Ski tune

[sethschmautz]

Hey all,

I recently picked up a pair of DPS Cassiar 95s and am really loving them on piste and through moderate chop. Edge hold is better than anything I've skied to date and I find myself skiing them much faster than I typically would. However, when I jump off piste into crud, refrozen mank, etc., I start to fall apart. My other ski is an RPC which I feel just busts through or over this stuff easily, but the Cassiar gets deflected fairly easily. It's a light ski (~1700g), so this isn't all that surprising.

One thing I was curious about, however, was the tune or possibly the mount point. I find that if my weight gets back at all, the tails are locked and the skis go jetting forward and I'm holding on for dear life. :-) No question, I've realize that the RPCs don't punish as much when my weight gets back and I've been focusing on keeping a forward or more balanced stance, but I'm wondering if detuning tails a little more would help them release a little easier when I get knocked backward.

I have detuned the tips and tails and they don't feel catchy or grabby on groomers, so I'm hesitant to knock off more material.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Seth

[stuckathuntermtn]

Detune with gummy stone. Don't have to worry about overdoing it. Also, maybe it's a stiff, fat tail? I had that problem with my Q Labs till I learned to ski better.

[Core Shot]

Backseat rocket ship

Operator error. Get forward

Detuning tails won’t help

Get forward

[EWG]

Yup. Jamb shins into front of boots. Someone had the exactly question this weekend (different skis), and that's what I had him work on.

Unless I have my skis wrong (and I admit I'm not a DPS expert) the Cassiars have stiffer tails than the RPC. RPC has softer backs and more rocker. So when you get in the backseat on the RPC it's forgiving and releases, but the Cassiar is holding.

I would assume that if they were mounted too far forward you could have the same problem, but it's more likely that you've gotten away with a style on your old skis that the new ones can't forgive as well.

But it's also a function of the lighter ski needed to be skied more solidly in crud, rather than letting the ski do the work.

So, yeah, slam your shins into the boots and get on top of stuff.

[sethschmautz]

Thanks all. I figured that bad habits were at least part of the issue. I have found myself getting too far over the tips also, so I'm guessing that these just require more attention than what I'm used to.

Any good balance or other technique exercises to check out? I'll have lots of skiing groomers with my kids in the upcoming years so lots of time to practice.

Seth

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[Conundrum]

Balance board from the balls of your feet while binging Netflix. Ski groomers while spreading your toes up in your boots. You’ll feel getting back fast and push forward. Knowing that “getting back” feeling and having the muscle memory to correct it before you mentally have to correct it is the goal.

[sethschmautz]

Balance board from the balls of your feet while binging Netflix. Ski groomers while spreading your toes up in your boots. You’ll feel getting back fast and push forward. Knowing that “getting back” feeling and having the muscle memory to correct it before you mentally have to correct it is the goal.

Great suggestions, thanks!

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[RShea]

Thanks all. I figured that bad habits were at least part of the issue. I have found myself getting too far over the tips also, so I'm guessing that these just require more attention than what I'm used to.

Any good balance or other technique exercises to check out? I'll have lots of skiing groomers with my kids in the upcoming years so lots of time to practice.

Seth

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For balance, some swear by slack lining... or the balance balls or balance boards if you do not think the slack lining is for you...

[rod9301]

Backseat rocket ship

Operator error. Get forward

Detuning tails won’t help

Get forward

Yep

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[rod9301]

To get out of the back seat, pulling your feet back, equivalent to moving hips forward, but a lot faster and easier.
Do this in the transition between turns and you will be golden.

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[Jacques Strap]

pulling your feet back

This is great advice I don't hear very often. I've found it keeps my torso upright (rather than bending at the low back, which can happen if I focus too hard on shin pressure). It's my go-to fix for when I get kicked into the backseat in the moguls. That, and the cure-all of getting my hands back out in front.

[Lord Thomas]

Also, what is the turn radius of the ski? Personally, I don't at all like short turn radius skis in chop and inconsistent conditions regardless of tune. A ski that likes to grab and pull across the hill on groomers tends to do the same, but inconsistently, in chop. For skiing off piste I will take 20+m radius every time.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Gotta get low. Gotta get forward. Skis with soft, straight tails can let you get away with some really bad habits.
Going from a Moment Ruby 188 twin to the Q lab was almost like relearning how to ski.

[Conundrum]

Gotta get low. Gotta get forward. Skis with soft, straight tails can let you get away with some really bad habits.
Going from a Moment Ruby 188 twin to the Q lab was almost like relearning how to ski.

He might be in the back seat and your pearl of wisdom is for him to get forward. Classic.

[sethschmautz]

Thanks all. I have some good exercises to work on while cruising the groomers with the kids. I appreciate all of the suggestions. I may try to pick up a balance board. I am partial to Netflix, after all. :-)

Hand flexing the tails of the RPCs, Cassiars and MTN explore 95s, I would put them in that order (above) from stiffest to softest. The latter two are much flatter than the RPCs.

The cassiars have a radius of 21m.

Seth

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[old goat]

This is great advice I don't hear very often. I've found it keeps my torso upright (rather than bending at the low back, which can happen if I focus too hard on shin pressure). It's my go-to fix for when I get kicked into the backseat in the moguls. That, and the cure-all of getting my hands back out in front.

I saw the pulling the feet back in an article Darren Rahlves wrote in the local paper, also got it as a tip in a lesson I took, re moguls but it works on other terrain. Pushng knees forward. Feeling pressure on the balls of the feet. All different ways to accomplish the same thing--keeping the tips of the skis down in the snow rather than bouncing up. Pressuring the skis in the turn rather than going along for the ride also helps, and keeping them on edge. The best crud ski in the world won't perform well if you don't make it work.

[stuckathuntermtn]

He might be in the back seat and your pearl of wisdom is for him to get forward. Classic.

Ok.....


Fwiw, with 29" wheels and sub-17" chainstays, getting "long and low" ot "centered" over the BB with your hips back and heels down pretty much puts your butt over the rear wheel. Especially if your bike is more than 5 years old and doesn't have an 18" reach.

[sethschmautz]

A few years ago I had a set of Dynafit "shift" plates built that would allow me to move my toes forward or backward +/- 1 or 2 cms. For fun, i moved the toes forward 1 cm and skied them today. I started with my boots at -0.5cm, so this put me at about +0.5.

Pure carving *seems* to have decreased slightly (although no back to back testing at -.5cm), but performance in crud and chop seems to be significantly improved. In addition, as my weight moves fore and aft through my turns I didn't have a single experience of feeling like I was in the back seat and rocketing forward as mentioned in the initial post.

I am still consciously thinking about being forward, but the ski seems much more balanced 1cm forward from where I was. I'm looking forward to spending a little more time on them and this mount point and seeking out some really crappy snow to ski. :-)

I haven't played much with mount points in the past. Is this consistent with what others have seen when moving their mount point forward or rear or am I potentially putting a band aid on a bad habit. It seems like +0.5cm is probably minor, but curious to hear from others.

Seth

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[Dee Hubbs]

Go to Vermont and ask for the Mogul Tune. Tell em CS2-6 sent you.

[stuckathuntermtn]

That's interesting, as it almost sounded like there was a lot of/too much tail, but I buy the "balance" point thing. (Rocker, taper, side cut, camber, weight, etc)