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  1. #26
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    if you are looking for something in an overall more similar class to your vectors (eg not 2.5cm wider), I have found that my Down LD90s are surprisingly resistant to tip dive

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LHutz Esq View Post
    When designing the my new skis - I went with a little bit more carbon in the tip.

    I haven't got a ton of testing on it yet - but it feels like it rises up onto the snow better and does not deflect when you compress into the snow at the initiation. I want it to float like a boat hull coming up on plane - not flex.

    It's a theory - but I wonder if the flex on the tips of some of these tip divy skis are a bit soft.
    IME, some damp suspension and flex from the shovels/tips assists with float and also bring some intangibles to the table...damp suspension with nice flex = cadillac slow mo rise and fall float and sexy feel. IMO, stiff skis that have a floaty profile just don't have the same sweet feel and feel more deflecty in hard breakable crusts, upside down snow, deep punchy slabby snow etc... Could be a style/technique thing though...i tend towards finesse, lean on the front of boots and flex ankles deeply, pressure ball of foot, slarve and massage the snow in my approach.

    Curious about these custom skis though, whatchyou got? Looking forward to hearing more progress reports on em in different conditions.
    Master of mediocrity.

  3. #28
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    Dec 2009
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    194
    Quote Originally Posted by daught View Post
    What about the steeples...?
    Quote Originally Posted by ACH View Post
    This is a BG with a tour layup, no?
    If so, think centered stance/no tip drive/pressure (IME with the BG anyway).
    I'm on the 184 Steeple 108. My experience doesn't match ACH's, but one person's idea of driving the tips vs another's are probably different as are skier weights, ramp angles, etc. etc. so who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by nickel View Post
    you want a pintail. Lotus 120 simply the most well known example.
    No experience on the 120, but the slight pintail on the Steeples combined with the relative width through the forebody of the ski and the rearward mount make for a tip that aggressively seeks the surface and responds well to pressure through the front of the boot. I haven't had any issues with the tips diving. If anything I'd suggest that the ski requires some forward pressure to balance out the slightly pinned tails and relatively wide fore body.

  4. #29
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    if you are looking for something in an overall more similar class to your vectors (eg not 2.5cm wider), I have found that my Down LD90s are surprisingly resistant to tip dive
    LD 102 is nicely pintailed for a ski that size. I have always been rather attracted to this one although I have yet to pull the trigger.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickel View Post
    LD 102 is nicely pintailed for a ski that size. I have always been rather attracted to this one although I have yet to pull the trigger.
    I had its predecessor and it was great, and would also be a suitable option for the op I think

  6. #31
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    Oct 2017
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    183
    If you are going to have multiple setups just go big. Maybe keep the vectors and go full fat.

    I have pair of Pescadoís and they are the most tip dive adverse ski Iíve been on and they really quite fun as a touring setup. If you
    are not landing switch they make more sense than the bent chetler.

  7. #32
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    Dec 2010
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    Pescado has a lot of sidecut, although the vector does too if memory serves. Personally, I hate that in a touring ski... in almost any ski really.

    I wish the LD102 came in a 19x...

  8. #33
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    Feb 2008
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    Donner Summit
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    701
    Look for some Carbon Megawatts, massive tip rocker and a traditional mount.

  9. #34
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    Sep 2018
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    31
    Came here to be like the tenth person to say get L120s. I love em, ski them almost daily in the backcountry. My touring buddy has pintailed wailer 112 and he also does not have any tip dive so maybe those could work for you too.

  10. #35
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    Sep 2011
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    554
    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    IME, some damp suspension and flex from the shovels/tips assists with float and also bring some intangibles to the table...damp suspension with nice flex = cadillac slow mo rise and fall float and sexy feel. IMO, stiff skis that have a floaty profile just don't have the same sweet feel and feel more deflecty in hard breakable crusts, upside down snow, deep punchy slabby snow etc... Could be a style/technique thing though...i tend towards finesse, lean on the front of boots and flex ankles deeply, pressure ball of foot, slarve and massage the snow in my approach.

    Curious about these custom skis though, whatchyou got? Looking forward to hearing more progress reports on em in different conditions.
    I generally agree, we used birch stringers to provide the dampening in v 1.0.. The actual tips (like tippy tips) had carbon and then carbon stringers. We added some more carbon into the tip a bit further down to provide a more resistant flex - so not really "stiffer" per se - just not noodly, and yet not springy. I find many lightweight touring skis are like trying to ride a hardtail mountain bike - sure the stiffness and light weight gets you up faster, but the cost is that plush ride on the down.

    My design parameters were the "Smithers local Dad Ski". I get out and get after it when I can but I gots me some kids and a job. I want a ski that I can put on at the ski out (basically down the street from my house) - ski to the top do a couple laps of something fun and ski home. So it needed to be "light enough" - but not too light see above, needed to be stiff enough to rip an icy face or even a groomer - but not too stiff (see above), and it needed to be fun.

    I think we hit it. Built them with James at Paranormal. The only reason we went to v2.0 is he had the more carbon mor better tip idea. When you think about it all we really did was the plastic bit you added on to your skis - but in carbon/birch/poplar. I am thinking that your plastic add on does not flex much (well except where it attaches to the ski).

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    Here is the layup of v.1, v2 has little 10-25 cm stingers going down between the existing ones (where you can see the birch peaking through). One thing I didn't want was the Wailer 112 "floppy toe" feeling.
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  11. #36
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    Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by LHutz Esq View Post
    I generally agree, we used birch stringers to provide the dampening in v 1.0.. The actual tips (like tippy tips) had carbon and then carbon stringers. We added some more carbon into the tip a bit further down to provide a more resistant flex - so not really "stiffer" per se - just not noodly, and yet not springy. I find many lightweight touring skis are like trying to ride a hardtail mountain bike - sure the stiffness and light weight gets you up faster, but the cost is that plush ride on the down.

    My design parameters were the "Smithers local Dad Ski". I get out and get after it when I can but I gots me some kids and a job. I want a ski that I can put on at the ski out (basically down the street from my house) - ski to the top do a couple laps of something fun and ski home. So it needed to be "light enough" - but not too light see above, needed to be stiff enough to rip an icy face or even a groomer - but not too stiff (see above), and it needed to be fun.

    I think we hit it. Built them with James at Paranormal. The only reason we went to v2.0 is he had the more carbon mor better tip idea. When you think about it all we really did was the plastic bit you added on to your skis - but in carbon/birch/poplar. I am thinking that your plastic add on does not flex much (well except where it attaches to the ski).
    Beauty looking boards! Thanks for the detailed description of design goals and preliminary results.

    Now, I am curious...have you skied them in various shallow, deep and deeper pow conditions? Do they feel 'balanced' and intuitive based on your preferred ski feel? If so, wondering if the measurement in cms of top of your kneecap to floor standing barefoot is somewhat close to the measurement of your binding mount boot center to front rocker contact point? I've been using that number to bend rocker front and rear into my skis and have found with all of em regardless of shape, stiffness, sidecut they all feel more natural, intuitive and balanced in natural snow conditions. Need more beta testers to confirm a developing gut feel hypothesis though.

    As for my tip extenders...they made from 1/4 inch lexan...the stuff is kinda stiff but flexy and seems to add damping to the front of the ski. It's the material that hockey rink glass is made of, so they bend but don't break...tested in the skiing context by hitting various trees and a few rocks (unintentionally) over the years. Tough stuff. It does add tip flap to my jj's but it's something that doesn't seem to bother me...i kinda find it's superfluous and doesn't detract from ski performance if the tips aren't engaged in 3D snow...all the edge hold is underfoot so for me, it's just a visual thing if looking down...which i don't. If i'm charging at mach schnel, eyes are on the prize down the fall line.
    Master of mediocrity.

  12. #37
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    Mar 2016
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    114
    Quote Originally Posted by teledad View Post
    Look for some Carbon Megawatts, massive tip rocker and a traditional mount.
    Megawatts are another example of a fat pintail style ski ala L120. No way I can sink the tips of my blue megawatts.

  13. #38
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by daught View Post
    I been touring for a long time on voile vectors. Lately, since I started skiing with the extra weight of an airbag, I had a few tomahawks because of tip dive. The sweet spot between tip dive and too much tail pressure is too narrow. I want a ski that I can trust to drive from a forward position without worrying about tip dive when I drop in a couloir, and deal with the breakable crust that comes along the way. It will be a dedicated touring ski with long days so weight matters. I am Around 150 lbs. Not looking to go in a straight line.

    Hoji - interesting ski, I like what I read about it. On the heavy side.
    Steeple - are they all the BGs are hyped to be?
    PraxisRX?

    What else?
    Vwerkd katanas will not dive in almost any conditions.
    At least i haven't done it in three years, and i skied all sorts of stuff.

    Sent from my Armor_3 using Tapatalk

  14. #39
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    Mar 2009
    Location
    Bellingham
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    134
    daught -- sent you a PM on some BMT 109s
    JimmyCarter:

    I was a MA high school "racer"... Dudes show up for a 200 yard "race" in full gear, getting leg rubdowns in the starting house while half my team was off in the woods getting lit.

    :Priceless

  15. #40
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    Feb 2010
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    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by daught View Post
    I looked at your tip extenders thread and gave them serious consideration.

    Another ski that's interesting is the new bent chetler 120. Very light. Blister complained about their performance on firm inconsistent snow, but overall impressed.
    Interesting mod for sure.

    Big fan of the bent chetler w/ tectons. I mounted at -2 of recommended, which is -4.5 of center. You can drive them or ski them centered. All the forgiveness and agility of the JJ, but can be pushed much harder.

    Iím 165# touring on the 184. Cats PJs in pow.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  16. #41
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    Nov 2011
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    Definately looking to get out of the skinny class. The vectors will stay and share the vipecs with the next ski.

    So I did a bunch of reading on the 120 spoons. Everyone pauses them in soft snow. How do they do in breakable crust? I guess if something floats in soft snow it should float on breakable crust...?

  17. #42
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    May 2017
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
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    318
    their a lot more versatile than you might think. Good in crust, too. If you think about 120mm I can recommend the L120! We recently had a appreciation society in some other thread (here)

  18. #43
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    Jan 2017
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    217
    surprised how no one mentioned G3 skis. Synapse and Empire both have huge front rockers, classic mount point, both are lightweight, touring-oriented

  19. #44
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    Sep 2014
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    speaking of 120mm waist class skis....data point update on the 180 old school solly rocker 2, 122's; coupla runs in good test conditions; moist punchy wind slab, right side up knee deep, some areas of old settled facets with 20cms fresh on top and some hard ice crust. rearward mount threw me backseat, had to really stay forward to feel balanced tip to tail. In the deeper sections could feel the slightest inkling of tips wanting to submarine. Gonna have to go back to a more forward mount, find the sweet spot and add tip extenders for float. Skis felt like good all rounders though; enough mass and stiffness to power through the slab without twiching, no chatter on ice, damp but provided enough rebound for some pop when working short radius turns. Optimistic.
    Master of mediocrity.

  20. #45
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    Jan 2011
    Location
    Winthrop, WA. Methow valley
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    To the OP. If you are interested in 120 class skis we are selling my wife's 176cm BMT 122's with the Volkl/Colltex skins. She had an ankle injury last year that has pretty much taken her out this year and isn't getting any better at this point. We are pretty much clearing out her quiver until we figure out what her ski future looks like. PM if interested. There is also an excellent review of them on Blister

  21. #46
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by daught View Post
    So I did a bunch of reading on the 120 spoons. Everyone pauses them in soft snow. How do they do in breakable crust? I guess if something floats in soft snow it should float on breakable crust...?
    the early rise tips of the lotus 120 are good in breakable crust

    being so wide they are slow edge to edge but pivot fast so not bad in moguls, not bad on hardpack, I gotta ask how many of the other skis mentioned in this thread ski pretty good everywhere?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  22. #47
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    Feb 2015
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    No tip dive touring skis

    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    speaking of 120mm waist class skis....data point update on the 180 old school solly rocker 2, 122's; coupla runs in good test conditions; moist punchy wind slab, right side up knee deep, some areas of old settled facets with 20cms fresh on top and some hard ice crust. rearward mount threw me backseat, had to really stay forward to feel balanced tip to tail. In the deeper sections could feel the slightest inkling of tips wanting to submarine. Gonna have to go back to a more forward mount, find the sweet spot and add tip extenders for float. Skis felt like good all rounders though; enough mass and stiffness to power through the slab without twiching, no chatter on ice, damp but provided enough rebound for some pop when working short radius turns. Optimistic.
    I enjoyed the rocker 2 122s in the 193 length at a really forward mount, something like -3cm from center. Still felt like there was no tail. Super surfy ski and I was impressed with the high float and relatively low feeling of friction from the large shovel. Ski from center and make lateral turns, same as my Hoji derived sticks.

  23. #48
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    Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self Jupiter View Post
    I enjoyed the rocker 2 122s in the 193 length at a really forward mount, something like -3cm from center. Still felt like there was no tail. Super surfy ski and I was impressed with the high float and relatively low feeling of friction from the large shovel. Ski from center and make lateral turns, same as my Hoji derived sticks.
    thanks for the pro tip...i have a pair of 184's as well so maybe I'll try to go longer and more forward if the shorties don't work out.
    Master of mediocrity.

  24. #49
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    Aug 2016
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    No longer Alexandria, VA
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    No tip dive touring skis

    Quote Originally Posted by ACH View Post


    And, this...
    Also tour on the 120 pure, zero tip dive.
    Another Lotus 120 fan here. They just wonít dive and handle variable snow well enough.

  25. #50
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    so a lot of Lotus 120 fanboys in this thread

    so what other ski is just like a Lotus 120 ?

    I read about people who sold their 120's and regreted it

    So I think i'm going to keep both of my pairs

    and mebe try to find another pair
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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