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Thread: 737 MAX

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    737 MAX

    No thread on this turkey yet ?

    I wana book a flight after ski season to stave off the depression that usually comes with the end of the season but a whole bunch of airplanes have been grounded so i wonder how thats gona play on ticket sales ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
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    Flying into smithers on the 21st morning on AC turboprop. See you then? Sharon is going to start pubcrawling stat

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    Only Southwest, American and Air Canada use the 737 max in North America, and even then they are only a small percentage of their fleets. And my $0.02 is that the Boeing electrical and computer engineers will have a software patch out by the end of March to fix or disable this new stall prevention feature that appears to be the issue here, and make them like the older 737's
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    US commercial carriers operate almost 7200+ jets with 2+ engines. 1700+ are various flavors of 737, but only a few are MAX.

    Between Southwest, American, and United, 72 aircraft are grounded temporarily, or 1% of the US commercial fleet.

    It is suspected but unknown if the Indonesian and Ethiopian crashes are linked, and if so, the suspected link is software. So once they determine a link, cause, patch, and test, the planes will be cleared. The situation is not unprecedented.

    Dunno what Air Canada operates.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Flying into smithers on the 21st morning on AC turboprop. See you then? Sharon is going to start pubcrawling stat
    you and Shar can fight over who has to sit in the Ranger jump seat,

    you are so smart to come early enough fo yo skis to catch up to you

    ac always leaves the skis off the plane you know lah !
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJSapp View Post
    Only Southwest, American and Air Canada use the 737 max in North America, and even then they are only a small percentage of their fleets. And my $0.02 is that the Boeing electrical and computer engineers will have a software patch out by the end of March to fix or disable this new stall prevention feature that appears to be the issue here, and make them like the older 737's
    Yeah, well, do you want to be on that first beta test flight with the new software?

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    737 MAX

    Quote Originally Posted by DJSapp View Post
    Only Southwest, American and Air Canada use the 737 max in North America, and even then they are only a small percentage of their fleets. And my $0.02 is that the Boeing electrical and computer engineers will have a software patch out by the end of March to fix or disable this new stall prevention feature that appears to be the issue here, and make them like the older 737's
    Air Canada has 24, Westjet has 13 currently in service. Sunwing has the remaining 4 of the 41 max 8 & 9 that have been taken out of service.
    I’ve flown on a 737 max once. It was way fucking cramped. Hated that flight, took most of the next day to work out the kinks from being shoehorned into that sardine can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Yeah, well, do you want to be on that first beta test flight with the new software?
    I'd be fine with it. The patch will make the plane not do something rather than take an unwanted action. As long as Denzel isn't flying, I'm cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberridge View Post
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."


    I have an adage about this place: the first reply is often the best reply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJSapp View Post
    And my $0.02 is that the Boeing electrical and computer engineers will have a software patch out by the end of March to fix or disable this new stall prevention feature that appears to be the issue here, and make them like the older 737's
    It's there for a reason, so I don't think they will disable it completely. My understanding is that the new engines on the MAX affected the center of gravity and, thus, the stability of the aircraft making pitch up problems more likely. That's what the MCAS system is intended to correct. The interesting thing to me is that everyone seems to be assigning blame to the MCAS software, but the actual root cause is a faulty reading from the angle of attack (AOA) sensor. I find it very surprising that the system is relying on this single sensor. System redundancy is the cornerstone of aviation safety and in this case it seems like there's no redundancy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Yeah, well, do you want to be on that first beta test flight with the new software?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    US commercial carriers operate 7000+ jets with 2+ engines.

    Between Southwest, American, and United, 72 aircraft are grounded temporarily, or 1% of the US commercial fleet.

    It is suspected but unknown if the Indonesian and Ethiopian crashes are linked, and if so, the suspected link is software. So once they determine a link, cause, patch, and test, the planes will be cleared. The situation is not unprecedented.

    Dunno what Air Canada operates.
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/boe...gers-1.5053882

    the Max is pretty much grounded everywhere in the world, in Canada 41 airplanes out of 600 from 3 carriers are grounded so thats a higher % than America

    the thing is airplanes pretty much run completely filled nowdays so that has to at least have some kind of short term affect but if the max felt cramped that would be how AC configured it

    apparently Boeing hung bigger engines on the max for better fuel economy which altered the CG so they are trying to counteract that with software
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    It's there for a reason, so I don't think they will disable it completely. My understanding is that the new engines on the MAX affected the center of gravity and, thus, the stability of the aircraft making pitch up problems more likely. That's what the MCAS system is intended to correct. The interesting thing to me is that everyone seems to be assigning blame to the MCAS software, but the actual root cause is a faulty reading from the angle of attack (AOA) sensor. I find it very surprising that the system is relying on this single sensor. System redundancy is the cornerstone of aviation safety and in this case it seems like there's no redundancy.
    this ^^
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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    Flying... still much safer than driving per passenger mile.

    737MAX: 2 hull losses of 376. 0.5% loss rate over the course of about 2 years. ~0.25% hulls lost per year.

    707 all: 176 hull losses of 1010. 17.5% loss rate over 61 years. ~0.25% hulls lost per year.

    737 all: 184 hull losses of 10510. 1.75% loss rate over 51 years. ~0.034% hulls lost per year.

    Yes I know that is a mild abuse of stats. The 737MAX rates will get better. The 707 ended commercial flights this year.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
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    Southwest has like 34 currently but has ordered 245 MAX 8 and 40 MAX 9
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

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    Obligatory


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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Flying... still much safer than driving per passenger mile.
    Flying has become incredibly safe and I think that fact has made the public reaction even more adamant when a plane does crash. People just are not going to be rational when it comes to a plane nosediving into the ground.

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    IANAP, but I do study aviation accidents (father and grandfather, both pilots, did this professionally). Pilots have told me that computer override of pilot input, particularly in sensitive flight regimes or emergency situations, has been the Airbus thing, while Boeing has been more about the manual control. Airbus's computer control systems (or poor flight crew interactions/understanding thereof) have been blamed in several Airbus crashes. So now we see a Boeing with it and it is a deadly problem in some instances, to be corrected.

    But the military has been doing it much longer since military aircraft are built for maneuverability (which requires inherent instability). See DARPA/Grumman X-29 in 1985 for one of the first computer controlled flight stability systems to manage inherent instability (that is not the same thing as autopilot). See the 1990 DARPA Rockwell Messerschmitt X-31 crash for an example of confused flight stability computers causing a crash (pito tube heat was off, computer thought airspeed was 0). That similar to the the Airbus A330 Air France 447 fatal crash in 2009, except the A330 was poor crew reaction and it was salvageable (crew stalled the airplane), while the X-31 wasn't salvageable (German test pilot ejected and survived).


    Ground: "We think [pitot heat] may not be hooked up."
    Pilot: "May not be hooked up? Dats gut. I like dat." *pulls handles*
    Ground: "We have an ejection!"
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  21. #21
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    Boeing fucked with probably the biggest selling airplane they have ever made

    with all the stuff they did to the 737 max is it really still a 737 ?


    I often fly in a turbo otter on floats so I asked the pilot why the nose is so long ?

    he said compared to the old radial the turbo has twice the HP and weighs alot less so they had to put the engine out there to balance the plane
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Shirk View Post
    I'd be fine with it. The patch will make the plane not do something rather than take an unwanted action. As long as Denzel isn't flying, I'm cool.
    Ok. But, wait. You're then saying that they put planes in the air that were almost good to go, but, just needed a little software patch to be safe. Right?
    Last edited by Benny Profane; 03-14-2019 at 12:27 PM.

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    John Nance continues to believe that the fix is as simple as immediately turning off the MCAS system when a problem becomes apparent. This then is a training error because non North American pilots are trained to allow the electronic avionic systems do their job in times of trouble.

    But there was a crash documented on Smithsonian's "Air Disasters" (I can't figure out which episode) where am Airbus went into a midflight stall and the crash was caused by the pilots taking active measures to correct the problem. It was claimed that if the pilots had literally removed their hands from the controls the planes self preservation flightware would have corrected the stall.

    So the take-away is that avionics can save a plane unless it can't.

    Great

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Flying... still much safer than driving per passenger mile.

    737MAX: 2 hull losses of 376. 0.5% loss rate over the course of about 2 years. ~0.25% hulls lost per year.

    707 all: 176 hull losses of 1010. 17.5% loss rate over 61 years. ~0.25% hulls lost per year.

    737 all: 184 hull losses of 10510. 1.75% loss rate over 51 years. ~0.034% hulls lost per year.

    Yes I know that is a mild abuse of stats. The 737MAX rates will get better. The 707 ended commercial flights this year.
    You sound like a good candidate for beta test #1 flight.

    Let's do some livin'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    You sound like a good candidate for beta test #1 flight.
    Sure, if my other choice is driving, you asshat.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

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