Adjusting boot stiffness - making 130 flex boot softer

[TheK12]

Trying to decide between 120 and 130 boots. Current boot is a Lange XC 120 (basically an SX 120 with a walk mode) that has pretty much given up the ghost. Found the boot to be the perfect flex for me in soft snow conditions but just too soft when the skiing gets firm and fast. Can get a great deal on a Rossignol Allspeed 130 boot (similar last to Lange SX) or a Lange SX 120. Thinking about jumping up to 130 but worried that might be too stiff, especially in really cold temperates.

Question - Looks like I can adjust the stiffness of the Rossignol Allspeed boot by removing rivets but does that really work?

[oftpiste]

yes.

[Eluder]

What he said.

[mattig]

Yep, I just added a 3rd rivet to my allspeed 120s and it definitely took them up a peg.

Also, I think the Rossi elites are more like the RX Lange. SX has super wide toe box, no?

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[apex dave]

Only remove one bolt as removing both will eliminate the boot's rebound. The professional way to soften a boot is to carefully cut the saddles of the clog until you get the flex you want. Unfortunately it will still be just a hard to get off and on. BTW a boot with walk/hike mode will not have as solid a connection as a traditional boot so that should help.

[TheK12]

thanks for feedback all. seems like the Rossignol Allspeed 120 would be a better fit as they would be stiffer than my current hike mode Lange's with the option to stiffen them up with an added rivet.

one more question. my boot size for the longest time has been 27/27.5 - i measure exactly 27 and 27.5 on my right and left foot respectively and I have a high instep with a width measurement of approximately 110mm. i shell fitted the Rossignol Allspeed 130s and I seem to have at least an inch or more of spacing between heel and shell. i shell fitted my current boots -Lange XC 27.5- and the spacing result is the same - approximately an inch or more. weird thing is the Lange XC's have been perfect for me - comfortable but also snug in the all the right places, instep and heel and good wrap around my shins. i think part of this is that my custom footbed is relatively thick and so probably takes up alot of space. anyway question - should I stay with the 27.5 size in the Allspeeds or size down to 26.5? shell fit wise, i'm getting approximately half an inch of spacing but instep is much more snug and toes feel a little cramped.

[mattig]

I'll let the bootier guys answer your sizing question. I'd probably try to make a 26.5 work with a ton of bootwork, but I don't have experience with instep constraints.

And holy hell, 110mm width? We must be measuring that differently. Caliper or trace says I'm 101mm and I wear a 4E sneaker in most brands. Keep in mind that the Elite is 2mm narrower than the Pro.

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[TheK12]

I'll let the bootier guys answer your sizing question. I'd probably try to make a 26.5 work with a ton of bootwork, but I don't have experience with instep constraints.

And holy hell, 110mm width? We must be measuring that differently. Caliper or trace says I'm 101mm and I wear a 4E sneaker in most brands. Keep in mind that the Elite is 2mm narrower than the Pro.

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yep, 110mm. they didn't measure with calipers but with whatever the boot sizer thingy is (can't remember the name).

yep, aware that the Elite is the narrower last but the regular Allspeed, which is the boot I'm interested in, is 102mm last. it's basically the Rossignol version of the Lange SX with what looks like a better liner.

shell sized my old 275 Lange XC boot again last night and this time used something similar to a dowel and the shell spacing came about to be about 3/4" of an inch. Every boot fitter I've been to has put me in a 27 shell and I think it's for the extra width and instep spacing - I have a high instep as well.

aren't ski boots fun...

[mattig]

Ah, got it. You said allspeed and I was thinking allspeed pro.



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[Gaperious Basterd]

thanks for feedback all. seems like the Rossignol Allspeed 120 would be a better fit as they would be stiffer than my current hike mode Lange's with the option to stiffen them up with an added rivet.

one more question. my boot size for the longest time has been 27/27.5 - i measure exactly 27 and 27.5 on my right and left foot respectively and I have a high instep with a width measurement of approximately 110mm. i shell fitted the Rossignol Allspeed 130s and I seem to have at least an inch or more of spacing between heel and shell. i shell fitted my current boots -Lange XC 27.5- and the spacing result is the same - approximately an inch or more. weird thing is the Lange XC's have been perfect for me - comfortable but also snug in the all the right places, instep and heel and good wrap around my shins. i think part of this is that my custom footbed is relatively thick and so probably takes up alot of space. anyway question - should I stay with the 27.5 size in the Allspeeds or size down to 26.5? shell fit wise, i'm getting approximately half an inch of spacing but instep is much more snug and toes feel a little cramped.

Hello. I would like to apprise you of several things I hope will help.

1. These boots have a high instep, as you may know.

2. Your cramping toes and perceived instep troubles are coming from your liner (which is terribly-constructed and ultra-snug on the top of the foot), not the shell.

3. My foot is the same length and width as your's. I have owned the Lange SX 120 in a 26.5. If you downsize to a 26.5, I would prepare yourself for ample shell work to get the forefoot wide enough to accommodate your 110 mm forefoot.

If you have never skied in a 26.5 shell and are not used to the various issues you might have to deal with, just know it is going to take some patience.

I don't have a crystal ball, but I can almost guarantee you the 26.5 (regardless of how higher-performing it might theoretically be if properly worked on) will present you with numerous fitting difficulties and pain. Additionally, you will need new footbeds and/or need to have a bootfitter cut the ones you have to fit in a 26.5 liner.

Good luck.

[Bushwacka]

no such thing as too stiff boot, if the boot is to stiff your fore and aft alignment is off.

[TheK12]

this is all great feedback!

@Gaperious - good points about the 26.5 and echoes some of my thoughts on going a shell size smaller.

@buschwacka - point taken. it's just that i've skied in 120 boots for so long, the initial feel of the 130 is "stiff".

[XavierD]

no such thing as too stiff boot, if the boot is to stiff your fore and aft alignment is off.

Bull fucking shit. This might be the dumbest Bootfitting advice given on the internet; ever.

[mattig]

C'mon man, being forced into the backseat because you can't flex your ankles is core. I mean race coaches must just preach ankle flexion to throw curve balls.

Wtf is fore aft alignment?

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[lucknau]

C'mon man, being forced into the backseat because you can't flex your ankles is core. I mean race coaches must just preach ankle flexion to throw curve balls.

Wtf is fore aft alignment?

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Maybe he means "ramp"?

[XavierD]

He is talking about getting a skier balanced in the Sagital plane. Forward lean and ramp angle. It’s pretty fucking easy thing to do. However you still need to be able to flex your boots or you’re gonna end up skiing in the backseat.

[mattig]

Ok, so "ideal front seat leg/foot geometry?"

I was confused because maintaining that while skiing without being able to flex one's ankles is impossible within the constraints of human anatomy.

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[XavierD]

Yeah, you need to be able to flex your boots.

[Bushwacka]

I can flex my boots at all.

I run KR2 that are basically joined in the rear(I rivted the top and bottom together.) and some 170 scorpions.

I need to lift the heel though because the stock alignment is impossible for me to ski at that flex.

If the for and aft alignment are correct you ll be in balance, with out the ankle flexxing much at all, I think all the flex I get is the liner compressing. Basically if you lower legs comes out of the boot where you need it already, flex is not wanted or needed, in a sense I ski with my ankle just already flexxed.

[Gaperious Basterd]

I can flex my boots at all.

I run KR2 that are basically joined in the rear(I rivted the top and bottom together.) and some 170 scorpions.

I need to lift the heel though because the stock alignment is impossible for me to ski at that flex.

If the for and aft alignment are correct you ll be in balance, with out the ankle flexxing much at all, I think all the flex I get is the liner compressing. Basically if you lower legs comes out of the boot where you need it already, flex is not wanted or needed, in a sense I ski with my ankle just already flexxed.

Do you have third person footage of you skiing as an example (only if you’re comfortable posting/full mask and goggles to remain anonymous, etc).

I’m just curious what skiing with zero flex looks like.


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[Gaperious Basterd]

Talk of “hips” is largely a thing created by pedophilic race coaches so they had a legitimate reason to be looking at the asses of boys and girls in skin-tight Lycra race suits.

We don’t ski with straight legs and lean our hips forward like we are inflatable boxing dummies strapped to the floor.


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[SB]

[charles martel]

Talk of “hips” is largely a thing created by pedophilic race coaches so they had a legitimate reason to be looking at the asses of boys and girls in skin-tight Lycra race suits.

We don’t ski with straight legs and lean our hips forward like we are inflatable boxing dummies strapped to the floor.


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Better to talk of the entire kinetic chain, saggital, frontal and planar, and their dynamic alignment. Much can be learned through a gait analysis. I know most race coaches know all this.

[Jacques Strap]

Good video.

[Bushwacka]

Do you have third person footage of you skiing as an example (only if you’re comfortable posting/full mask and goggles to remain anonymous, etc).

I’m just curious what skiing with zero flex looks like.


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well its no secert who I am ....







I do agree with you hips will almost never be forward of your feet because rounding the spine will bring your weight more forward and I am more in to precision skiing than "ripping" . I ski about 130+ days a year and I am PSIA education staff member IE I coach other instructors how to ski. I think the in the dust on crust video you can see why I like boots that wont flex. The clips on upper National at Stowe with ice bump underneath meant that I could just do short swing turns and drive the tips in the front side of the bumps and not get tossed around to bad, and also the clips of carving though chunder I dont get tossed around.