Seattle is dying

[ill-advised strategy]

these economic systems are named for what they value.

If you value social well being entirely, you end up with capital problems. If you value capital entirely, you end up with social problems. The most effective way is to mix elements of both. We've just skewed a bit too far toward valuing capital and we need to refocus on valuing social wellbeing. A takedown really isn't called for, but there's a need for adjustment....that need is observable by way of these phenomena: homelessness, addiction crises, mental illness crises, roads and bridges falling apart, failing school systems, consumer and student debt crises, frequent occurrences of mass murder....on and on.

What do we value? Most of us value both capital and social wellbeing, there is generally enough resource for both, it's a matter of carefully balancing. The Mexico/Russia Oligarchy/Corruption model we're moving towards is heavily unbalanced.

[MontuckyFried]

Hey, why doesn't Seattle just do whatever San Francisco's been doing?! Cuz that's been working!

I honestly don't know what the solution is, but I don't think ANYBODY really does since SF's been trying pretty much everything imaginable since at least the early 80's and it's worse than ever these days. They've spent untold BILLIONS over the years, and well, here we are. It's certainly not for lack of trying, I'll at least give them that.

[ill-advised strategy]

My thinking would be to analyze how and what we're doing compared to other more successful countries, then adapt their policy approaches.

[DaveTV]

Hey, why doesn't Seattle just do whatever San Francisco's been doing?! Cuz that's been working!

Apparently few have actually watched that entire documentary - see how Rhode Island deals with this. take a hint, Seattle..

Meanwhile keep doing what you're doing, it's working!

http://mynorthwest.com/1326002/dori-...abK9eK7ggh08A0

http://mynorthwest.com/1191020/singe...y-recovering/?

http://mynorthwest.com/1190255/music...tle-nightclub/

[ill-advised strategy]

This stuff is so sad, and SO FRIGHTENING for me personally. The human connection with these people is scary, because they're just like you and me. I transport indigent people, I watch them live out the last part of their lives. I see them knocking around the bus station, going to the Salvation army. I see them disappear into the hospital. I transport them from the nightmarish nursing home to the hospital. Then they're gone. They hang out along 2 spots where I bike commute and walk my dog. They know me, they're happy to see me.

It fucking crushes me not to bring them home to my house. It fucking crushes me to be so selfish, I want my little nest with no intruders. It crushes me that my powers of language and communication and humor do NOTHING to alleviate these peoples' immediate problems: their feet and teeth are killing them, they're either in withdrawal or fucked-up, they haven't had decent sleep in ages, they need a bathroom. I feel like I'm going to die and this is what God is going to play on some screen....me trying to get through my petty day and go skiing while food goes bad in my fridge and they're one volunteer short at the "warming center". Me rousting these guys from the bus station when we lock it up at night.

God help us all, man. I hope this doesn't happen to any of us. From close proximity, it's so terrifying.

One of these guys was super-institutionalized, with facial tattoos...probably in juvenile his whole childhood and prison the rest. I had a dispute where I asked him to move so we could load an elderly woman with a walker in the fold-up seats. He wouldn't move....he insisted that they were "disabled seats" and he was "disabled" so they were just as much his seats and hers. It got to the "fuck you" stage, I called the police to come take him off my bus. I'm scared, this is the kind of face-tattoo, teardrops, prison-lifer guy who will just flip out and stab a bus driver. Another war vet guy from the back of the bus came up and talked to the guy and got him off the bus and walked off with him. I see that nice guy, who protected me, around in various states of decay. He was probably a good soldier, he's always keeping that crew moving, keeping himself moving. He's gaunt now. 5'10, like 100 lbs. No expression anymore, just stoneface. His gait is unstable. I had to move him and another super nice longtime bus passenger who is also clearly in fast decline outdoors into the cold the other night. Then along my route they're stumbling through the ice, where the plowed sidewalk ends, stumbling into the road. I could have drove them there for $0.80 fare, they didn't ask for it, I didn't ask if they wanted it. They're soldiers, they're wobbling to their deaths.

The mix of terror, and guilt, and powerlessness tears me up inside....

[Bobby Stainless]

Funny thing about Tennessee, highest rate of opiod perscriptions in the country. Next highest is West Virginia. (When you beat wv at any opiod metric, you know you've got problems). They just changed the state motto from "volunteers" to "junkies". And they're far from skiing.

I guess that's why so many people are moving here and my property value is going up. Makes sense.

It's prescription btw.

[Mofro261]

I guess thats why so many people are moving here and my property value is skyrocketing.

Isnt that the exact reason Seattle is dying?

Cant have it both ways.

[ill-advised strategy]

I guess thats why so many people are moving here and my property value is skyrocketing.

Seems like, generally, it's an ongoing exodus of every rural area to every urban area.....with the exception of Rust Belt cities like Detroit and Cleveland which are functioning as de-facto rural areas (open space, lack of services) after decades of exodus.

[plugboots]

Isnt that the exact reason Seattle is dying?

Cant have it both ways.

His reply cracked me up too. It’s exactly what the thread is about - the divide between rich and poor.

[Bobby Stainless]

Never thought Seattle was "alive".

Like I said. Hasn't it always been a shit hole?

I've only been once. That was enough.

[ill-advised strategy]

Skiing is my drug. It's going to break my body and scramble my brain and ruin my marriage and make me a bum probably.

I'm going to go ski now, anyway. I almost cried just now thinking about all my bus people. I really can't bear it. I have to go there at 3 this afternoon and live in that world. It's so hard: there, but for the grace of God, go I.

[ill-advised strategy]

If you can see the tall trees and the sparkling puget sound and Mt Rainier and think "this is a shithole"....you kind of suck.

[MontuckyFried]

His reply cracked me up too. It’s exactly what the thread is about - the divide between rich and poor.

There's DEFINITELY a massive and growing divide between the rich and the poor there, but then again, shouldn't that deter the poor from going there to begin with? Or is it their tolerance (and spending) of the homeless that attract them there.

Was eye opening when I saw a homeless man in SF interviewed. He said he went to SF just a couple years ago to seek a better life, but that it ended up being so expensive he had no choice to be on the streets. While you can't help but feel bad for the guy, I also had to wonder about the motives. Seems to me that if I am poor and seeking a better life, the LAST thing I would want to do is go to the #1 most expensive place in the entire freaking country to go. Same goes for Seattle. What attracts the homeless there to begin with? Seems pretty common knowledge these days that it's a damn expensive place to exist. Why go there?! Many of the homeless in SF and Seattle are NOT locals; they are recent arrivals. It seems intentional. Not all of course, but enough to raise some questions.

[Bobby Stainless]

If you can see the tall trees and the sparkling puget sound and Mt Rainier and think "this is a shithole"....you kind of suck.

Yeah. Tons of homeless people shitting everywhere and all fucked up on drugs kicks ass. And the Space Needle!

You can see the ocean in Miami. Still a shit hole.

Don't get butt hurt.

[Mofro261]

Never thought Seattle was "alive".

Like I said. Hasn't it always been a shit hole?

I've only been once. That was enough.

We dont have dry counties here, but have legal weed and skiing that doesnt require a plane ride.

You guys have???? Twang and Oxy? Yeah sign me up.

[yeahman]

KOMO did not depict the WHOLE problem. KOMO depicted the drug problem to make you wet your pants.

No you're wrong. The show did not focus on the drug problem in any graphic or shocking way. Only as a natural extension of the mental illness issue.

[glademaster]

We dont have dry counties here, but have legal weed and skiing that doesnt require a plane ride.

You guys have???? Twang and Oxy? Yeah sign me up.

Gotta count BBQ and fried chicken in Tennessee's favor, but that still isn't quite () enough to put them over the top.

[Buster Highmen]

If you can see the tall trees and the sparkling puget sound and Mt Rainier and think "this is a shithole"....you kind of suck.

If you had been here in the late 70s and 80's, you'd understand.

It's still a beautiful place, but competition for resources has changed it.

Peace, love and eternal kosmik powder turns.

[Bobby Stainless]

We dont have dry counties here, but have legal weed and skiing that doesnt require a plane ride.

You guys have???? Twang and Oxy? Yeah sign me up.

Are we talking about all of TN or just Nashville? The thread is about Seattle... Not all of Washington.

Davidson county isn't dry, legal weed is garbage, and the live music scene here is amazing.

You don't know much about Nashville do you? Don't get me started on the food.

[ill-advised strategy]

If you had been here in the late 70s and 80's, you'd understand.

It's still a beautiful place, but competition for resources has changed it.

Peace, love and eternal kosmik powder turns.

yeah, I get that

[dunfree]

There's DEFINITELY a massive and growing divide between the rich and the poor there, but then again, shouldn't that deter the poor from going there to begin with?

rich area = lots of food, service (think tanning salons) & labor jobs. those are whats available to the poor in the US. lots of people living the "van life" in a shitty RV parked on a sidestreet now because they can't afford housing, but the rich city is where the jobs are.

[dunfree]

fuck you are a needy little attention whore BS.

[Mofro261]

Are we talking about all of TN or just Nashville? The thread is about Seattle... Not all of Washington.

Davidson county isn't dry, legal weed is garbage, and the live music scene here is amazing.

You don't know much about Nashville do you? Don't get me started on the food.

My new good friend Mr. Mike assures me Nashville is a very nice place but also facing many of the same issues that have plagued Seattle during rapid population growth.

[Buster Highmen]

Seattle is just another example of a bigger issue regarding the rift between the rich and poor and the weird blame our reformationist culture puts on the mentally ill.

It's not simple but America is out of balance on the dynamic between materialism and social welfare. Seattle is just a symptom. It is amazing to go through Europe and find minimal instances of the poor, where people have some respect and dignity about working and being part of a culture.

[dunfree]

When we decided institutionalizing them was inhumane, we essentially just moved the problem outside onto the streets.

They were inhumane. They were also expensive and being used less. There's plenty of ways to deal with mental health care without involuntary institutionalization. Lots of them cheaper. There were efforts to fund community mental health services by the Federal government signed under Carter; Reagan repealed those leaving it up to the states. And the states have generally observed a beggar thy neighbor pattern of behavior with homeless and the mentally ill. Some regions explicitly buying the bums a bus ticket or a plane ticket so it's someone elses problem. Without some federal influence of some sort the incentives are always for this pattern of behavior on the part of the states.