Eldora parents start petition for safety upgrades

[californiagrown]

What the fuck?

Just brought that fucking bar right down immediately without asking and looking around and then and yakking on?

Welcome to Europe. SOP is to slam the bar down before skis leave the snow. Especially difficult to get used to for us taller N. Americans.

It struck me as very odd how over-the-top conscious everyone was about safety bars, and how much money resorts put into automatic and expensive safety bars... but then don't bother signing a 50m cliff, thats located 20m off a groomer, or have any patrol visible anywhere. weird contradiction IMO.

[boardtodeath]

Agree on the slamming down problem, but the phenomena of not using the bar when it's there confuses me. I do this too - perfectly good bar, often with footrests, and my instinct is to not use it. Why the hell wouldn't we use it? Are we trying to be tough?

What is wrong with us?

It's annoying and I've personally seen it cause injuries and almost knock people off the chair? I mostly snowboard but regardless of what sort of equipment I have on, 99% of the time I will be more comfortable without the bar down. I'm also 6 foot 4.

I mean I don't think I've ever seen a patroller in LCC use a bar either, so clearly its a pretty common thing to ignore. At the end of the day, I am simply more comfortable with it up most of the time.

[mcski]

Squaw removed the footrests, but kept the bars on headwall chair last season. I like using the bar regardless, but removing the footrest pissed off me off taking away my leg rest mode

[raisingarizona13]

I like safety bars and foot rests. It's definitely more dangerous without them.

[Jong Lafitte]

I have not seen any formal report, but the eyewitness reports I read all said that she never fully loaded, and they were yelling at the liftie to stop the lift because she was going higher and higher while not fully loaded, but the lift wasn't stopped until after she fell. She was reportedly ~30' high when she fell.

As I noted before, the accident that spurred this petition appears to be a liftie-related one, and a safety bar sure wouldn't have helped her, and it's not clear that an adult would have either, especially if that adult was a beginner (but maybe, hard to know, and very hard to know when only going by reports and not having seen the accident).

This petition is essentially the result of the posts that not bunion and I have above, the parents realized that the resort's portrait of it being a safe disneyland was not true. I think the responsibility for that realization lies both with the parents and the resort. The parents have a responsibility to educate themselves about the sport in general and the lessons being offered at this resort in particular, but the resort has a responsibility to be transparent as well. Not to mention a responsibility to take all reasonable safety measures. Which brings us back to the question of what are reasonable safety measures.

I take that back, actually, the Camera article def says "Investigators said a preliminary investigation indicates the fall was accidental and that the 6-year-old was never fully seated in the lift before falling." I'm just bad at the google and trying to figure where the info (outside of the petition) that she was 'never fully seated in the lift before falling' had come from.

http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-c...irl-falls-lift

That lift moves sooo slow. How in the fuck do they not notice someone who's not loaded? Shit.

Feel bad for the little girl.

[TBS]

I’ve seen it happen twice in my 15 years of skiing. Both on chairs w/o a bar. Both times on hard pack. One died. Kind of a shitty thing to watch happen.

Hope that fills your need for antidotal data.

But why does it matter to you? And why are you so anti progress. Safety bars do not gaurentee not falling out, but they do make a difference. Stop being such and obtuse old fuck.

Not anti-progress. Just anti-stupid responses that won’t make a difference.

I’ve seen the immediate aftermath of three dismounts > 10’ in just three years. At just one resort. All teenagers or adults.

I Just don’t see how requiring a random adult ride along with every unaccompanied six YO (per the petition) Is gonna make any fucking difference. Sounds to me like better lift op training would be more effective, no? That guy at vail several years ago who took a ride upside down without his pants is a great example

I looked at all the incidents Beece listed upthread. Eight was the youngest victim. Most were teenagers or adults - who’s gonna be the designated grownup for these clowns?

Look at that viral Whistler incident. The kid is with three adults. That didn’t seem to work out so well.

Then there’s the kid with their head stuck between the bar and armrest- while it prevented her from falling out, the adults didn’t exactly provide a safe environment.

So show me how all the “antidotal” evidence in this thread is even relevant to the parent’s petition, cause I’m sure not seeing it.

And while you are doing that, take a moment to go fuck yourself.

[baron]

Kids or Adults> it clearly states in our lift ticket agreement

:must have prior knowledge to load and ride lifts ,or ask operator for help loading and unloading:

they didn't think they needed to say "stay in the seat too"!

[Bunion 2020]

It struck me as very odd how over-the-top conscious everyone was about safety bars, and how much money resorts put into automatic and expensive safety bars... but then don't bother signing a 50m cliff, thats located 20m off a groomer, or have any patrol visible anywhere. weird contradiction IMO.

I mean I don't think I've ever seen a patroller in LCC use a bar either, so clearly its a pretty common thing to ignore. At the end of the day, I am simply more comfortable with it up most of the time.

Same here but if someone really wants it down I am OK with that

Squaw removed the footrests, but kept the bars on headwall chair last season. I like using the bar regardless, but removing the footrest pissed off me off taking away my leg rest mode

Yeah, pretty stupid.

I like safety bars and foot rests. It's definitely more dangerous without them.

Yeah, whatever, see above

So show me how all the “antidotal” evidence in this thread is even relevant to the parent’s petition, cause I’m sure not seeing it.

And while you are doing that, take a moment to go fuck yourself.

A bit strong perhaps. Ultimately this was suppose to be about protecting the little dudes and dudettes. It evolved.

[snoqpass]

[wyeaster]

Totally true. But the resorts shouldn't be absolved of their role here. They WANT people to view them as Disney world, they want parents to believe that little Johnnie is being watched closely at all times. They (and we) may know that isn't true, but they don't want to make that abundantly clear (outside of some long legal waiver that people sign but don't read).

Many parents didn't know that their 6 year old was riding a double chair with another 6 year old. There may have been no other options, and it may have been done this way for years, but the resort had a vested interest in not being completely transparent about this.

and i would never let my 7 year ride a slow-moving ride suspended 30 feet off the ground without an adult or some kind of restraint at disneyland.

[wyeaster]

Agree on the slamming down problem, but the phenomena of not using the bar when it's there confuses me. I do this too - perfectly good bar, often with footrests, and my instinct is to not use it. Why the hell wouldn't we use it? Are we trying to be tough?

What is wrong with us?

i always put the bar down. even when i'm alone.

[wyeaster]

when i signed my kid up for powderhounds i told them if they couldn't promise that my then 6 year old would always ride with an adult, i wouldn't sign up. they said no problem. every day i dropped him in the morning and at lunch, i reminded the various instructors. it was fine except for the one time they were waiting on day 3 and told the boy to take a practice run on the bunny slope by himself.

[Greenstateofmind]

and i would never let my 7 year ride a slow-moving ride suspended 30 feet off the ground without an adult or some kind of restraint at disneyland.

Yea the whole idea of a chairlift is pretty antiquated when you put it that way.

More importantly though, what's the right way to rest a snowboard on the foot rest?

[wyeaster]

Yea the whole idea of a chairlift is pretty antiquated when you put it that way.

More importantly though, what's the right way to rest a snowboard on the foot rest?

straight as possible so you're not occupying other peoples' space. i always try to load on the inside or outside. my knee does not enjoy the hang and i prefer not to rest the board on my other boot.

[Conundrum]

and i would never let my 7 year ride a slow-moving ride suspended 30 feet off the ground without an adult or some kind of restraint at disneyland.

Your seven year old may never ride switch to the road.

[Ottime]

Not anti-progress. Just anti-stupid responses that won’t make a difference.

I’ve seen the immediate aftermath of three dismounts > 10’ in just three years. At just one resort. All teenagers or adults.

I Just don’t see how requiring a random adult ride along with every unaccompanied six YO (per the petition) Is gonna make any fucking difference. Sounds to me like better lift op training would be more effective, no? That guy at vail several years ago who took a ride upside down without his pants is a great example

I looked at all the incidents Beece listed upthread. Eight was the youngest victim. Most were teenagers or adults - who’s gonna be the designated grownup for these clowns?

Look at that viral Whistler incident. The kid is with three adults. That didn’t seem to work out so well.

Then there’s the kid with their head stuck between the bar and armrest- while it prevented her from falling out, the adults didn’t exactly provide a safe environment.

So show me how all the “antidotal” evidence in this thread is even relevant to the parent’s petition, cause I’m sure not seeing it.

And while you are doing that, take a moment to go fuck yourself.

Well, you were asking antidotal evidence. I'm just here to provide. Never made a claim that it mattered, but it seemed important to you.

As for the petition, see my above posts. I agree most of it is pure bullshit. But a bar is an easy enough thing to install. Would not make a difference in this case, but it sure would of for the person I watched forward roll off the chair while dealing with their boot.

Anyway, have a nice day.

[Shaaarrrp]

Not anti-progress. Just anti-stupid responses that won’t make a difference.

I’ve seen the immediate aftermath of three dismounts > 10’ in just three years. At just one resort. All teenagers or adults.

I Just don’t see how requiring a random adult ride along with every unaccompanied six YO (per the petition) Is gonna make any fucking difference. Sounds to me like better lift op training would be more effective, no? That guy at vail several years ago who took a ride upside down without his pants is a great example

I looked at all the incidents Beece listed upthread. Eight was the youngest victim. Most were teenagers or adults - who’s gonna be the designated grownup for these clowns?

Look at that viral Whistler incident. The kid is with three adults. That didn’t seem to work out so well.

Then there’s the kid with their head stuck between the bar and armrest- while it prevented her from falling out, the adults didn’t exactly provide a safe environment.

So show me how all the “antidotal” evidence in this thread is even relevant to the parent’s petition, cause I’m sure not seeing it.

And while you are doing that, take a moment to go fuck yourself.

[Yonder_River]

The beginner lifts at alpental where I have three boys in lessons are the old school two seaters with no bar. They regularly load up to 5 or 6 year olds together, no adult. Never thought to complain as it seems logistically hard to always have an adult along.

I've beaten chair safety into them and tell them to sit still and always hold onto the side. My 5 year old is small for his age though and it still freaks me out when his legs barely reach the front when he is all the way back.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[snoqpass]

Way more adults have fallen out of chairlifts than kids

[skiracer88_00]

I don't suppose you can quantify "significantly" in a public setting, by any chance?

I'm really curious because I can think of a few relatively modern chairs that have fittings for bars but don't actually have them. I get that retrofitting an older chair that doesn't even have fittings could be cost-prohibitive, especially if the manufacturer doesn't exist and you need to get someone to fab custom bars, but for relatively recent lifts (I'm thinking of a 1996 Garaventa CTEC detachable in particular) the only downsides I can come up with are cost and weight, and I would think you could just pull an appropriate number of carriers off the line if the added weight from the bars was an issue. From a financial standpoint, not installing bars for a "significant" decrease in an annual cost seems silly, unless the cost for bar installation is substantially more significant. Then again, I'm not really a dentist, and I didn't stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night.

I'm trying to see if I can find any more concrete examples of relatively recent lifts (particularly detachables) without bars, but aside from looking through tons of photos, I'm not sure quite how to pull that off.

Also, recent but anecdotal: https://nltimes.nl/2019/02/22/dutch-...rench-ski-lift

two Poma 3-seater fixed grips were installed at Loveland in the past 5 years or so and neither have safety bars. However, the new detachable just installed this summer is their first lift with a bar.

[old goat]

Re bringing the bar down (which I usually do so I can lean on it to rest my back)--IMO it is the responsibility of the person bringing the bar down to make sure it doesn't hit anyone. Sometimes people have to move to avoid the bar hitting them. Don't just yell bar down and bring it down hard immediately.

Those of us with long legs can't use the footrests.
As far as snowboarders using the footrests--just do what everyone seems to do these days--rest your board on the legs of the skier next to you.

[snojones]

I am 6 foot 2 inches tall. The reason I don't use "safety bars" is that the foot rests are usually to short for my skis, bindings, boots and shins. I have to cram them into the contraption, and it is uncomfortable/ difficult to use most of them. In fact if someone insists on using the bar, I usually just let my feet hang under the foot rest. At least they fit there without prying or cramming.

Oh yeah... "safety bars" are, for sure, the very best reason to wear a helmet. The top of my head gets hit more by those bars than by the trees I love to ski in.

[Danno]

Oh yeah... "safety bars" are, for sure, the very best reason to wear a helmet. The top of my head gets hit more by those bars than by the trees I love to ski in.

Everyone says this, but I don't recall people complaining about this before helmets became ubiquitous. I think the bar hits many people in the head BECAUSE they are wearing a helmet (because their "head" extends farther up and back).

[Foggy_Goggles]

Those Boulder Mom's can bitch and whine all they want. The only way change is gonna happen is if the insurer or the Tram Board instigates it. The ski industry has plenty of legal protection in Colorado.

I'm always aware of the fact that the bar may be coming instantly. I got no problem up or down but if you don't ask, I just but my arm up and hold the bar from coming down. It usually takes a bit but the bar down guy usually figures it out. That when I say, "You can put the bar down but it is common courtesy to let the rest of the chair know, wait a couple of seconds and then put it down."

[MiddleOfNight]

Apparently testifying before CO senate committees and talking some legislative change.

https://coloradosun.com/2019/03/21/p...i-lift-safety/