Touring Friends: Soft Shell or Hard Shell Pants?

[hafjell]

I have never understood the OOOH BREATHABLE allure of softshells. People who love that must just have different physiology than me.

For me, if I am perspiring at more than the breathability of a performance hardshell, I AM FUCKING HOT. I don't need better breathability, I NEED VENTS so I cool down and can continue to exert myself and not sweat like a pig. I can't work as hard when I'm hot!

Someone tell me where I am wrong?

I sympathize with both sides. I can’t relax on longer tours in soft shells unless the forecast is bomber high pressure. I’m always worried about rain or really wet snow. But in stable weather and shorter tours, especially in spring, soft shells are very comfortable. Ymmv.

[PNWbrit]

reduced striding resistance.

What?

[XXX-er]

I have never understood the OOOH BREATHABLE allure of softshells. People who love that must just have different physiology than me.

For me, if I am perspiring at more than the breathability of a performance hardshell, I AM FUCKING HOT. I don't need better breathability, I NEED VENTS so I cool down and can continue to exert myself and not sweat like a pig. I can't work as hard when I'm hot!

Someone tell me where I am wrong?

just kidding but I always wanted to use that clip

in any case if you think Gortex is better

[mall walker]

I have never understood the OOOH BREATHABLE allure of softshells. People who love that must just have different physiology than me.

For me, if I am perspiring at more than the breathability of a performance hardshell, I AM FUCKING HOT. I don't need better breathability, I NEED VENTS so I cool down and can continue to exert myself and not sweat like a pig. I can't work as hard when I'm hot!

Someone tell me where I am wrong?

I think vents are a must-have too, but even with vents a hardshell is usually just way too schweddy balls hot for me personally

(But, my legs run super duper hot all the time, and I virtually never need the extra protection hardshells offer here in Utah)

[XXX-er]

I personaly don't need to use longjohns with soft shells unless its colder than -10C but it must be a YMMV thing

[altacoup]

I have never understood the OOOH BREATHABLE allure of softshells. People who love that must just have different physiology than me.

For me, if I am perspiring at more than the breathability of a performance hardshell, I AM FUCKING HOT. I don't need better breathability, I NEED VENTS so I cool down and can continue to exert myself and not sweat like a pig. I can't work as hard when I'm hot!

Someone tell me where I am wrong?

Probably why so many here are recommending the OR trailbreakers. Softshell and good vents. Only disadvantage would be in heavy precipitation. And I just don’t tour in high PI events.


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[Lindahl]

I have never understood the OOOH BREATHABLE allure of softshells. People who love that must just have different physiology than me.

For me, if I am perspiring at more than the breathability of a performance hardshell, I AM FUCKING HOT. I don't need better breathability, I NEED VENTS so I cool down and can continue to exert myself and not sweat like a pig. I can't work as hard when I'm hot!

Someone tell me where I am wrong?

Have you tried them? They prevent me from getting too hot in the first place. Way higher comfort level and broader temperature range for me. I very rarely wear the top till I get near treeline though.

[Fritz]

I have never understood the OOOH BREATHABLE allure of softshells. People who love that must just have different physiology than me.

For me, if I am perspiring at more than the breathability of a performance hardshell, I AM FUCKING HOT. I don't need better breathability, I NEED VENTS so I cool down and can continue to exert myself and not sweat like a pig. I can't work as hard when I'm hot!

Someone tell me where I am wrong?

Not wrong. I only tour in arc’teryx goretex. In Colorado. Light, durable, comfortable, and they have vents to dump heat. My legs aren’t sweaty anyway. I guess the noise or whatever doesn’t bother me.

[SB]

I sweat a lot, this year I tried a military set of soft shells. They have no lining and plenty of venting. I can take the top off and roll it up compact. Best part is the tops and bottoms cost a total of $60 shipped.

[Ocean]

I got a custom outdoor gear supplier to make me a pair of short from a three layer hard shell fabric. They have long side zips so I can put them on over ski boots. I often carry them when I'm wearing Schoeller soft shell pants.

If I carried hard shell pants in my pack, I would want them to have long zips, articulated knees and reinforced ankles. Pants like that are quite heavy, so I prefer lightweight over shorts.

[3PinGrin]

I have never understood the OOOH BREATHABLE allure of softshells. People who love that must just have different physiology than me.

For me, if I am perspiring at more than the breathability of a performance hardshell, I AM FUCKING HOT. I don't need better breathability, I NEED VENTS so I cool down and can continue to exert myself and not sweat like a pig. I can't work as hard when I'm hot!

Someone tell me where I am wrong?

You're wrong, ha. At least with Schoeller with no water repellency built in, like the Mammut Champ. There is no need for vents. I run hotter than anyone I have spent time with in the backcountry over several decades and I even wear them for high altitude summer adventures as my only pants. They cover a remarkable range of conditions. That being said, I would roast in many of the hybrid soft shells out there. Part of the problem with these types of discussions is due to the various definitions of a softshell.

The Champs are a very light breathable material. Unlike some of the thicker softshell fabrics out there. They are like light wool on steroids. More breathable and much quicker drying.

[bodywhomper]

I sweat like a pig, but have only ski toured in CA and UT. I have been touring (and resort skiing) in soft shell or soft shell/hard shell hybrid pants for about 15 years. It’s been working great. Sometimes I still overheat, even with vents open on the hybrid pants (Patagonia). I have some very lightweight schoeller pants that I tour in during warm spring and summer. If I do a very long day tour or multi-day tour, I’ll bring some hard shell pants in my pack, unless I am very confident about the forecast. I have worn the soft shell stuff in snain, rain, and very wet deep snow, and I get wet.

Prior, I wore gtx, obviously older versions, and would overheat often, even when venting a lot with full zip legs. I don’t like fully unzipping pant legs when touring.

Beacon pocket, I know this has been discussed on this forum plenty, but I haven’t noticed discussion since the avi incident on the east side this season. https://www.esavalanche.org/content/...che-mt-baldwin

It’s just one person’s experience but seems relevant to that discussion:
“The other person had his beacon in his pant pocket, which ended up bruising his leg and getting cracked, and then showing error message when checked later in the day. His pant pocket also got a rip in it, but the beacon was not ripped out. He said he will never again put his beacon in a pant pocket again, and will always have it strapped to his chest in the future.”

[FringeLife]

After years and years of only using hardshell pants I finally picked up a pair of Arcteryx Gamma MX pants. No fancy euro/canuck colors, just grey and black I think.

Awesome pants! I like that they make them in Medium/Longs.

I've used them about 80 days in the backcountry from 0F to above freezing (below 0F I revert back to hardshells partially as a safety matter). On bluebird days to windy to 1"+ storm skiing days. They hold up well to constant snowfall and bushwhacking in snow covered trees. One caveat is I ski in a cold snow environment. As the temperature drops towards 0F I add a second windproof base layer (I call space pants). As the temps approach freezing I can go to boxers only underneath. I'm a skinny guy (6'2" 155lbs) so if I'm not moving I get cold.

The gaiters/cuffs seem burly and work well with the Atomic Hawk 130 boots. No knicks so far. They fully cover the buckles in walk mode.

The difference in mobility is pronounced in my opinion especially on technical skintracks and while booting/climbing.

I wish that I had seen the light a decade or so ago.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Softshell with vents. No membrane. Resort and Backcountry. Anybody want to buy some Arc'teryx Beta AR pants? Medium, black. Not much use. Nearly full side zip.

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[XXX-er]

any body use wool?

I got a buddy who uses heavy weight Ibex wool pants, which would be a soft shell

[hutash]

It all depends on conditions and where I am touring. Spring tours in good weather in the California, soft shell. Wet storms in Maritime snow pack, hard shell. Long hut to hut trips, hard shell since I will only have on air of pants. Cold, dry conditions, i.e. WY or UT, most likely soft shell, but I have been in some nasty wet storms in those places as well, so hard shell on occasion. Pretty much the same goes for hard vs soft shell jackets.

I don't sweat much and rarely have over heating issues, so even if I have vents I rarely need to use them, but that's just me.

[SB]

I have also a collection of wool tops and bottoms that I wear in appropriate conditions. Nearly all are surplus and are made to be durable.

It is not light and can get heavy if soaked but works well for me under a variety of condtions. I also carry extra gloves and socks as a norm. I also like to carry shamwow towels, being able to dry off helps a lot on a long hard tour.

[hafjell]

IBeacon pocket, I know this has been discussed on this forum plenty, but I haven’t noticed discussion since the avi incident on the east side this season. https://www.esavalanche.org/content/...che-mt-baldwin

It’s just one person’s experience but seems relevant to that discussion:
“The other person had his beacon in his pant pocket, which ended up bruising his leg and getting cracked, and then showing error message when checked later in the day. His pant pocket also got a rip in it, but the beacon was not ripped out. He said he will never again put his beacon in a pant pocket again, and will always have it strapped to his chest in the future.”

Thanks for posting this. Very good to read real world experience.
My question stems from, “Stuff strapped to the outside of his backpack, such as his ice ax, were ripped off. This reinforced how important it is to keep important things like shovel and other rescue gear tucked safely inside.”
Again, is every member of the chest carry crew touring with their beacon behind a non-rippable (this exists, right?), zipped shell? Also, the mention of bruised leg makes me wonder if that isn’t preferable to a broken rib or cracked sternum. Not trying to argue; just curious.

[summit]

The beacon was hit and damaged and caused a bruise. OK that could happen no matter where you carry. Pocket damaged but it didn't fall out (and backup lanyard didn't come into play).

Or how about when people have an unzipped jacked or have stripped all layers with chest carry?

I'm still not aware of pants carry failing in a survivable avalanche where chest carry would have made the diff. I'll keep my beacon in my waist pocket.

But I will have to give softshell another chance!

[markcjr]

Not to derail too much but I read an article where a guide in Chamonix said that if you were going to put the beacon in your pocket you should use a leather belt verse say an arcade belt -so I switched to a leather belt when I tour.

The idea being that it won't rip the pants off you. And it was mentioned that it should be a heavy duty leather belt.

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[summit]

You mean if you use a belt so that if it snags, the belt rips before pulling your pants?

(Assuming this is like the problem with snagging a beacon harness when touring without anything but a baselayer)

[markcjr]

I didn't read too deeply into it but I think they were just trying to convey that a leather belt is stronger, then say a elastic belt , so therefore less of a chance of your pants ripping off in an avalanche.

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