737 MAX

[MultiVerse]

Plane Tests Must Use Average Pilots, NTSB Says After 737 MAX Crashes

Safety board says FAA should embrace data-driven approach to assumptions about pilot responses

Federal accident investigators called for broad changes in decades-old engineering principles and design assumptions related to pilot emergency responses, the first formal U.S. safety recommendations stemming from two fatal Boeing 737 MAX crashes.

As part of lessons learned from the crashes that took 346 lives and grounded the global MAX fleet, the National Transportation Safety Board suggested that Boeing Co. and the Federal Aviation Administration used unrealistic tests to initially certify the aircraft to carry passengers. The board also urged the plane maker and the FAA to pay more attention to interactions between humans and cockpit computers to ensure safety. The board wants Boeing and the FAA to reassess—and potentially jettison—what senior investigators portrayed as overly optimistic assumptions about the speed and effectiveness of cockpit-crew reactions to complex automation failures.

....

Both planes went down because pilots—seemingly confused and distracted by sometimes contradictory warnings prompted by faulty sensor readings—failed to cope with a powerful automated flight-control feature, called MCAS, that pushed down the noses of the jets and ultimately put them into unrecoverable dives.

NTSB officials told reporters that before the MAX began commercial service Boeing failed to test—and the FAA never asked to see demonstrated—the full range of alerts, warnings and related system failures that could result from an MCAS misfire. Pilots of the ill-fated jets were overwhelmed by multiple alerts caused by a single malfunctioning sensor, leading to what safety experts call task saturation.

....

Senior NTSB investigators questioned historical assumptions that pilots can be counted on to identify certain in-flight emergencies and respond to them within seconds.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/plane-t...6401?mod=rsswn

[frorider]

https://newrepublic.com/article/1549...ial-revolution

......was this already posted? Good read.

[L82thegate]

Long read but doesn't miss much. Saw a lot of this first hand and it's a little painful. There really was a struggle between the good ol' Boeing folks and a cadre of junk-bond salesmen and we know who won. Harvard business school was mentioned and I've never respected their Management philosophy. At least not in the aircraft business.

[SumJongGuy]

Meanwhile, the pickleforks that hold the wings on the other next generation 737s are cracking,,, supposed to last the lifetime of the jet..

Unexpected cracking found on critical Boeing 737 Next Generation part

[iceman]

pffft, those don't sound important.

[JongDoe]

Yeah, pretty sure I've seen more than 1 movie where the pilot was able to land a plane with only 1 engine.
Oh wait, this would be only 1 wing.

[jono]

https://newrepublic.com/article/1549...ial-revolution

......was this already posted? Good read.

That was a really solid read. It deserves a more explicit conclusion: the villains and (at least) one of the victims of this story share a profession as capitalists. Unlike the engineers, the only indication of malpractice on the part of capitalists are their bankruptcies, and since they pocketed their rewards fast enough (and hid behind the corporate veil) so as never to lose anything themselves the Jack and Harry types still won.

It's an amazing walk down memory lane to read about all the stupid shit at Boeing after they sold out to MD and recall that we all (everyone in the industry and pretty much anyone in Seattle) knew that Harry was evil incarnate at the time and that this was the inevitable result of chasing "shareholder value" in the short term. It was commonly discussed at the time and the only question under debate was whether the long-standing culture would completely buckle or if those who knew better would hang on just enough to prevent disaster. The answer should have been obvious: for proponents of safety, winning too many battles means losing the war when people feel safe. Worst of all, the capitalists actually are safe--if they can keep their families from flying.

[neufox47]

Meanwhile, the pickleforks that hold the wings on the other next generation 737s are cracking,,, supposed to last the lifetime of the jet..

Unexpected cracking found on critical Boeing 737 Next Generation part

Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy as I will fly on 3 separate 737NGs on Tuesday.

[iceman]

They're not all they're cracked up to be.

Jono I think the tide may be starting to turn a bit on this whole shareholder value uber alles mentality, certainly it's only a start, but this is not a headine you could have seen five years ago: https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...tions-purpose/ Boeing happens to be one of the signees, we'll see if it means anything.

[Ted Striker]

[jono]

They're not all they're cracked up to be.

Jono I think the tide may be starting to turn a bit on this whole shareholder value uber alles mentality, certainly it's only a start, but this is not a headine you could have seen five years ago: https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...tions-purpose/ Boeing happens to be one of the signees, we'll see if it means anything.

Call me a cynic, but I'll believe it when I see how it helps Jamie get paid. Harry Stonecipher wanted to "unlock shareholder value" because he wanted the key, obviously. What's changed? We aren't looking at late stage capitalism so much as late stage Monopoly. Whatever they have to say to avoid increased competition/corporate breakups. Regulation? Taxes? Small price to pay to retain the monopolies.

[old goat]

I you put a 737Max on a treadmill, will it crash?

[Benny Profane]

http://www.sullysullenberger.com/my-...imes-magazine/

[Benny Profane]

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...-of-our-times/

[SumJongGuy]

I you put a 737Max on a treadmill, WHEN will it crash?

Fixed it for you

[L82thegate]

The story gets more interesting as facts emerge surrounding the behavior of certain individuals. The whistleblower is spot on and it's hard to believe Boeing would compromise safety over schedule and market concerns. It was bad enough that I took early retirement rather than butt heads with people I wouldn't trust with a paper route. The Max program twisted metrics to bolster claims of running a tight ship and when you start a pattern of deceit, it has a way of reverberating through many things. Really sad but somehow predictable.

[glademaster]

Don't worry, there will be a chorus of sphincter-licking sycophants and apologists coming to Boeing's defense shortly. It's the western Washington way: there is no such thing as corporate wrongdoing or accountability, the interests of the business supersede all others.

[The AD]

There would be a certain schadenfreude to be able to say "Hey, remember those decisions you made? Nice job!" to whomever made the decisions that sacrificed safety on the MAX. I don't feel bad at all that these guys have to live with decisions that ended up killing hundreds of people for the rest of their lives. That's the business we're in. Safety must never be compromised.

[iceman]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/b...sultPosition=1

Somebody's going to jail.

[Benny Profane]

Nobody goes to jail. They get promoted.

[SumJongGuy]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/b...sultPosition=1

Somebody's going to jail.

Nobody goes to jail. They get promoted.

While saying "Get over it!"

[The AD]

So, turns out the test pilot's messages had nothing to do with MCAS, but rather a software glitch in the flight simulator:
https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ilot-messages/

[iceman]

So no jail? Dammit.

[PNWbrit]

McAllister, head of the commercial airplanes unit is out.

[Toadman]

Nobody goes to jail. They get promoted.

Maybe not jail, but no promotions for this dude.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/22/b...callister.html