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  1. #51
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    does anybody here know the straight pull length of Katana v werks in 177? VŲlkls are usually >or=stated length, but the 184s are 182.2 according to Blister, hence the question.

    thanks for any and all input in advance!

  2. #52
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    I measured them as 179 straight pull.

  3. #53
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    How long are your 177 BMT 90s btw? How did you get on with them last year?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangerjake View Post
    Well that above ski does exist (1600g/115mm/185cm): BD Helio 116. I think I'd trade my new BMT 122s for new BD Helio 116s
    Voile Hyper series also.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    i dunno man. At some point things can get too light as well, especially for a ski this wide. Sure, if you only ski untracked, perfect snow a super light wide ski would be a lot fun. Yet in more variable snow they will just get deflected a lot. That being said, I am lucky that I usually can do lift assisted touring for the deep days, so BMT122s are light enough for me in the 176 version. Mine are mounted with Tectons, so as light as possible is not the game that I am trying to play here

    Funnily enough I can't quite seem to shake the urge to try BMT122s in 186, but the time for me to buy a pair is not now - my ski buying budget for this and next year is well and truly spent, and then some
    If you can find them... PM Gear Kusalas in pure carbon are a sick ski also and pretty similar I think.

  6. #56
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    Touring for turns ski for the alps. Mantra V-Works or BMT90?

    Iíve skied a ton of different skis in a ton of different conditions. We moved to Europe over the summer. I could bring just about any ski from my testing and reviewing days that I wanted. For this class of ski in typical Alp conditions I clicked the best with the Faction Prime 2.0. It weighs about 1600g in a 183 and 98mm underfoot. Rocker, camber, rocker. Metal underfoot, carbon, fiberglass, balsa, flax construction. Super composed and damp for the weight. Confidence inspiring edgehold with a slick rocker profile that slarves nicely. You should definitely at least try it out.

    For what its worth, I also brought a pair of 190cm Down Showdown 115M mounted with Shifts (heavy) for all around offpiste freeriding and a pair of older DPS Lotus 120 Pures (1800g) with Vipecs for deep days and longer tours. I also love the old metal Katanas, but felt the 115M was a better fit for what I was looking for. My Kusalas didnít quite make the cut, as I wanted something a bit lighter (Lotus 120s), and didnít need its cliff-stomping prowess with the 115M in the quiver.

    Quote Originally Posted by gritter View Post
    Nice. I can get a pretty good deal on Bmt90 here in the UK, and I'm kind of tempted to go for them but I'd decided that 100-105 underfoot would be more versatile for winter conditions. I'm also considering something more radical like the raven. I quite liked the countdown 102, but they were just too long and stiff for me to flex at the kind of speeds that I'm happy with when touring. Actually a CD 104L in a 174/5 (iirc down measure post pressing) would be great, but I don't think that they get enough call for that sort of size (please Geo? ó happy to help with prototype testing! Could you use the lowdown 90 tools for the profile?)
    Consider the Faction Prime 2.0. I also clicked with the CD102.
    Last edited by Lindahl; 10-20-2019 at 08:54 PM.

  7. #57
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    Thanks for the reccomendation Lindahl. I actaully took a punt on a pair of line sickday 104s which I saw for a steal over the summer - They are more 50/50 weight than touring weight, but I'm hoping that they will ski a mix of terrain comfortably and perhaps be more easygoing in character than some of my other skis. If I move them on I'll take a look at the Factions.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    I’ve skied a ton of different skis in a ton of different conditions. We moved to Europe over the summer. I could bring just about any ski from my testing and reviewing days that I wanted. For this class of ski in typical Alp conditions I clicked the best with the Faction Prime 2.0. It weighs about 1600g in a 183 and 98mm underfoot. Rocker, camber, rocker. Metal underfoot, carbon, fiberglass, balsa, flax construction. Super composed and damp for the weight. Confidence inspiring edgehold with a slick rocker profile that slarves nicely. You should definitely at least try it out.
    Interesting. This is making me rethink the race to 1,000g skis. Could consider the binding/ski aggregate and make up the extra grams by choosing a lighter binding. Hello MTN or ATK.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gritter View Post
    I measured them as 179 straight pull.
    Sweet - thanks! Katana v werks at 179cm sounds nice. It does strike me a bit odd though that the 184s supposedly are coming in at 182 and that the 177s end up at 179, but that is how it goes I guess. Welcome news regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by gritter View Post
    How long are your 177 BMT 90s btw? How did you get on with them last year?
    My BMT90s are a few mm shorter than my BMT122s, so 176.3-5cm vs 176.8cm for the 122s. The vw mantras measure in at approx 179cm.

    I never got around to trying the BMT90s last season - or the vw mantras for that matter - to be honest.

    I am currently overthinkning the shit out of my touring skis needs. As such I am complating some changes. The original plan for the 2020 season was to have bmt90s, Ravens and BMT122s, and sell the VW Mantras. Then I stupidly bought a pair of Hoji w/tectons - aka deviated from my preferred three ski formula, inducing some angst on my part (too many choices = not good).

    To get back on track I am contemplating selling the BMT90/Vipecs, together with the Tectons off the Mantras as well as the Raven/Tectons and Hoji/Tectons, and run Mantras, Katanas and BMT122s as the three ski quiver. I would then run all of them with MTN tech binders. That would take me back to three skis, free up some funds and prevent overlap. It would also refine that part of the quiver to their sole roles as touring specific skis. In other words, it would reduce angst, make things easier - even if it means selling skis that I love (Ravens) and think that I will love (Hojis). It would also mean forgoing the added elasticity, power and safety of Vipecs/Tectons to save grams and make the skis more touring specific with the MTN binders. However, I think the skis are damp enough and powerful enough to make up for the MTNs though, making longer days out more enjoyable.

    Dunno - we'll see where I end up.

    Thanks for your replies though!

  10. #60
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    Touring for turns ski for the alps. Mantra V-Works or BMT90?

    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Interesting. This is making me rethink the race to 1,000g skis. Could consider the binding/ski aggregate and make up the extra grams by choosing a lighter binding. Hello MTN or ATK.
    Yeah, I have the 110g ATKs on my Prime 2.0s. I also have the 20g plate so I can ski them both with my Backlands and Hawx. I also added a 16g home-made high riser. Itís removable so weíll see if I need it out here. I would have gone with the hideous red and yellow 90g ATKs if I didnít get a good deal on the 110g ATKs.

    Iím not a fan of chasing lower ski weights than around 1500-1600g if they will see firm snow. You just start to give up too much performance and canít ski very fast unless the snow is perfect. That number used to be 1800g for me, but construction has improved.

    For mid-winter fast pow laps, Iím ok with chasing lower ski weight. If the snow is good, the difference isnít that dramatic. But the width has to be decent too. So, La Sportiva Vapor Nano, Alp Tracks 100, Voile Hyper V6, etc. Iíd like to try one of those and compare with a Voile Hyper V8, but havenít had the opportunity yet.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Yeah, I have the 110g ATKs on my Prime 2.0s. I also have the 20g plate so I can ski them both with my Backlands and Hawx. I also added a 16g home-made high riser. Itís removable so weíll see if I need it out here. I would have gone with the hideous red and yellow 90g ATKs if I didnít get a good deal on the 110g ATKs.

    Iím not a fan of chasing lower ski weights than around 1500-1600g if they will see firm snow. You just start to give up too much performance and canít ski very fast unless the snow is perfect. That number used to be 1800g for me, but construction has improved.

    For mid-winter fast pow laps, Iím ok with chasing lower ski weight. If the snow is good, the difference isnít that dramatic. But the width has to be decent too. So, La Sportiva Vapor Nano, Alp Tracks 100, Voile Hyper V6, etc. Iíd like to try one of those and compare with a Voile Hyper V8, but havenít had the opportunity yet.
    Yeah, i skied the Salomon mtn explore on Shasta this spring and they were all over the place on firm snow.
    Decided to sell them. Now I'm on my vwerks Katanas with mtn as my sole setup.

    Sent from my Armor_3 using Tapatalk

  12. #62
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    , sorry Kid - I miss read your post - that 179 measurement was for the vwerks mantra, not katana. Apologies for the confusion.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Sweet - thanks! Katana v werks at 179cm sounds nice. It does strike me a bit odd though that the 184s supposedly are coming in at 182 and that the 177s end up at 179, but that is how it goes I guess. Welcome news regardless.
    It's the same for the Mantra v4 (zero camber), the 184 is like 182, the 177 around 178.

    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    To get back on track I am contemplating selling the BMT90/Vipecs, together with the Tectons off the Mantras as well as the Raven/Tectons and Hoji/Tectons, and run Mantras, Katanas and BMT122s as the three ski quiver. I would then run all of them with MTN tech binders. That would take me back to three skis, free up some funds and prevent overlap. It would also refine that part of the quiver to their sole roles as touring specific skis. In other words, it would reduce angst, make things easier - even if it means selling skis that I love (Ravens) and think that I will love (Hojis). It would also mean forgoing the added elasticity, power and safety of Vipecs/Tectons to save grams and make the skis more touring specific with the MTN binders. However, I think the skis are damp enough and powerful enough to make up for the MTNs though, making longer days out more enjoyable.
    I'm going to do something a bit similar except for the superwide touring gear :
    Sell the BMT 94 / Ion because the Ions are too heavy and do not offer anything more than an ATK R12 2020
    Sell the BMT 109 / Raider 12 2.0. cause they're not versatile enough on hard snow and I don't like the front stoppers on the Raider 12 2.0.
    Buy a Mantra VW and mount some ATK R12 2020 (stoppers at the back).
    Remove the Shift on my Katana VW and replace with STH2 16.
    Mount my spare Katana VW with some ATK R12 2020.

    Overthinking you said ?? :-D :-D

    Also I'm trying hard NOT to buy a Corvus 2019 at the moment because if I like it enough it will complicate things even more

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Yeah, I have the 110g ATKs on my Prime 2.0s. I also have the 20g plate so I can ski them both with my Backlands and Hawx. I also added a 16g home-made high riser. It’s removable so we’ll see if I need it out here. I would have gone with the hideous red and yellow 90g ATKs if I didn’t get a good deal on the 110g ATKs.

    I’m not a fan of chasing lower ski weights than around 1500-1600g if they will see firm snow. You just start to give up too much performance and can’t ski very fast unless the snow is perfect. That number used to be 1800g for me, but construction has improved.
    Ok, seems like you are firmly in the ultra-light binding with real-ish 1600g skis. I think this is the direction I'm leaning, but I hadn't thought of going that light with the bindings. To be clear, you're running these on the Prime 2.0s? Going back to the drawing board. To be honest, I haven't loved anything lighter than the Blizzard Zero G 95, and even that wasn't a quiver of one.
    Dumb question: you think the Prime 2.0 will ski hard pack, chop and "mixed" better than something like a BMT 94 or the Zero G 95?

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    does anybody here know the straight pull length of Katana v werks in 177? VŲlkls are usually >or=stated length, but the 184s are 182.2 according to Blister, hence the question.

    thanks for any and all input in advance!
    I measure 176.7cm.

    170 MVW measures 169.2cm and 1,600g even.

  16. #66
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    How do you feel about the fixed heel bindings versus heels with "elasticity"?

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuntmanbo View Post
    It's the same for the Mantra v4 (zero camber), the 184 is like 182, the 177 around 178.


    I'm going to do something a bit similar except for the superwide touring gear :
    Sell the BMT 94 / Ion because the Ions are too heavy and do not offer anything more than an ATK R12 2020
    Sell the BMT 109 / Raider 12 2.0. cause they're not versatile enough on hard snow and I don't like the front stoppers on the Raider 12 2.0.
    Buy a Mantra VW and mount some ATK R12 2020 (stoppers at the back).
    Remove the Shift on my Katana VW and replace with STH2 16.
    Mount my spare Katana VW with some ATK R12 2020.

    Overthinking you said ?? :-D :-D

    Also I'm trying hard NOT to buy a Corvus 2019 at the moment because if I like it enough it will complicate things even more
    Damn, VWKatana w shift sounds like a dream to me... I have the VW Katana w Raiders and love them, but not in the resort. Would love an additional one with shifts for resort-based touring. If you put STH and not walking why not just find a real metal katana?

  18. #68
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    I realized that usually, I'm either doing lift accessed touring all the day, and for this for me the Shift is too heavy and no real added value vs the R12 (I'm light and rarely pre-release), either I'm only doing stuff with only bootpacking or no walking required and for that no need for the Shifts. I have a spare pair of Katana VW sitting in my closet, so ...

    With one pair with the R12 and one pair with the STH, I'll use my Vulcans on the R12 pair and my alpine Full Tilts on the STH pair, without the hassle of having to setup the Shift each time I want to switch.

    I though the Shift would be ideal to use with both my alpine and tournig boots, but it's such a PITA to fine tune the height of the AFD plate each time that I think I'll be better with 2 pairs.

    Why not a metal Katana, well, you're right, but I'm afraid I would not like the metal one that much, too heavy, too much swing weight ? I had a Cochise 2015 (185 with 2mm camber), and thought it was too much work. So I don't know about the metal Katana, the best would be to try it in a 184, not sure if they would be easier than the Cochise at equivalent sizes. This guy said that the metal Katana is much more work than the Cochise, that's why I'm thinking the metal Katana is not for me ... Also maybe I should try the Confession but I've read 2 different reviews of guys who preferred the Katana VW vs the Confession, even at the resort.

    Volkl should do a Katana VW with a bit of titanal like on the Mantra VW, that'd be great

    Btw which size of stoppers do you use for the Raider with the Katana VW ?

  19. #69
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    My main concern with my current mantra+katana v werks plan is the widths of the skis at the shovels/tails. That is - will added widths at the ends of the skis make them feel hooky or take a ton of effort to turn in dense, coastal fresh/pow or variable? Raven/Hojis excel at providing a nearly frictionless ease in that kind of snow, as does my go to ON3Ps. For drier inland snow the dimensions of tze VŲlks should work perfectly. Also, both the Mantras and Katanas should be stiff enough in the shovels to thrive in denser snow as well and not be overpowered (bent way out of shape = sudden 90 degrees turns) by driving of the tips in deep, dense snow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    If you can find them... PM Gear Kusalas in pure carbon are a sick ski also and pretty similar I think.
    Thanks for the suggestion, but no - I am not going down the PM/Splat route.
    Last edited by kid-kapow; 10-22-2019 at 12:08 PM.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    My main concern with my current mantra+katana v werks plan is the widths of the skis at the shovels/tails. That is - will added widths at the ends of the skis make them feel hooky or take a ton of effort to turn in dense, coastal fresh/pow or variable? Raven/Hojis excel at providing a nearly frictionless ease in that kind of snow, as does my go to ON3Ps. For drier inland snow the dimensions of tze VŲlks should work perfectly. Also, both the Mantras and Katanas should be stiff enough in the shovels to thrive in denser snow as well and not be overpowered (bent way out of shape = sudden 90 degrees turns) by driving of the tips in deep, dense snow.



    Thanks for the suggestion, but no - I am not going down that route, ever.
    Look at the wider BMTs
    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  21. #71
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    @stuntmanbo I dont think (solely from reading) that the confession is an improvement over the katana. Sounds like a way more cumbersome, locked in the turn kinda ski. I personally really like the OG cochise and Bodacious, but they are indeed heavier than the VW katana. But sooo good

    I have 120 mm ATK stoppers on my katanas. Maybe the 108 wouldve worked, maybe not. Couldnt find a definite answer so i went with the bigger ones.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    Look at the wider BMTs
    Getting a new pair of BMT109s remain an option as well. I was just pondering if going Katana would add a lot of capability at a small cost in weight, and that Katanas mounted +2 would still be playful and easy enough to ski to be a blast while touring.

    I dunno - time will tell what I end up doing. Guess I should have bought a pair of last years BMT109s during the off season when they were at 50% off for a ski+skin package deal I prefer the old graphics to this years as well - not that it really matters that much.

  23. #73
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    The Katanas 184 are better on hard snow than the BMT 109 176 even though theyíre wider. Theyíre more stable and better carvers. Float is also better but not by much, the BMT 109 floats really well for itís size and width. They weight more obviously.

    If youíre in EU and want the BMT 109 2017 in 176 mounted with some Raider 12 2.0., if/when I decide to sell mine I can let you know.

    @Smooth, I got the 108mm stoppers on the BMT 109, it fits tightly without bending, I think that for 112mm a little bending would be required. Not sure if it would have been a good idea to bend those front stoppers. With this years version with the stoppers on the back it should be more bend-able.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Ok, seems like you are firmly in the ultra-light binding with real-ish 1600g skis. I think this is the direction I'm leaning, but I hadn't thought of going that light with the bindings. To be clear, you're running these on the Prime 2.0s? Going back to the drawing board. To be honest, I haven't loved anything lighter than the Blizzard Zero G 95, and even that wasn't a quiver of one.
    Dumb question: you think the Prime 2.0 will ski hard pack, chop and "mixed" better than something like a BMT 94 or the Zero G 95?
    An earlier version of those bindings, but yeah. Not a big difference except a fixed non-removable crampon mount.

    The Prime was quite a bit better than the ZeroG, yes. I havenít skied the BMT, but it doesnít have any camber, so Iíd wager yes.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    An earlier version of those bindings, but yeah. Not a big difference except a fixed non-removable crampon mount.

    The Prime was quite a bit better than the ZeroG, yes. I haven’t skied the BMT, but it doesn’t have any camber, so I’d wager yes.
    What else would you put in the Prime 2.0's category that is worth looking at?

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