Black Crows: Fad or Fab?

[CascadeLuke]

That mindbender could turn out to be a great ski. Using company analogies; K2 = Reebok to me. Haven’t had either in 15-20 years.
Also I’m not seeing the premium price attached to Black Crows like it’s being implied here. I’ve bought 2 pairs of ‘19 Corvus for under $600 (on sale) think msrp was $750. See mindbenders for $700 and $750 for 108s.

[McDee]

They've been a thing over this side of the pond for ~10 years. Not sure that counts as a fad? When's the cut-off date? First Corvus was pretty special for the time.

[CascadeLuke]

I mean like "latest and greatest...the ski to be seen with", or gapers love them... until they blow up, or lose their spring after 50 days, or skiers realize that they are shit...

I’m not sure if this will move your needle but I put 20 days on a pair and have been singing praise. Then when I saw next years topsheet for the Corvus I grabbed another pair of this year’s black, for backup. Never done that before.

[EWG]

That mindbender could turn out to be a great ski. Using company analogies; K2 = Reebok to me. Haven’t had either in 15-20 years.
Also I’m not seeing the premium price attached to Black Crows like it’s being implied here. I’ve bought 2 pairs of ‘19 Corvus for under $600 (on sale) think msrp was $750. See mindbenders for $700 and $750 for 108s.

This is a good point. That occurred to me too - they sure aren't DPS when it comes to pricing. In that regard, they ARE kinda like Santa Cruz back in the day...

You know what else? I had a K2 full suspension once upon a time when they sponsored my team. Reebok is a pretty funny analogy for that bike. Their new skis are above that though, IMO. Or at least they are above that in my mind, since I haven't skied them yet.

[hercule33]

For what it’s worth, the original DPS business model is not sustainable for the long term. As more and more people ski powder (thank you fat skis) and climate change makes powder more rare and more unpredictable, the number of people who are willing to spend $1200 for a set of powder skis shrinks. DPS has adjusted by offering their Tour1 layup specifically targeting backcountry skiers as well offering all mountain and carving skis. The latter is particularly shocking for a company that made their name off powder skis.

I see Black Crows being in a better position since they did not start out as a niche player. Their novelty, coolness, hipster factor whatever you want to call it will decline but I don’t see them going anywhere. Probably Volkl is a good analogy. Super popular 10 to 15 years ago (remember the Gotoma’s), less cool now but still a player.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> Probably Volkl is a good analogy. Super popular 10 to 15 years ago (remember the Gotoma’s), less cool now but still a player.

Remember the Snow Rangers? Now *that* was a great pair of skis...

[schindlerpiste]

Now matter how good, I not sure that comparing Black Crows to Volkl is a good analogy. Volkl has been around, and has been making great skis since at least the sixties. I think my first pair of serious skis was Volkl Zebras. They have been around the W.C. circuit since at least then. I would imagine that a good comparison would be ON3P, MOMENT, or even PM GEAR.
5-7 ago, when I had Wasatch Powder Skis, Black Crows contacted me and wanted me to sort of introduce their brand to the mountain west. I know they they have been rad in Cham for a while, but last year was the first time that I really noticed them around here.

[hercule33]

Now matter how good, I not sure that comparing Black Crows to Volkl is a good analogy. Volkl has been around, and has been making great skis since at least the sixties. I think my first pair of serious skis was Volkl Zebras. They have been around the W.C. circuit since at least then. I would imagine that a good comparison would be ON3P, MOMENT, or even PM GEAR.
5-7 ago, when I had Wasatch Powder Skis, Black Crows contacted me and wanted me to sort of introduce their brand to the mountain west. I know they they have been rad in Cham for a while, but last year was the first time that I really noticed them around here.

The Volkl comparison was more about coolness factor and building quality skis rather than history or time in business. FWIW, I would argue that Black Crows as a company is closer to Volkl than PM Gear or ON3P in the sense that they have become popular on two continents. I don’t see that many ON3Ps, Moments, PM Gear in Europe either on the hill or in stores. Hell, I see far more Bogner skis for sale in Europe than ON3Ps, Moments and PM Gear (RIP) combined.

[alpinevibes]

I mean like "latest and greatest...the ski to be seen with", ....are they legit...... until they blow up, or lose their spring after 50 days, or skiers realize that they are shit...

Quality is high (Elan, Movement, Blizzard? factories) and longevity is pretty well proven by many who have skied them for years and years. My friend crew here has ~100 day a piece on their main Black Crows (six of us on the Atris) and they're still ripping.

As McDee stated - 10yr brand history in Europe and a good following there. They started a slow roll-out in North America a few years ago and started to purposely grow their retail base in the US only in the last few years. Yes, very much a fad and the brand has been positioned that way - they're selling the dream of ski culture, not the sport/act of skiing alone. I think they've grown and gained a following also by creating innovative skis and thinking and acting differently. DPS has done that too, but with a Kastle price tag and the heavy implication that their product is really worth that much more. Black Crows are standard market MSRP.

[Ted Striker]

Quality is high (Elan, Movement, Blizzard? factories) and longevity is pretty well proven by many who have skied them for years and years.

I think most of their skis are made at the Atomic factory in Altenmarkt Austria, with some extra production form the Elan factory in Slovenia. I haven't heard about a Movement connection, but if that's true their skis are nicer than Elan's, so it's safe to say that Black Crows quality is good.

[gwat]

I’ve never skied Black Crows but the fact that Christina Lutsenberger skis them makes me think they must be legit.
I don’t think they can be compared to DPS clownshoe noodle garbage.

[blur]

This is the 6th season on the Corvus, red ones first set, pink second set, at least 100 days on each. Still pop in them. Never paid more than $500 for them.

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[hercule33]

Funny to see all the DPS 112rp hate here. I don’t like the ski because it allowed intermediates to ski powder contributing to the mountains getting tracked out quickly. That being said I know a few hardcore backcountry skiers who ski them because they are good match for softer boots like the TLT5/6/7. Those boots are not the best for driving 190 cm Flex 3 DPS Lotus 120s or other big stiff skis.

[buttahflake]

I skied the Corvus and Daemon, both of which were totally meh.
The K2 Mindbender 90 Ti looks like a good solid shape, way more modern looking than the Pinnacle. But they ski worse than the Pinnacle. Moving production to China has ruined that once great company.

[CaliBrit]

I’m sure they’re fine. Do make the distinction that they don’t make their skis. So they only get semi credit. They are not a boutique manufacturer. But a boutique design house and brand. Their brand just rings of SF Bay Area tech worker “I’m edgy and I ski skis other people haven’t heard of”.

[phatty]

Their brand just rings of SF Bay Area tech worker “I’m edgy and I ski skis other people haven’t heard of”.

That's the exact vibe with them in Seattle. Spotting them everywhere with local Powder Techs.

[TahoeJ]

I’m sure they’re fine. Do make the distinction that they don’t make their skis. So they only get semi credit. They are not a boutique manufacturer. But a boutique design house and brand. Their brand just rings of SF Bay Area tech worker “I’m edgy and I ski skis other people haven’t heard of”.

I don’t actually see many of them around Tahoe... I think the brand your describing is Praxis.

[kathleenturneroverdrive]

I skied the Corvus and Daemon, both of which were totally meh.
The K2 Mindbender 90 Ti looks like a good solid shape, way more modern looking than the Pinnacle. But they ski worse than the Pinnacle. Moving production to China has ruined that once great company.

LOL they moved almost TWENTY years ago. Anything wrong with the brand has nothing to do with China.

[babybear]

I feel like their team is all the older sponsored skier guys/ turned guides
which is respectable for sure
saw the skis all over chamonix and I would say I see them frequently round these parts
black crows around the mtns in europe also have a much sweeter tweet

[jorion]

I don’t actually see many of them around Tahoe... I think the brand your describing is Praxis.

Tech workers? “Edgy?” With boutique skis? Haha. Definitely not my perception.

It’s very rare that I see black crows skis in Tahoe. I’d say it’s moment>on3p/praxis>black crows. I see a ton in Jackson when I go there though. Lots in Japan, too.

[hercule33]

I don’t actually see many of them around Tahoe... I think the brand your describing is Praxis.

Hence the “hipster” label. Once they get as popular as the banana DPS skis or Rossi Soul 7 then they will have “jumped the shark.” Just for the record, most (not all) of the skiers I have seen ski Praxis or Moments seem like locals not Bay Area tech folks and as a former Bay Area tech worker I would like to think I can identify them. Certainly I spot a hell of a lot more of them in SF over the last five years.

[TahoeJ]

Funny to see all the DPS 112rp hate here. I don’t like the ski because it allowed intermediates to ski powder contributing to the mountains getting tracked out quickly. That being said I know a few hardcore backcountry skiers who ski them because they are good match for softer boots like the TLT5/6/7. Those boots are not the best for driving 190 cm Flex 3 DPS Lotus 120s or other big stiff skis.

I hate the DPS 112's because I skied them and hated them because they want to turn all the time and would fold up in heavier Tahoe powder if you tried to push them. I have friends who like them a lot - good for them! Different strokes for different folks. There are plenty of advanced skiers who like those skis too. There were also plenty of skis before those that "opened up the powder" so to speak to intermediate skiers. The Rossi S7 is probably the best example. I hated those too! But again, only because I skied them and hated them. You're not entirely wrong, but I also think you're reading a little too deeply into it.

[TahoeJ]

Hence the “hipster” label. Once they get as popular as the banana DPS skis or Rossi Soul 7 then they will have “jumped the shark.”

No way are Black Crows considered cool or hip in the same way. Fashionable or trendy, sure, but not cool. Moments are cool. ON3P's are cool. Praxis are cool. 4FRNT's were cool, a bit less now. I've had skis from those brands prior. The last thing in hell I thought when I got some Black Crows was that I got some cool hip indie skis... far from it. But I really liked them, so at the end of the day that's all that matters.

[PNW_Skier206]

No way are Black Crows considered cool or hip in the same way. Fashionable or trendy, sure, but not cool. Moments are cool. ON3P's are cool. Praxis are cool. 4FRNT's were cool, a bit less now. I've had skis from those brands prior. The last thing in hell I thought when I got some Black Crows was that I got some cool hip indie skis... far from it. But I really liked them, so at the end of the day that's all that matters.

Totally agree with you here. I don’t own a pair but that’s the vibe I get.


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[I've seen black diamonds!]

Black Crows with Shifts seem to a be popular accessory with the fashion conscious skier around here.