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Thread: Jones Pass Fatality
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03-08-2019, 04:27 PM #26Skiing powder worldwide
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03-08-2019, 04:28 PM #27
Because, money.
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03-08-2019, 04:30 PM #28
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03-08-2019, 04:55 PM #29
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03-08-2019, 05:19 PM #30
Powder Addiction posted the following on FB today:
Powder Addiction Snowcats are greatly saddened to confirm that a employee, Hans Berg, was fatally injured in an avalanche on Jones Pass. The Powder Addiction group was skiing in accordance with standard operation procedures in a well known and frequently skied area. Reports confirm that he was caught in a large avalanche that was set off by two recreational - non guided skiers, that skied out and onto a loaded slope far above the Powder Addiction group. Rescue was conducted in a swift manner, medical aid was rendered and our employee was transported to awaiting EMS for transport to the Hospital. The Powder Addiction family is distraught by Hans's passing. Our thoughts and prayers are with Hans's family and friends during this heartbreaking time.
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03-08-2019, 05:47 PM #31
Horrific - vibes to the fallen and all who knew him. +++++++
sproing!
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03-08-2019, 05:49 PM #32
If the statements are accurate, that is brutal. A close friend of my wife’s died 11 years ago when something similar happened (in Whitefish)—the ripple effects on his family and close friends went on for years. Condolences to all involved.
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03-08-2019, 05:58 PM #33
We were discussing among rescuers yesterday how terrifying it was with things sliding where they "never" do and the idea of our impaired ability to determine what is truly a safe zone when you have 50/100 year slide events carving new paths.
RIP to the photog.
That's an unfunny joke in an unfunny thread.Originally Posted by blurred
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03-08-2019, 06:05 PM #34
Can somebody please tell me the source of Hans acting it the capacity of a photographer. Thank you
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03-08-2019, 06:38 PM #35
Powder Addiction said "The Powder Addiction group was skiing in accordance with standard operation procedures in a well known and frequently skied area."
I think what I was trying to say was standard operation procedure doesn't work well in extremely non-standard conditions, and familiarity breeds contempt.Originally Posted by blurred
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03-08-2019, 06:42 PM #36Registered User
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Here is the exact same spot from 2014
https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/o...p?obs_id=21515
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03-08-2019, 07:22 PM #37
To those questioning, "why were they operating yesterday?"
Would you be asking that if the victim had been a ski patroller instead of a backcountry guide?
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03-08-2019, 07:41 PM #38Registered User
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03-08-2019, 07:48 PM #39
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03-08-2019, 07:51 PM #40
Said a different way, assuming you are asking an honest question and not going down on your E cock, possible answers could be:
a. the decision to operate way made prior to the forecast and knowledge of the rampant avalanche activity in the general area was known
b. operator believed they could avoid the hazard/avalanche terrain
c. a pile of other hypothetical answers that provide zero justification of operating in retrospect
I do think it is the most salient question at hand. With the data I had available to me at 0530 yesterday, I decided to stay out of the backcountry simply because I believed that we were in the middle of an historic avalanche cycle and I did not feel confident that I could identify what was on was not avalanche terrain based on both the distance slides had been traveling and reports of slides on exceptionally low angled slopes.
I don't bring this up to tell you how good it feels to be working over my E cock, simply to make the fairly obvious point that if we are to use these tragedies as case studies, which I think we should, lets get down to brass tacks and identify decision making that we don't agree with and why instead of restating the obvious.
I have come around recently to the idea that just because an decision may appear basic and obvious, it is anything but simple and easy to execute. I have an idea that many of you are pretty competent at tuning out the noise and performing objective analysis. That is awesome. But please don't let that come of as smug.
It would be nice to think that we, as backcountry skiers, are all in this together. Lets try to work on a culture where we can simultaneously be critical and supportive for the singular purpose of staying safe.
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03-08-2019, 07:51 PM #41Registered User
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Jones Pass Fatality
One is out presumably for purposes of mitigation. The other has clients to keep safe. Stupid comparison.
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03-08-2019, 07:54 PM #42
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03-08-2019, 07:58 PM #43Registered User
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03-08-2019, 08:01 PM #44
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03-08-2019, 08:02 PM #45Registered User
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Irrelevant.
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03-08-2019, 08:04 PM #46
I think it's a difference in the terrain they're operating in. In bounds has been patrolled and blasted heavily. It doesn't have the chance to build up to create the level of slides happening right now. Some backcountry operations might do mitigation but I doubt it's on the same level as a resort. Either way I'm not passing judgement against the operators but I don't think its fare to compare the two.
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03-08-2019, 08:06 PM #47The news stated he was a photog attached to a client group
I'm not sure that it is tremendously relevant but given that A Basin elected not to open yesterday due to avalanche hazard I'd say there are certainly parallels between patrol/guides and ski areas/guides operations.
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03-08-2019, 08:09 PM #48
On a level 5 day, when cars are being buried on the interstate and mature trees are being knocked down there is no such thing as a safe zone
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03-08-2019, 08:11 PM #49Registered User
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Jones Pass Fatality
Im not saying being a photog is the issue. The issue is they are out for the purpose of escorting clients around, not doing avy mitigation. The issue people have is why would anyone take clients out w the current snowpack issues into what was an exposed situation. It would seem that they should have taken the terrain above them into account as well as the slope they were on. The issue is the guiding clients part if that wasn't clear
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03-08-2019, 08:12 PM #50
Jones Pass Fatality
In his blog Al said that decision was based on the threat from the professor and widow maker.
“We do have teams working on the mountain. The Ski Patrollers are running their avalanche routes. The Lift Crew is digging out the chairlifts and getting them going. Snow plows and snowcats are trying to keep travel lanes open.“
Edit: I’m not saying there aren’t parallels either. Both are dangerous but being out of bounds operating on an extreme day with the activity we’re seeing is in my opinion another level.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR ForumsLast edited by ffmedic84; 03-08-2019 at 08:45 PM.
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