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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
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    444
    Quote Originally Posted by boardtodeath View Post
    I never use the bar and it generally pisses me off when people slam it down without saying anything, because I grew up skiing in the midwest and legit didn't know what a "Safety bar" was til I was in my 20s.
    Agree on the slamming down problem, but the phenomena of not using the bar when it's there confuses me. I do this too - perfectly good bar, often with footrests, and my instinct is to not use it. Why the hell wouldn't we use it? Are we trying to be tough?

    What is wrong with us?

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Colorado
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    2,181
    Quote Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum View Post
    I don't suppose you can quantify "significantly" in a public setting, by any chance?

    I'm really curious because I can think of a few relatively modern chairs that have fittings for bars but don't actually have them. I get that retrofitting an older chair that doesn't even have fittings could be cost-prohibitive, especially if the manufacturer doesn't exist and you need to get someone to fab custom bars, but for relatively recent lifts (I'm thinking of a 1996 Garaventa CTEC detachable in particular) the only downsides I can come up with are cost and weight, and I would think you could just pull an appropriate number of carriers off the line if the added weight from the bars was an issue. From a financial standpoint, not installing bars for a "significant" decrease in an annual cost seems silly, unless the cost for bar installation is substantially more significant. Then again, I'm not really a dentist, and I didn't stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night.

    I'm trying to see if I can find any more concrete examples of relatively recent lifts (particularly detachables) without bars, but aside from looking through tons of photos, I'm not sure quite how to pull that off.

    Also, recent but anecdotal: https://nltimes.nl/2019/02/22/dutch-...rench-ski-lift
    What the fuck? How could you not notice that a childís head was stuck between the bar and armrest?

    Just brought that fucking bar right down immediately without asking and looking around and then and yakking on?




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  3. #103
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    PRB
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    19,989
    Quote Originally Posted by Jong Lafitte View Post
    I’ve still yet to see a source confirm that she didn’t load properly. The petition implies that because the petition says people were screaming at them to stop the lift. Was she still at the LZ when they were screaming? That lift is super slow.

    Maybe I missed it. Not trying to blame her or anyone, I’m just wondering what really happened.

    Also vibes to the little girl.. heal up and get back to skiing
    I have not seen any formal report, but the eyewitness reports I read all said that she never fully loaded, and they were yelling at the liftie to stop the lift because she was going higher and higher while not fully loaded, but the lift wasn't stopped until after she fell. She was reportedly ~30' high when she fell.

    As I noted before, the accident that spurred this petition appears to be a liftie-related one, and a safety bar sure wouldn't have helped her, and it's not clear that an adult would have either, especially if that adult was a beginner (but maybe, hard to know, and very hard to know when only going by reports and not having seen the accident).

    This petition is essentially the result of the posts that not bunion and I have above, the parents realized that the resort's portrait of it being a safe disneyland was not true. I think the responsibility for that realization lies both with the parents and the resort. The parents have a responsibility to educate themselves about the sport in general and the lessons being offered at this resort in particular, but the resort has a responsibility to be transparent as well. Not to mention a responsibility to take all reasonable safety measures. Which brings us back to the question of what are reasonable safety measures.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
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  4. #104
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    985
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    What the fuck?

    Just brought that fucking bar right down immediately without asking and looking around and then and yakking on?
    Welcome to Europe. SOP is to slam the bar down before skis leave the snow. Especially difficult to get used to for us taller N. Americans.

    It struck me as very odd how over-the-top conscious everyone was about safety bars, and how much money resorts put into automatic and expensive safety bars... but then don't bother signing a 50m cliff, thats located 20m off a groomer, or have any patrol visible anywhere. weird contradiction IMO.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by beece View Post
    Agree on the slamming down problem, but the phenomena of not using the bar when it's there confuses me. I do this too - perfectly good bar, often with footrests, and my instinct is to not use it. Why the hell wouldn't we use it? Are we trying to be tough?

    What is wrong with us?
    It's annoying and I've personally seen it cause injuries and almost knock people off the chair? I mostly snowboard but regardless of what sort of equipment I have on, 99% of the time I will be more comfortable without the bar down. I'm also 6 foot 4.

    I mean I don't think I've ever seen a patroller in LCC use a bar either, so clearly its a pretty common thing to ignore. At the end of the day, I am simply more comfortable with it up most of the time.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SF & the Ho
    Posts
    4,960
    Squaw removed the footrests, but kept the bars on headwall chair last season. I like using the bar regardless, but removing the footrest pissed off me off taking away my leg rest mode

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Paradise
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    3,686
    I like safety bars and foot rests. It's definitely more dangerous without them.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Warm parts of the St. Vrain
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    1,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    I have not seen any formal report, but the eyewitness reports I read all said that she never fully loaded, and they were yelling at the liftie to stop the lift because she was going higher and higher while not fully loaded, but the lift wasn't stopped until after she fell. She was reportedly ~30' high when she fell.

    As I noted before, the accident that spurred this petition appears to be a liftie-related one, and a safety bar sure wouldn't have helped her, and it's not clear that an adult would have either, especially if that adult was a beginner (but maybe, hard to know, and very hard to know when only going by reports and not having seen the accident).

    This petition is essentially the result of the posts that not bunion and I have above, the parents realized that the resort's portrait of it being a safe disneyland was not true. I think the responsibility for that realization lies both with the parents and the resort. The parents have a responsibility to educate themselves about the sport in general and the lessons being offered at this resort in particular, but the resort has a responsibility to be transparent as well. Not to mention a responsibility to take all reasonable safety measures. Which brings us back to the question of what are reasonable safety measures.
    I take that back, actually, the Camera article def says "Investigators said a preliminary investigation indicates the fall was accidental and that the 6-year-old was never fully seated in the lift before falling." I'm just bad at the google and trying to figure where the info (outside of the petition) that she was 'never fully seated in the lift before falling' had come from.

    http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-c...irl-falls-lift

    That lift moves sooo slow. How in the fuck do they not notice someone who's not loaded? Shit.

    Feel bad for the little girl.
    If we're gonna wear uniforms, we should all wear somethin' different!

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    50 miles E of Paradise
    Posts
    7,928
    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    Iíve seen it happen twice in my 15 years of skiing. Both on chairs w/o a bar. Both times on hard pack. One died. Kind of a shitty thing to watch happen.

    Hope that fills your need for antidotal data.

    But why does it matter to you? And why are you so anti progress. Safety bars do not gaurentee not falling out, but they do make a difference. Stop being such and obtuse old fuck.
    Not anti-progress. Just anti-stupid responses that wonít make a difference.

    Iíve seen the immediate aftermath of three dismounts > 10í in just three years. At just one resort. All teenagers or adults.

    I Just donít see how requiring a random adult ride along with every unaccompanied six YO (per the petition) Is gonna make any fucking difference. Sounds to me like better lift op training would be more effective, no? That guy at vail several years ago who took a ride upside down without his pants is a great example

    I looked at all the incidents Beece listed upthread. Eight was the youngest victim. Most were teenagers or adults - whoís gonna be the designated grownup for these clowns?

    Look at that viral Whistler incident. The kid is with three adults. That didnít seem to work out so well.

    Then thereís the kid with their head stuck between the bar and armrest- while it prevented her from falling out, the adults didnít exactly provide a safe environment.

    So show me how all the ďantidotalĒ evidence in this thread is even relevant to the parentís petition, cause Iím sure not seeing it.

    And while you are doing that, take a moment to go fuck yourself.
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  10. #110
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    cottonwood heights
    Posts
    995
    Kids or Adults> it clearly states in our lift ticket agreement

    :must have prior knowledge to load and ride lifts ,or ask operator for help loading and unloading:

    they didn't think they needed to say "stay in the seat too"!
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    10,860
    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    It struck me as very odd how over-the-top conscious everyone was about safety bars, and how much money resorts put into automatic and expensive safety bars... but then don't bother signing a 50m cliff, thats located 20m off a groomer, or have any patrol visible anywhere. weird contradiction IMO.
    I mean I don't think I've ever seen a patroller in LCC use a bar either, so clearly its a pretty common thing to ignore. At the end of the day, I am simply more comfortable with it up most of the time.
    Same here but if someone really wants it down I am OK with that

    Squaw removed the footrests, but kept the bars on headwall chair last season. I like using the bar regardless, but removing the footrest pissed off me off taking away my leg rest mode
    Yeah, pretty stupid.

    I like safety bars and foot rests. It's definitely more dangerous without them.
    Yeah, whatever, see above

    So show me how all the “antidotal” evidence in this thread is even relevant to the parent’s petition, cause I’m sure not seeing it.

    And while you are doing that, take a moment to go fuck yourself.
    A bit strong perhaps. Ultimately this was suppose to be about protecting the little dudes and dudettes. It evolved.

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Alpental
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    4,334
    Name:  IMG_9746.JPG
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    ďI have a responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is granted to them as ski patrollers.Ē

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    16,240
    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Totally true. But the resorts shouldn't be absolved of their role here. They WANT people to view them as Disney world, they want parents to believe that little Johnnie is being watched closely at all times. They (and we) may know that isn't true, but they don't want to make that abundantly clear (outside of some long legal waiver that people sign but don't read).

    Many parents didn't know that their 6 year old was riding a double chair with another 6 year old. There may have been no other options, and it may have been done this way for years, but the resort had a vested interest in not being completely transparent about this.
    and i would never let my 7 year ride a slow-moving ride suspended 30 feet off the ground without an adult or some kind of restraint at disneyland.

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    16,240
    Quote Originally Posted by beece View Post
    Agree on the slamming down problem, but the phenomena of not using the bar when it's there confuses me. I do this too - perfectly good bar, often with footrests, and my instinct is to not use it. Why the hell wouldn't we use it? Are we trying to be tough?

    What is wrong with us?
    i always put the bar down. even when i'm alone.

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    16,240
    when i signed my kid up for powderhounds i told them if they couldn't promise that my then 6 year old would always ride with an adult, i wouldn't sign up. they said no problem. every day i dropped him in the morning and at lunch, i reminded the various instructors. it was fine except for the one time they were waiting on day 3 and told the boy to take a practice run on the bunny slope by himself.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    380
    Quote Originally Posted by wyeaster View Post
    and i would never let my 7 year ride a slow-moving ride suspended 30 feet off the ground without an adult or some kind of restraint at disneyland.
    Yea the whole idea of a chairlift is pretty antiquated when you put it that way.

    More importantly though, what's the right way to rest a snowboard on the foot rest?

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
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    16,240
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstateofmind View Post
    Yea the whole idea of a chairlift is pretty antiquated when you put it that way.

    More importantly though, what's the right way to rest a snowboard on the foot rest?
    straight as possible so you're not occupying other peoples' space. i always try to load on the inside or outside. my knee does not enjoy the hang and i prefer not to rest the board on my other boot.

  18. #118
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    north aspect
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    41,825
    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstateofmind View Post
    More importantly though, what's the right way to rest a snowboard on the foot rest?
    Alta folks would say anywhere else but there
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

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