The TechTalk Landscape, and New Feature Requests

[Gaperious Basterd]

I had a discussion on a similar topic about a month ago. Was with a guy in the tech industry with some specific knowledge on the shoe industry. Executive summary is we're not there yet. Apparently attempts have been made to use 3d scan of feet and either construct footwear around the virtual shape or suggest existing shoes that were close in shape...can't recall. I didn't get details such as 'weighted' or 'unweighted', 'free hanging' or 'flexed' or 'dorsiflexed', etc... The result was even though the shape was 'correct', issues arose when weighted and 'walked in' due to material flex characteristics in response to foot morphology/shape micro and macro changes during real world walking and use in terms of crucial fit areas not being perfect...either the very fine liner foam or the actual outer material was a little loose here, a little tight there, flex too stiff here, too soft there, etc....thereby negating the benefit of having a fundamentally 'correct' shoe shape for the foot...sounds like as in a lotta stuff in life, the devil's in the details.

Having said that, tech is evolving fast, who knows, maybe it's just around the corner for shoes. Perhaps, for ski boots; might actually be a bit more realistic where even a 'roughly more precise' shell shape, for example, would pay huge dividends for fit since ski boot liners can accommodate those slight imperfections more effectively?

With A.I. perhaps the solution is go beyond a simple static 3D scan of the feet. Have a dynamic, video scan transferred into virtual 0's and 1's of feet in action...walking, hiking skiing, etc...with not just the scan of the static foot but a virtual dynamic capture of how the foot morphology changes in response to different demands, strides, rotational angles in sidehill situations, etc... and, pressure distribution sensors to see where the step/stride pressure gets distributed during the stride... No clue what that would entail and what you'd be scanning. Barefeet walking? Some kinda of 'reference shoe'? with footbeds/insoles? without? Same thing for ski boots... ski touring stride? downhill stance and dynamic action? what ramp angle? with or without footbeds? etc.... so many questions....

Having said all that...wasn't there a new shop that was offering something that's based in Revelstoke? Can't remember now. I think it was a 'scan the foot and compare to an archive/database of existing shell shapes to recommend best, next best, fitting models', etc.. simply to assist sales folks in making their job a bit easier?

Awesome info man. The one thing I wondered about for the 3D foot scan is that it would be better to also have a complete 3D scan of your foot in your footbed of choice on the floor. The one company that will actually mail you a boot custom-punched to your 3D feet... well, I'm sure those people are smart and dedicated to good fit. But their blueprints certainly do not account for a footbed, and those millimeters can change everything.

It would seem to me a ski boot would be much easier (you're dealing with rigid plastic that only gives so much) compared to shoes with flexible foams and fabrics (that must flex to be useable, as opposed to a ski boot where the function is fundamentally to keep the foot and leg braced in place).

While I do see complete built-for-you 100% custom boots somewhere on the horizon, I don't understand why at least a virtual overlay of a static foot with internal boot shells is not being done--like--now. If the shop in Revelstoke is doing it, they should enterprise and go international. They should make a website and charge people $19.99 for a virtual shell fit.

All they need is to integrate the software, get a web developer/domain, develop/get rights to one of the smartphone apps, and they can start making big money. Like now. Revelstoke shop, if you're reading this, please do it.

[swissiphic]

All they need is to integrate the software, get a web developer/domain, develop/get rights to one of the smartphone apps, and they can start making big money. Like now. Revelstoke shop, if you're reading this, please do it.

Did some googling, Gaperious Basterd; here's what popped up. Edit; just remembered that mntlion posted about this a while back.

https://revelstokemountaineer.com/ne...th-tech-angle/

[Gaperious Basterd]

Did some googling, Gaperious Basterd; here's what popped up. Edit; just remembered that mntlion posted about this a while back.

https://revelstokemountaineer.com/ne...th-tech-angle/

Thank you for link.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with marketing to shops; just that they don’t also market direct to consumer).

Part of the point is to take the hassles of dealing with bootfitters out of the equation, and reach a wider customer base.

They have a great idea and futuristic technology they are marketing to an ancient entity (the brick and mortar store).

More people will pay for the service and generate more revenues than they can get in revenue from shops or shops can get in additional operating income for themselves.

Direct to consumer is crucial in 2019.


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[Gaperious Basterd]

I'm just waiting for more integration between smartphone scans and boot shells.

Remember when Netflix was a dinky little company that mailed you DVD rentals? Remember when Amazon was a book store for readers? To both we thought: Hmmm, why wait for the mail when I can go to my local Blockbuster? Why buy a book on the silly internet when I can go to Borders books!? Blockbuster and Borders books don't exist today. Amazon is the biggest company in the world. Why? It's easy, it's reliable, it's convenient; you can order something on your smartphone while relaxing at home, and it is on your door two days later. Much better than going into a store which might not have something in stock, and dealing with commissioned salespeople, etc. It's just better.

One or more companies will emerge to enhance the fit of ski boots on any individual's foot. At present, people have a myopic approach, rigid thinking, and resistance from the community in a skilled trade that only exists because ski boot fit is terrible. Some company (small or big) is going to need to man up and be a little iconoclastic, and just be patient, but really separate themselves from many subtleties and nuances of the ski boot industry and ski boot resale industry.

The thing is, the company is going to have to do things the right way, and get customers. Selling things to brick and mortar ski shops is no way to get customers. In fact, it may be a way to lose them, because the opportunity cost (or real cost) for waiting and having to travel to a handful of shops that have their system is going to be excessive, and you're just gonna pursue another path to a boot fit.


The state of ski boots is just so bad. Even the truly heat-moldable shells require padding the foot during molding, and literally about 50 things can go wrong with custom footbeds and punching boots, regardless of the expertise of the bootfitter. On top of all that, shops have a bottom line and limited hours they are open which puts time constraints on the employee and customer, and the bootfitter doesn't have a sensory nervous system to know how and where something hurts, and therfore why.

Take the example of molding your foot on the rubbery bladders of a weighted-footbed machine. The bootfitter gives you commands, does this and that, but forgets to do some tiny thing, or gets carried away with pulling on the bladder or buffing it around you heels that now the heel cup is not contoured to the bottom of your heel. Worse, if that footbed is not placed in the EXACT correct place on the impression, that footbed is trash. For this

[PNWbrit]

^ he's got feet on the brain.

[MultiVerse]

Regarding reviews, I think Skialper does it best for touring skis because they compare skis at the same time while also describing ski performance in various types of snow and conditions, then rate them relative to one another. I also assume, but I don't actually know for sure, that the snow in Northern Italy is worse than it is North America so the results carry more weight. In contrast, some of the North American magazines tests skis at places like Powder Mountain so it's not clear how their results translate to backcountry skiing with all the variety of 3D snow that entails.


Also, I'd like to see a marketplace for gear odds and ends. Sort of like a wish list for things a person would like to buy, but can't. Currently, places like skimo.co have a lot miscellaneous parts and accessories but they don't have two items I wish existed: 1) A skyhook for backpacks and 2) A skin tip fix for skis with a notch that isn't a bungee or a rubber dongle.

[Vitamin I]

I...Having said all that...wasn't there a new shop that was offering something that's based in Revelstoke? Can't remember now. I think it was a 'scan the foot and compare to an archive/database of existing shell shapes to recommend best, next best, fitting models', etc.. simply to assist sales folks in making their job a bit easier?

Great ideas for boot stuff, guys! I will take more time to digest it, but for now...

Yeah, the company you're thinking of is Pulse Boot Lab & Ski Co. in Revelstoke.
https://pulsefitsystem.com
https://revelstokemountaineer.com/ne...th-tech-angle/
https://www.pulsefitassistant.com/
https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/n...boot-lab-ep-35

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[Vitamin I]

Are you TGR's web developer, or do you want to start your own website?

If it is the latter, you may not get many helpful replies, because people don't generally like to share their intellectual property with people for free.

But if you are TGR's web developer, then explicitly represet yourself as such, and people may be more willing to offer some constructive advice since it will affect their experience here.

I am NOT TGR's web developer.

My assumption is this TGR forum is a 3rd-party software package that cannot be modified much by any TGR web developer. My assumption is this community of users can ask the "mods" to create or delete a sub-forum, sticky or unsticky a thread, and delete a thread...and that's about it. And the community can ask each other to adhere to preferred practices.

As a consumer of gear decision-support content/features, I want new features to be delivered for my own usage, and this limited forum is incapable of delivering them, so I guess I need to start 2 new custom full-stack websites myself (see my previous posts).

I am not asking people to "share their intellectual property for free". Every post here, at TGR forums, of people's knowledge and ideas has been for free. If consumers of gear decision-support content/features here want a new feature to be delivered by somebody, anybody, anywhere...then I am offering to try to make it happen for them. I am not here to buy your intellectual property and start a business. Skiing is a hobby. But if my websites somehow make money someday, then so be it.

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[Gaperious Basterd]

I am NOT TGR's web developer.

My assumption is this TGR forum is a 3rd-party software package that cannot be modified much by any TGR web developer. My assumption is this community of users can ask the "mods" to create or delete a sub-forum, sticky or unsticky a thread, and delete a thread...and that's about it. And the community can ask each other to adhere to preferred practices.

As a consumer of gear decision-support content/features, I want new features to be delivered for my own usage, and this limited forum is incapable of delivering them, so I guess I need to start 2 new custom full-stack websites myself (see my previous posts).

I am not asking people to "share their intellectual property for free". Every post here, at TGR forums, of people's knowledge and ideas has been for free. If consumers of gear decision-support content/features here want a new feature to be delivered by somebody, anybody, anywhere...then I am offering to try to make it happen for them. I am not here to buy your intellectual property and start a business. Skiing is a hobby. But if my websites somehow make money someday, then so be it.

.

Unless you are independently wealthy, your website will be an enterprise in some way shape or form.

Wanna make it good? Make a service which catalogues 3D scans of internal ski boot dimensions and fits it to smartphone-generated 3D images of feet.

That is what the ski industry is in dire need of.

Maybe what you envision for your site and the needs of skiing consumers are not one and the same.

But if you are in need of ideas for web/app development and integration, that’s more of a tech/coding/graphical marketing thing that have consultant firms a dime a dozen.

You owe it to yourself to pursue your project with more input than just from a feeler at TGR forums. There is a tradition here of anhydrous sarcasm and sabotage.

You do know that people have gotten seriously injured after asking a gear question here and listening to a response from a sociopath who responded with the incorrect information, just so the poster could gain some “gnar points” amongst the average user here who is pissed-on, old, and single.

Many people here grow thick neck beards and tour because it gives them purpose and satisfaction; they get further and further away from other human beings to feel better and better, then come home to their computer to quench the vestiges of need they have for communal bonding and interaction that even they need and crave, but which cannot be found neither on the ski slope with humans, in the backcountry with wild hooded animals, nor in the vacuous abyss of their own character.

How sad that “red boots” is still a thing. It’s like cave paintings of half man/half jackal creatures with a 90 degree turned neck. Paint the cave. Be a beast. Light the campfire. Chant a chant. Be an asshole, but act like a dumbshit at the same time. And come to TGR, where you have a place too.

I would actually distance yourself from association with TGR Tech Talk, because skiing is fun, and being here is an exercise in self-deprecation, shame, and electronically getting fucked in the ass when you bend over to pick up your bar of soap in the Teton County Jail.


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[swissiphic]

Unless you are independently wealthy, your website will be an enterprise in some way shape or form.

Wanna make it good? Make a service which catalogues 3D scans of internal ski boot dimensions and fits it to smartphone-generated 3D images of feet.

That is what the ski industry is in dire need of.

Maybe what you envision for your site and the needs of skiing consumers are not one and the same.

But if you are in need of ideas for web/app development and integration, that’s more of a tech/coding/graphical marketing thing that have consultant firms a dime a dozen.

You owe it to yourself to pursue your project with more input than just from a feeler at TGR forums. There is a tradition here of anhydrous sarcasm and sabotage.

You do know that people have gotten seriously injured after asking a gear question here and listening to a response from a sociopath who responded with the incorrect information, just so the poster could gain some “gnar points” amongst the average user here who is pissed-on, old, and single.

Many people here grow thick neck beards and tour because it gives them purpose and satisfaction; they get further and further away from other human beings to feel better and better, then come home to their computer to quench the vestiges of need they have for communal bonding and interaction that even they need and crave, but which cannot be found neither on the ski slope with humans, in the backcountry with wild hooded animals, nor in the vacuous abyss of their own character.

How sad that “red boots” is still a thing. It’s like cave paintings of half man/half jackal creatures with a 90 degree turned neck. Paint the cave. Be a beast. Light the campfire. Chant a chant. Be an asshole, but act like a dumbshit at the same time. And come to TGR, where you have a place too.

I would actually distance yourself from association with TGR Tech Talk, because skiing is fun, and being here is an exercise in self-deprecation, shame, and electronically getting fucked in the ass when you bend over to pick up your bar of soap in the Teton County Jail.


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Damn, tight...that pretty much sums it up. Brilliant insight and summary of the T.G.R. chat forum reality....but at least kinda less so here in a bit of a 'safer zone' in Tech Talk. I don't have the thick skin, quick wit and general sophisskication to survive in padded room, or other sub forums.

[Vitamin I]

I'd like a service that takes a 3D generated model of your feet (based on a smartphone app) and searches an entire database of ski boot internal shell 3D images and generates a list with "%fit," and also lets you select a boot and then the AI tells you where and how much to punch the boot.

With today's technology that should be simple. If you have cash investment, you can purchase two of every model of ski boot (or you can just order all of them online, take your measurements, and return them). Have a section of your website with AI bootfitting.

Even if you can't go quite that far, still consider cataloging user 3D feet with their other objective stats/data to correlate with their boot, what specific work needed to be done on it, and how the fit is (as well as boots "out of the box" which didn't work, and why).

Also there should be a section of the site dedicated to footbeds. You should allow users to post pictures of their feet on flat ground and on their footbed to give people an idea of the level of support (or lack thereof) afforded by various aftermarket pre-fabricated and custom footbeds.

You might also consider consulting with/contracting a company to develop analytical instruments to objectively quantify behavior of skis and boots (flex, torsional rigidity, boot flex, etc), at room temperature and at various temperatures.

If you generate enough data, you can develop partnerships with custom ski and boot companies (Praxis, Wagner, Strolz, Dodge, etc) to send data to them to build you a perfect custom ski that is the correct length/width/stiffness/sidecut/etc.

I had a discussion on a related topic about a month ago. Was with a guy in the tech industry with some specific knowledge on the shoe industry. Executive summary is we're not there yet. Apparently attempts have been made to use 3d scan of feet and either construct footwear around the virtual shape or suggest existing shoes that were close in shape...can't recall. I didn't get details such as 'weighted' or 'unweighted', 'free hanging' or 'flexed' or 'dorsiflexed', etc... The result was even though the shape was 'correct', issues arose when weighted and 'walked in' due to material flex characteristics in response to foot morphology/shape micro and macro changes during real world walking and use in terms of crucial fit areas not being perfect...either the very fine liner foam or the actual outer material was a little loose here, a little tight there, flex too stiff here, too soft there, etc....thereby negating the benefit of having a fundamentally 'correct' shoe shape for the foot...sounds like as in a lotta stuff in life, the devil's in the details.

Having said that, tech is evolving fast, who knows, maybe it's just around the corner for shoes. Perhaps, for the 3D scan based custom ski boots; might actually be a bit more realistic where even a 'roughly more precise' shell shape, for example, would pay huge dividends for fit since ski boot liners can accommodate those slight imperfections more effectively? (where's the DPS boot?)

In the context of shoes; with advanced computer and A.I. tech, perhaps the solution is go beyond a simple static 3D scan of the feet. Have a dynamic, video scan transferred into virtual 0's and 1's of feet in action...walking, hiking skiing, etc...with not just the scan of the static foot but a virtual dynamic capture of how the foot morphology changes in response to different demands, strides, rotational angles in sidehill situations, etc... and, pressure distribution sensors to see where the step/stride pressure gets distributed during the stride... No clue what that would entail and what you'd be scanning. Barefeet walking? Some kinda of 'reference shoe'? with footbeds/insoles? without? Same thing for ski boots... ski touring stride? downhill stance and dynamic action? what ramp angle? with or without footbeds? etc.... so many questions....

Having said all that...wasn't there a new shop that was offering something that's based in Revelstoke? Can't remember now. I think it was a 'scan the foot and compare to an archive/database of existing shell shapes to recommend best, next best, fitting models', etc.. simply to assist sales folks in making their job a bit easier?

Awesome info man. The one thing I wondered about for the 3D foot scan is that it would be better to also have a complete 3D scan of your foot in your footbed of choice on the floor. The one company that will actually mail you a boot custom-punched to your 3D feet... well, I'm sure those people are smart and dedicated to good fit. But their blueprints certainly do not account for a footbed, and those millimeters can change everything.

It would seem to me a ski boot would be much easier (you're dealing with rigid plastic that only gives so much) compared to shoes with flexible foams and fabrics (that must flex to be useable, as opposed to a ski boot where the function is fundamentally to keep the foot and leg braced in place).

While I do see complete built-for-you 100% custom boots somewhere on the horizon, I don't understand why at least a virtual overlay of a static foot with internal boot shells is not being done--like--now. If the shop in Revelstoke is doing it, they should enterprise and go international. They should make a website and charge people $19.99 for a virtual shell fit.

All they need is to integrate the software, get a web developer/domain, develop/get rights to one of the smartphone apps, and they can start making big money. Like now. Revelstoke shop, if you're reading this, please do it.

Gaperious Basterd, it seems you haven't read this thread. All I am offering is either:
1) I deliver the requested feature in my NERDwebsite, or
2) I deliver the requested feature in my LeftoverFeaturesWebsite (a collection of unrelated one-off features), or
3) I help this community to lobby an existing player to deliver the requested feature.

I am clueless about bootfitting, but I know how to read/research.

At first glance, your boot idea sounds like something we should lobby Pulse Labs to deliver. But I'm not sure yet, so let's design the feature more completely, and then I will know if it's appropriate for me to build any parts of it.

First, please clarify for me your vision of what the outputs are to the user, and what the user can do with those outputs. Is the output merely the %fit metric for multiple boots, and then the user merely chooses one of those boots, and then buys it from any seller out there? If user needs punching after that, does user use the output to help him DIY punch his own boots at home? Or user uses the output to command his local ski shop precisely how to punch the boot? Or what?

Anyway, my comments:
- IMO, AI is unnecessary and frivolous for this feature.
- Pulse Labs claims they tested "a couple of" the scanning solutions out there, but none met their standards, so they put together a different scanning solution (not a smartphone app). 16-20 foot measurements to 0.01mm precision. They also say scanner operator error significantly affects the measurements (so I guess they solved that with a stationary automated scanner?). If Pulse Labs is being honest here, this implies the free smartphone scanning apps available out there aren't sufficient to achieve outcomes that meet their standards.
- Pulse Labs claims they don't measure the boots. My understanding is they just accept manufacturer stated specs for the lasts, and then lump boots into a limited number of categories, and then match feet to a boot category. But they also say that, for the subset of boot models that they carry in their shop, if they observe discrepancies (presumably between the manufacturer's stated last and fitting outcomes expressed by the customer), then it sounds like they overrule the manufacturer's stated data and permanently "correct" that boot's last numbers in the backend of the app. I think NOT based on spatial measurements---instead based on customer outcomes.
- I have no idea how much distance is best between foot surface and shell at every point of the foot surface, for race fit, for high performance fit, performance fit, comfort fit, warmth fit, etc. Is that known and agreed upon across the boot fitting industry?
- Yes, I can build a feature for users to input their foot data & fit outcomes (your idea of catalog of 3D scans of feet, outcomes after choosing a boot model, etc.), just to start accumulating data to drive future R&D. We'll see if anyone here votes for this feature. How many people will actually bother to scan their feet just for science?
- Yes, I can build your footbed feature...we'll see if anyone votes for that feature.
- RE: analytical instruments to measure ski flex, torsional rigidity, boot flex, etc. Pulse Labs says they are working on objective boot flex measurements. Pulse Labs claims: "From our own testing, we’ve found equal flex ratings [from different brands & models] can vary [in actual measured stiffness] by as much as 40 per cent.” I have my own ideas to simplify comparison of "ski flex" measurements of two skis. Yes, I can build a way for users to input their measurements, but very few super-nerd users actually measure stuff, so we rely on the few to measure for the many.

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[PNWbrit]

FFS

[Vitamin I]

You do know that people have gotten seriously injured after asking a gear question here and listening to a response from a sociopath who responded with the incorrect information, just so the poster could gain some “gnar points” amongst the average user here who is pissed-on, old, and single.

No, I did not know that. Please tell me the details of those cases, or links, or some keywords for me to search to find those cases.

Even while living in my car, I still go out of my way to remount for complete strangers who are oblivious that they somehow ended up with dangerous gear like this (notice the screw holes and screws):

[iriponsnow]

Relative to feet & scans- I developed a process to cast/mold/create spare rubber feet.... yeah really & the problem was that while I wanted to sell em to mags/racers & the like who would ship em to a bootfitter, it became really apparent that the foot compressed a ton to even get in the boot & a rendering would not fit in a shell some times - without the liners.

Plus as GregL pointed out somewhere, tight to a rock climber / dancer & tight to a average Joe are worlds apart.

[swissiphic]

Relative to feet & scans- I developed a process to cast/mold/create spare rubber feet.... .

Would that process work for hands? If so, can we p.m.? Working on a custom glove project...brainstorming phase, atm.

[Vitamin I]

Relative to feet & scans- I developed a process to cast/mold/create spare rubber feet.... yeah really & the problem was that while I wanted to sell em to mags/racers & the like who would ship em to a bootfitter, it became really apparent that the foot compressed a ton to even get in the boot & a rendering would not fit in a shell some times - without the liners.

Plus as GregL pointed out somewhere, tight to a rock climber / dancer & tight to a average Joe are worlds apart.

Your cast/mold attempt is rad.
Gaperious Basterd wants it to be virtual, so no physical barriers like you experienced (but suspicious accuracy for DIY foot scanning, plus R&D required, which might eventually conclude that the "never put your foot in the boot" method cannot succeed).

RE: degrees of "tightness of fit":
It sounds like Pulse Labs lumps customers into 5 bins: race fit, high performance fit, performance fit, comfort fit, & warmth fit.
I don't know if their target distance between "uncompressed" foot surface and shell (at every point of the foot surface) is defined precisely by one surface per bin, or by a looser range between 2 surfaces per bin, or definitions way less precise than that, or what.

-

Anyway, for my LeftoverFeaturesWebsite:
I thought of my own feature request, and it's not even GearTalk/TechTalk-related:

- Resort-specific decision-support:
A simple scraper/aggregator that displays select content from multiple 3rd-party servers as one convenient “unofficial” page, etc.
I’d build this for myself for Squaw/Alpine, and maybe Mammoth, and maybe whatever resorts you request. And if Squaw has more pain points (traffic? lift waits?), then I might add features to help me dodge those pains, too.
See simple examples like:
https://www.whistlerpeak.com
http://www.whistleralpine.com
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ck-in-Business

And more complicated examples like:
https://www.facebook.com/whistlerbro/

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[nickwm21]

Back to ski review sites....

I’ve envisioned a ski review database site working like yelp or MTBR.

A database filled with all the various skis and their stated specifications.

Users add reviews. The Review form has a 1-5 snowflake scale for performance categories (pow, groomers, bumps, stability at speed, maneuverability in tight spots, etc...). The form also has fields where you can add the mount point skied, height, weight, measured ski dimensions and weight, etc... and a comment box for those that like to write diatribes about their experience...

Then have a robust sort and filtering system, so someone can search for specific criteria; ie: 185-189, 110 waste ski, with over a 3.5 snowflake rating on groomers, sorted by snowflake rating in pow...


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[sruffian]

Average skier gets between 3 and 4 days on the mountain a year. Sounds like the average yelp reviewer, too..."s7 9/10 on groomers and off-piste chop, never been on a ski so responsive" is the equivalent of the 1 star review because "food comes on weird plates, totally unacceptable, terrible decor, food was amazing"

I think the self-selecting nature of tgr reviews is the reason we're all here

But if you wanna make $$$ and get eyeballs go for the middle of the bell curve

edited cus i submitted accidentally

[Gaperious Basterd]

Vitamin I, thanks for info.

As for “who benefits?” question, that’s why the service would have to be a paid for thing if a small ski industry company put it out.

What I envision would really require actual 3D boot models (as you describe it as it is presently, that just won’t work)

As for endpoints, one is for a skier (regardless of boot needs or ability) to visualize how much their foot is beyond the plastic of a ski boot. I believe both consumers and manufacturers seeing this will positively impact boot design.

Right now it’s a “he said, she said” train of hearsay. 3D models could kind of uncover “the truth,” whatever that is. This can create consumer awareness and economic emergencies for ski boot manufacturers. That’s the only way they will go back to the drawing board and improve the equipment.

...

Ski boots are simply not shaped like human feet, and this actually creates trouble for everyone.

One thing doesn’t exist: a person with an E brannock width in their mondo size cannot purchase and use a single ski boot off the shelf that has plastic wide enough for their forefoot.

Another thing doesn’t exist: contouring of the tongue to match the top of any human foot. Or a footbed even wide enough for a C width. Or a bootboard. Or a toe box shaped like any human foot’s toes (even roughly).

Or a riveting concept: a third and fourth buckle that actually change the width of the boots instead of just clamping downward.


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[Vitamin I]

...
What I envision would really require actual 3D boot models (as you describe it as it is presently, that just won’t work)

As for endpoints, one is for a skier (regardless of boot needs or ability) to visualize how much their foot is beyond the plastic of a ski boot. I believe both consumers and manufacturers seeing this will positively impact boot design.

Right now it’s a “he said, she said” train of hearsay. 3D models could kind of uncover “the truth,” whatever that is. This can create consumer awareness and economic emergencies for ski boot manufacturers.

I agree that could possibly end up being better than the current state of things, and I applaud the great ideas & brainstorming, but too many reasons make it seem not worth implementing. As I mentioned before: Suspect accuracy for DIY foot scanning, and significant R&D required to see if it can achieve desirable outcomes at all without the foot ever going into the boot.

Plus another reason I didn't mention yet: How many skiers out there actually have troubles with the current state of boot fitting? I don't see maggots here saying, "Yeah, I need that, too." Seems to me that the current state of things can work around all the problems just fine---just put in the time and iterations until your boot is dialed in, right? Personally, I solved my boot situation long ago, and am now set for life with boots---will never need any boot fitting ever. I guess I have lucky feet, and hate the "new" technologies of powerless cheapo lightweight plastic boots like a McDonalds happy meal toy.

Still, I can keep this feature alive and see if people vote for it.

That’s the only way they will go back to the drawing board and improve the equipment.

I strongly disagree. Surely there are other ways that somebody will approach it someday. We'll see what DPS comes up with, etc.

[swissiphic]

You know...the more I think about it, the less I personally believe we really even need a classic, plastic ski boot in its standard present form at all.

I got a bit of inspiration a few years back from the david mcphail project...the 'birdcage'. I think i'd move that forefoot vertical pressure pad axis of tension forward to focus more on the ball of foot area.

FWIW: Based on his reports of world cup racers testing the unit out, it was expressed that they felt it was the best skiing boot they've ever skied.

I've already purchased a bunch of automotive fiberglass for other projects and kinda thinking this may be the summer to work on a paradigm shifting experiment using that material as a basic start. Carte blanche...see where it goes.

[gregL]

One thing doesn’t exist: a person with an E brannock width in their mondo size cannot purchase and use a single ski boot off the shelf that has plastic wide enough for their forefoot.

My right foot measures out to an "E" in my mondo size, and the Rossignol Track boots and Tecnica Mach Sport HV/EHV boots feel like boats on my foot; could wear them straight out of the box for a day, though I might not be able to actually ski.

Or a riveting concept: a third and fourth buckle that actually change the width of the boots instead of just clamping downward.

Dalbello Panterra