similarities in the overall shape (minimal sidecut) and lack of carving demands of bump skis and powder skis, it wouldn't surprise me. But the general recommendations (that I've found, anyway, you wonderfully argumentative bastards) for an "all mountain" ski tune is around 0.75-1 deg base and 2-3 deg side. I never said mogul skis are tuned in a wildly different manner from all mountain skis, but just usually on the less aggressive end of things. Few bump skiers would be happy with a 1 deg base and 3 deg side tune.

I'm not sure what this means... what else would a person wear while skiing? Sure, there's an age difference: kids wear baseball caps, Starter jackets, and bibs until they grow up and then it's all cowboy hats, dusters, and jeans... but beyond that I can't even picture any other options.

Personally? Most of my skis are at 1/1. I don't like most of them sharp either. A lot of the ski brands people here like (ON3P) ship most (all?) of their product at 1/1. If you don't care much about groomer skiing 1/3 and very sharp is unlikely to be your optimal tune as a general matter. Even if you do care about groomer skiing if you like going straight you might not want 1/3. 1/3 and even more aggressive tunes help a lot with high edge angle carves on hard snow but not much else.

Texas ski uniform: jeans and a hoodie on the slopes. I realize there is nothing "Texas" specific about that, but an awful lot of the people I have seen wearing it happen to sound like Texans. I confess I worry a bit when they ask for directions to the tram at Jackson.

[Jong Lafitte]

So, just FTR, to go gapic for a second: a .5 degree base is more "aggressive" than a 1 degree base in the sense that it takes less movement to get the edge to hookup and it is less forgiving (more likely to catch when you are trying to brush/pivot slip) So a friend told me, anyway; I can't ski moguls for crap. Look at that IAS vid where the dude says, "you're using a lot of edge if you're doing it right" - that tells me that at least some mogul skiers could prefer a more aggressive base angle so they can get the edges grabbing with less body movement, in a small space, such as between moguls. Or, so I read at the library. Sick looking set-up btw.

[ill-advised strategy]

my bump skis get beat up by junk in the troughs.

I just want edge grip underfoot and not a lot of hookup at the tip and tail. 1/3 is fine, but I'm going to soft stone them until like 20cm in front of the toes and behind the heels.
I'm sure 0.5 base would be fine too, but I'm going to detune them quite a bit fore and aft.

Aside from really bad gear, like rockered pow skis or unflexable brick wall race boots or 200cm Stockli Asteroids and shit, mogul skiing (imo) is more about the Indian than the Arrow.

[PNWbrit]

Brian asked if I could send him some pictures of my boots so he could see what I was working with in that department.

Red ones?

[Jacques Strap]

1/1

I can certainly understand that. Again, I didn't mean that tuning mogul skis requires some crazy or unique tuning procedures, but work better on one end of the range of side and base angles.

I realize there is nothing "Texas" specific about that

Hahaha, hell yeah. We are an awful people. Midwesterners tend to show up in Carhartt, and Southerners dress in their deer and duck camo. Fortunately, we all tend to rep our universities of choice on our sweatshirts and hats; thus making it easy to identify the specific species of JONG by our plumage.

just FTR

Thanks, man. I see I was using some sloppy terminology and operating with an incomplete understanding.

Sick looking set-up btw.

My rig? Thanks, dude. I love 'em. They definitely look a little strange on the chair side-by-side with some 110mm reverse camber planks in 188cm, but I think they look pretty rad and they do exactly what I want them too. And the park rats give props for the Pivots... I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

Indian than the Arrow.

Absolutely, no question. But, I can also say that in my case, without a doubt, that skiing on the Arrow that is born to fly in the moguls improved this Indian's mogul shooting in a way that all-mountain Arrows never did. A skinny, full camber ski demands actively pressuring the tips in the troughs and turn initiation, and really showed me how lazy I'd gotten cruising around on all-mountain midfats (especially in regards to fore-aft alignment).

Red ones?

How'd you know?! Well... they aren't actually all red, they've also got dayglo yellow flames and chrome buckles. Hell, I didn't even have to try them on, just bought 'em right off the store floor. Dude at the shop said they'd fit perfect and make me look like a pro. Boy, was he right!!

[toast2266]

So just to recap, a mogul tune is somewhere between a .5 and 1 degree base bevel, a 1 and 3 degree side bevel, and it may or may not be detuned some amount, somewhere along the ski. Turns out, I'm a fan of the mogul tune.

[Jacques Strap]

So just to recap

Judging by your recap, I'm not sure you read the thread.

1 and 3 degree side bevel

1-2 deg side

may or may not be detuned some amount

The front 15-25% of the skis are detuned and the rear 15-25% are detuned.

[ill-advised strategy]

Too bad I’m not running a shop anymore...

I’d offer the stoneground mogul tune and call it the








wait for it....






















Bump and Grind.