College Admissions Scandal

[Timberridge]

The "fake it till you make it" attitude.

The one response that amuses me when I suggest this is when a parent says "how will I explain this to him?" "He's going to be really upset."

I dunno, give him a Hershey bar and a new teddy bear then say "hey, btw..."

[Cono Este]

Oh jezuz, this could be a whole thread. Like college sports are some high minded affair that improves young lives. Sorry, I just see money horribly spent, massive profits off of slave labor, a celebration of jock culture and the binge drinking culture that fuels the bizarre adoring culture that worships it. (You do know that there are thousands of kids who pick schools just for that drunken party culture?) And, honestly, the A team kids don't really work hard at all. Please don't call that work. It's playing games, and showing off for the scouts.

That not fair Benny. Genuine athletes spend hours everyday training while non athletes are at home playing xbox these days.

Not sure what to say to someone who cannot understand the dedication it takes to make a college team.

Surprised to see it on a sports forum.


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[snoqpass]

Very few people play these sports at a competitive level after college, it’s a dead end

[teledad]

Maybe this is how it works for sports like tennis, squash, sailing, crew.... I can tell you firsthand that this is not the recruiting process for baseball, hockey, lacrosse and football. Those coaches want athletes that can impact their program first and handle the academics second.

Also Ivy League is something of a special case (Div 1 but no scholarships). Handling of athletes at places like USC and Stanford is very different.

[4matic]

That not fair Benny. Genuine athletes spend hours everyday training while non athletes are at home playing xbox these days.

Benny never won anything. Kiddie league right fielder. A spectator


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[KyleLanTheman]

Very few people play these sports at a competitive level after college, it’s a dead end

Wouldn't say dead end - if you do your work you'll make great connections not available to others who are not participating in collegiate team sports.

[XXX-er]

I don't believe that was the point. AD's point is that many sports have smart athletes. Also, the mental and physical discipline needed to compete can serve you well in the real world. Good or bad athletics has definitely opened doors for me and been an anchor for my life.

I have absolutely no doubt there are smart athletes of both sexes but my point would be that now days schools need to at least appear to be spending MORE of their athletic budget on the women to counteract the huge budgets they already spend on the Mens programs, kind of an equal opportunity thing

So I have heard that the absence of a Y chromosome might be an important factor in getting to play a uni sport ?

[MontuckyFried]

This says it all. Lori Loughlin's Instagram "model"/YouTube star daughter, Oliva Jade:
"I don't really care about school."

[4matic]

I have absolutely no doubt there are smart athletes of both sexes but my point would be that now days schools need to at least appear to be spending MORE of their athletic budget on the women to counteract the huge budgets they already spend on the Mens programs, kind of an equal opportunity thing

So I have heard that the absence of a Y chromosome might be an important factor in getting to play a uni sport ?

Not really. They just cut more sports. It’s equal sports not equal money.

[Benny Profane]

That not fair Benny. Genuine athletes spend hours everyday training while non athletes are at home playing xbox these days.

And neither will be having success after school unless their parents and / or family connections connect them well. I don't see how one justifies the other. Academia should be about academics, not partying around the minor league players of the NFL and NBA.

I will agree that team sports teach people how to deal with others well, I guess. But it also promotes a really ridiculous bullying culture (within the sport first, and then without) that is horrible. We don't need it.

[The AD]

kind of an equal opportunity thing

It's not kind of an equal opportunity thing--it is as equal opportunity thing. It's a direct result of Title IX:

No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

The NCAA has interpreted this to mean that universities need to maintain parity in the number of male and female athletes. Since football teams are huge this typically means more women's sports and fewer men's.

[RShea]

I read this and was somewhat amused for a couple of reasons:

1. There were a couple of cases where they apparently forgot to tell the kids that they were an "athlete". One of the coaches involved was Georgetown's tennis coach. I went to Georgetown and when I got in, the admittance letter, it specifically referenced that they were impressed with my accomplishments in tennis. i had in no way indicated that I was interested in playing tennis.

2. Who the fuck pays $500,000 to get their kids into USC? Have some standards. And heck, if you have that much to spend, you can generally just openly bribe your way into a school by contributing a large amount to the school as a tax free donation to build a dorm or something. I've been at places where there are totally different tours for wooing these potential donors. I seriously doubt they reject the students after that.

What contractor do you know that can build a dorm for $500K?? Those funds may get you the bricks, a CA approved earthquake proof foundation and a sign out front for the dorm if you are lucky, but no dorm is going to cost $500K to build unless it is for 4 to 10 students with 2 to a room old school style...

[MarcusBrody]

Maybe this is how it works for sports like tennis, squash, sailing, crew.... I can tell you firsthand that this is not the recruiting process for baseball, hockey, lacrosse and football. Those coaches want athletes that can impact their program first and handle the academics second.

The coach I mentioned particularly was a football coach at Harvard. As was mentioned the ivy league is a bit different and the numbers of slots available at each academic level are adjusted for schools across the league to try to keep competitive balance. Obviously coaches want difference makers but at the Ivy league schools they're a bit more constrained.

[MarcusBrody]

What contractor do you know that can build a dorm for $500K?? Those funds may get you the bricks, a CA approved earthquake proof foundation and a sign out front for the dorm if you are lucky, but no dorm is going to cost $500K to build unless it is for 4 to 10 students with 2 to a room old school style...

Ok I didn't mean to imply you can get a whole dorm for 500,000, but donations that size are certainly appreciated. We just built a 20 million dollar dining hall with only one donation above that I think.

[PNWbrit]

Very few people play these sports at a competitive level after college, it’s a dead end

The rest of the world mostly manages fine without the US college sports business model.

[JimmyCarter]

The coach I mentioned particularly was a football coach at Harvard. As was mentioned the ivy league is a bit different and the numbers of slots available at each academic level are adjusted for schools across the league to try to keep competitive balance. Obviously coaches want difference makers but at the Ivy league schools they're a bit more constrained.

My high school class had 5 kids go to Harvard; the valedictorian and 4 football players. Our coaches had a solid relationship as I understand it. By and large they mostly fell into the "smart enough to get through Harvard but wouldn't have made it in otherwise" category. As football players, I think only 1 of them ended up on the team after freshman year.

[RShea]

Ok I didn't mean to imply you can get a whole dorm for 500,000, but donations that size are certainly appreciated. We just built a 20 million dollar dining hall with only one donation above that I think.

The sign for that 20 million hall with $500K -Jones-Smith-Miller-Jenkins-Ward-etc. would have to be abbreviated to just their 40 first initials then... Or just sell the naming rights separately...

[Cono Este]

And neither will be having success after school unless their parents and / or family connections connect them well. I don't see how one justifies the other. Academia should be about academics, not partying around the minor league players of the NFL and NBA.

I will agree that team sports teach people how to deal with others well, I guess. But it also promotes a really ridiculous bullying culture (within the sport first, and then without) that is horrible. We don't need it.

Big difference between d1 basket ball players just looking to enter the draft and swimmers, gymnasts, or other sports where people actually learn to work towards something that does not have a dollar sign attached.

Believe it or not, Swimming 10-15k a day, 6 days a week, 11 months a yr, teaches you a few things about life.


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[The AD]

Very few people play these sports at a competitive level after college, it’s a dead end

Very few people attend academic classes after college, either, yet most people wouldn't consider getting a college degree a dead end.

[nyskirat]

And neither will be having success after school unless their parents and / or family connections connect them well. I don't see how one justifies the other. Academia should be about academics, not partying around the minor league players of the NFL and NBA.

I will agree that team sports teach people how to deal with others well, I guess. But it also promotes a really ridiculous bullying culture (within the sport first, and then without) that is horrible. We don't need it.

It teaches a lot more than just how to deal with others.

It teaches time management, the benefits of dedication, perseverance, how to overcome losing, hardships, work-life balance, etc.

Outside of the one-and-done rule in CBB and the 2 year rule in the CFB, most athletes tend to finish their education. I think the statistic is that less than 2% of all NCAA athletes go on to professional teams/levels. A recent study by the NCAA shows that 88% of D1, 73% of DII, and 86% of DIII athletes earn their degrees within 6 years of entering college.

Don't forget that for some of these students sports provide a pathway to college and a reason to aim higher than just high school. They can get scholarships, move out of their rural hometown, make connections that will give them a pathway to post-education careers, etc.

[smartyiak]

This says it all. Lori Loughlin's Instagram "model"/YouTube star daughter, Oliva Jade:
"I don't really care about school."

Maybe Olivia is still "paying her way" into USC????

https://www.tmz.com/2019/03/13/lori-...s-rick-caruso/

Lori Loughlin's Daughter Olivia Leaves Yacht of USC's Board of Trustees Chairman

As Lori Loughlin traveled from Vancouver to L.A. Tuesday night to surrender to federal authorities in the college bribery scandal -- which got her daughter, Olivia Jade, into USC -- Olivia spent the night on the yacht of the Chairman of USC's Board of Trustees ... but she's off the boat now, TMZ has learned.

We've learned 19-year-old Olivia was on Rick Caruso's yacht in the Bahamas. Caruso's daughter, Gianna, Olivia and several other friends were spending spring break in the area.

Gianna and Olivia have been friends for quite some time, occasionally posting photos of them together on social media.

Caruso, a billionaire who has major real estate holdings including The Grove in L.A., tells TMZ, "My daughter and a group of students left for spring break prior to the government's announcement yesterday. Once we became aware of the investigation, the young woman decided it would be in her best interests to return home." Olivia is off the yacht.

Caruso was elected Chairman of USC's Board of Trustees last year. We're told the Board will NOT decide the fate of Olivia and other students involved in the case. That decision is left squarely in the hands of the University's President.

By the way, Caruso came out strong Tuesday in the wake of the indictments, saying, "The charges filed today against employees of USC are disturbing and the alleged activity is absolutely wrong. I am saddened that these people would abuse their positions of trust and, as the government has alleged, victimize USC in the process. There is no option other than zero tolerance for this type of behavior. As a result, USC has fired the alleged wrongdoers."

[EWG]

Oh jezuz, this could be a whole thread. Like college sports are some high minded affair that improves young lives. Sorry, I just see money horribly spent, massive profits off of slave labor, a celebration of jock culture and the binge drinking culture that fuels the bizarre adoring culture that worships it. (You do know that there are thousands of kids who pick schools just for that drunken party culture?) And, honestly, the A team kids don't really work hard at all. Please don't call that work. It's playing games, and showing off for the scouts.

Benny, you are looking at men's basketball and football, making a gross generalization that I have found to be mostly untrue for the majority of colleges out there, and applying it all college sports across both genders.

For the vast, vast majority of college athletes, it's a labor of love that they will work harder at then most of the rest work at anything in their lives. That discipline and work ethic will allow them to succeed in ways outside of sport.

About half my family played sports in college. Those that did have had, for the most part, very happy, highly successful lives, whether they chose more traditional work paths or non traditional paths. Sports prepared them for that for sure.

My life would not be anything close to what it is now without competitive sport.

[RShea]

The new SAT question:
https://scontent.fagc3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...f5&oe=5D169966

[teledad]

Back in the 90s Bill Gates got his name on a Stanford building for a $6M donation. Prices have gone up a bit since then. (At the time they were strapped for cash due to the 89 quake as well as various federal investigations.)

I know a kid who applied to Stanford and Cal Poly SLO (public technical school for those not in CA, good school but not exactly elite). Dad's a VC billionaire, mom and dad are both Stanford grads and made some nice donations over the years, and the kid got into Stanford but not Cal Poly.

[TWINS]

Hallmark just fired Lori Loughlin.
Seems like a kneejerk reaction to me.
Should have at least let her go to court first.