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  1. #1
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    Sep 2013
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    4frnt Hoji vs Moment Deathwish

    Hoji vs Deathwish for light touring with kingpins, what would you choose and why?

  2. #2
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    May 2008
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    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
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    I have been skiing and touring on Hoji + radicals for 2 seasons. Spring hard/corn snow and winter pow. Just a super versatile ski for just about all conditions. Nice and pivoty for tight trees after a long day just trying to get back to the truck. Only downside is not the best performance on the steepest of he-man skin tracks. Otherwise, great setup.

    I have skied the DW a few days, but no touring. It's definitely a great ski, but wouldn't be my choice unless I was only skiing big open faces. I was on the 190 and it likes to go straight mostly. Plus, I probably should have been on the 184 of the DW. I had trouble driving that ski with a relatively soft Lange Freetour 130. DW probably has better grip on the uphill. New DW tour would probably be dope though.

    Really depends on your style, but the Hoji has been pretty highly regarded as a damn near quiver killer. Someone with more time on the DW should chime in though.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I have been skiing and touring on Hoji + radicals for 2 seasons. Spring hard/corn snow and winter pow. Just a super versatile ski for just about all conditions. Nice and pivoty for tight trees after a long day just trying to get back to the truck. Only downside is not the best performance on the steepest of he-man skin tracks. Otherwise, great setup.

    I have skied the DW a few days, but no touring. It's definitely a great ski, but wouldn't be my choice unless I was only skiing big open faces. I was on the 190 and it likes to go straight mostly. Plus, I probably should have been on the 184 of the DW. I had trouble driving that ski with a relatively soft Lange Freetour 130. DW probably has better grip on the uphill. New DW tour would probably be dope though.

    Really depends on your style, but the Hoji has been pretty highly regarded as a damn near quiver killer. Someone with more time on the DW should chime in though.
    Thank you for your input, I am considering Hoji more than DW, both skis 112 but I guess Hoji is a little bit lighter. New DW tour I think is 106

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    114
    The new deathwish tour is 112. Its the same as the regular deathwish but in a touring layup. I haven't skied the Hoji, so keep that in mind but I would personally choose the deathwish for touring duties because my friends who tour on Hojis cant really hang in the steeper/firmer skin tracks. I would also counter what guardian said about the deathwish being hard to drive/wanting to go straight. I'm 5'11" 165lbs and I tele on the 190. The Deathwish pivots and slashes much easier than the 188 salomon q115 it replaced (probably not as easily as a hoji tho), while simultaneously being much more stable in a straight line. I wasn't a huge believer in the triple camber when I got the skis, I was more interested in the flex and dimensions, but now I am a total believer.

    If you stand up straighter and keep the edge angles low, they pivot and turn on that flat camber underfoot. That combined with the progressive mount point make them suprisingly quick in trees, especially for being 190cm. If you get on the gas and lean forward/into those edges however, its a totally different ballgame and you have oodles of grip and pop on hardpack. Not more than you would from any traditionally cambered 112 underfoot ski, but way more that you should considering how loose they are in other situations. If you're a tip driving charger type I can see thinking that the DW wants to go straight because when you're up on edge it really locks into that 27m turn radius. If you stay a little more centered though I find them very very easy to break loose and smear. To me its like having two pairs of skis on my feet at the same time, which is pretty awesome once you get the hang of it.

    I think the DW will be slightly more versatile for all conditions touring, especially on the up, but if you're mostly skiing pow the Hojis are probably better.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeleBeaver View Post
    The new deathwish tour is 112. Its the same as the regular deathwish but in a touring layup. I haven't skied the Hoji, so keep that in mind but I would personally choose the deathwish for touring duties because my friends who tour on Hojis cant really hang in the steeper/firmer skin tracks. I would also counter what guardian said about the deathwish being hard to drive/wanting to go straight. I'm 5'11" 165lbs and I tele on the 190. The Deathwish pivots and slashes much easier than the 188 salomon q115 it replaced (probably not as easily as a hoji tho), while simultaneously being much more stable in a straight line. I wasn't a huge believer in the triple camber when I got the skis, I was more interested in the flex and dimensions, but now I am a total believer.

    If you stand up straighter and keep the edge angles low, they pivot and turn on that flat camber underfoot. That combined with the progressive mount point make them suprisingly quick in trees, especially for being 190cm. If you get on the gas and lean forward/into those edges however, its a totally different ballgame and you have oodles of grip and pop on hardpack. Not more than you would from any traditionally cambered 112 underfoot ski, but way more that you should considering how loose they are in other situations. If you're a tip driving charger type I can see thinking that the DW wants to go straight because when you're up on edge it really locks into that 27m turn radius. If you stay a little more centered though I find them very very easy to break loose and smear. To me its like having two pairs of skis on my feet at the same time, which is pretty awesome once you get the hang of it.

    I think the DW will be slightly more versatile for all conditions touring, especially on the up, but if you're mostly skiing pow the Hojis are probably better.
    Oh yes, now I see next year DW tour comes same as regular DW - 112 mm!
    PS my resort “pow” skis are Salomon Q 115

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeleBeaver View Post
    I would personally choose the deathwish for touring duties because my friends who tour on Hojis cant really hang in the steeper/firmer skin tracks.
    Why can't they? New to touring. Is it cause the flex of the ski? Shape?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Why can't they? New to touring. Is it cause the flex of the ski? Shape?
    I watched a friend struggle on steep, firm skintracks on the (OG) Hoji. Full rocker means minimal skin contact when the skin track is icy (which can happen on a well-used skinner even when you can still find pow after a storm). Ski crampons can alleviate it somewhat, but then you're going to be slower/working harder since ski crampon have a lot of drag.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    194
    I toured on the DW in a 190 for a few seasons and mostly agree with what TeleBeaver said. I didn't love the "two skis in one" aspect of the ski as much, but I got fairly used to it and had lots of great days on the skis in a wide range of conditions. The only real drawbacks of the ski from my perspective were the full twin tail and fairly forward mount (I was at -1 from recommended, which is -6 from centre). The tails sucked anytime I got into steep switchbacks on the way up and the forward mount led to the odd instance of tip dive/having to ski more centered/neutral than I wanted in deep pow/wind pressed pow.
    My experience on the Hoji consists of a couple runs on a demo day, so not much to offer there beyond thinking I would probably want to be on the 195, which is not what I'm looking for in a touring ski.
    If I was shopping these two skis today I'd personally take a very long look at the Wildcat 108 in the tour layup. I think the Bibby/Wildcat rocker profile works better than the DW's in soft snow and gives up very little on firm. I haven't skied the 108, but have lots of days on the Bibby and prefer it to the DW most of the time. YMMV of course.

  9. #9
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    Sep 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reformed View Post
    I toured on the DW in a 190 for a few seasons and mostly agree with what TeleBeaver said. I didn't love the "two skis in one" aspect of the ski as much, but I got fairly used to it and had lots of great days on the skis in a wide range of conditions. The only real drawbacks of the ski from my perspective were the full twin tail and fairly forward mount (I was at -1 from recommended, which is -6 from centre). The tails sucked anytime I got into steep switchbacks on the way up and the forward mount led to the odd instance of tip dive/having to ski more centered/neutral than I wanted in deep pow/wind pressed pow.
    My experience on the Hoji consists of a couple runs on a demo day, so not much to offer there beyond thinking I would probably want to be on the 195, which is not what I'm looking for in a touring ski.
    If I was shopping these two skis today I'd personally take a very long look at the Wildcat 108 in the tour layup. I think the Bibby/Wildcat rocker profile works better than the DW's in soft snow and gives up very little on firm. I haven't skied the 108, but have lots of days on the Bibby and prefer it to the DW most of the time. YMMV of course.
    http://www.mmntskis.com

    Moment introduces
    DW 112 tour
    Wildcat 108 tour
    Wildcat 116 tour

    So powder (deep snow) either DW or WC could be the money. I’ll wait till I try

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    114
    Quote Originally Posted by tanoleg View Post
    Oh yes, now I see next year DW tour comes same as regular DW - 112 mm!
    PS my resort “pow” skis are Salomon Q 115
    I have a lot of time on the q115, and a week on the DW. In really deep powder the q115s are a bit better. They just have a more traditional mount point and you can lean into those big tips and never sink em. I haven't really experienced much tip dive on the DWs (miner are mounted at -7 from center), but I ski them with a more upright stance to avoid it, and can tell that in particularly heavy or wet snow they will be more prone to plowing over planing. In every other situation the DW is superior. The more aggressive tail rocker and flat camber underfoot make them much looser for slashing and smearing in tight spots, but they are a fair bit stiffer up front and mach through chop so much better. The q115s have a strong tail but the tip was liable to fold up and deflect in firmer choppy snow, which is why I replaced em. I was willing to give up that little bit of untracked snow performance for huge gains in performance on the rest of the mountain. Plus I have megawatts as a pure pow ski if I think the DWs will be undergunned.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Vancouver BC
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    Are there weights available on the tour versions of the Deathwise, Wildcat 108 and Wildcat? Can't see them on the Moment website... I currently tour on old Hojis (2013) with old Radical ST 1.0's. Looking for something new next season. I like the Hojis shape/radius but would prefer less rocker and better hard snow performance. I really haven't enjoyed short radius ~20m sidecut skis in the past which is why I like 4FRNT so much and Moment seems to be similar philosophy.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
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    27
    Quote Originally Posted by gramboh View Post
    Are there weights available on the tour versions of the Deathwise, Wildcat 108 and Wildcat?
    All weights for every size, in both lbs and kg, are listed in a 'Dimensions' table if you scroll slightly down on the ski model page.

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