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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Sounds like he was the photographer, setting up down lower (underneath?) than the guides and clients were going to drop in.
    i get that, but why were they even out?

  2. #27
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    Because, money.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If you have any solid facts, please share. If you only have third hand info from Facebook, please state as such. There is a lot of conflicting information floating about right now. Let's not make a bad deal worse stating you know more than you do. Thanks
    It seems this needs quoting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    i get that, but why were they even out?
    Seems this needs repeating too.
    Fighting leads to killing, and killing gets to warring. And that was damn near the death of us all.

  5. #30
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    Jan 2015
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    Call-A-Rad-Bro
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    Powder Addiction posted the following on FB today:

    Powder Addiction Snowcats are greatly saddened to confirm that a employee, Hans Berg, was fatally injured in an avalanche on Jones Pass. The Powder Addiction group was skiing in accordance with standard operation procedures in a well known and frequently skied area. Reports confirm that he was caught in a large avalanche that was set off by two recreational - non guided skiers, that skied out and onto a loaded slope far above the Powder Addiction group. Rescue was conducted in a swift manner, medical aid was rendered and our employee was transported to awaiting EMS for transport to the Hospital. The Powder Addiction family is distraught by Hans's passing. Our thoughts and prayers are with Hans's family and friends during this heartbreaking time.

  6. #31
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    Nov 2009
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    Horrific - vibes to the fallen and all who knew him. +++++++
    sproing!

    FS: 184 4FRNT Raven (2017) with momix skins https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...17-2018-model)

    FS: 187 Praxis GPO with STH14 binders https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...TH-14-bindings

    FS: crampons, lightweight winter down sleeping bag, and stuff https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ost?highlight=

  7. #32
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    Jan 2009
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    If the statements are accurate, that is brutal. A close friend of my wife’s died 11 years ago when something similar happened (in Whitefish)—the ripple effects on his family and close friends went on for years. Condolences to all involved.

  8. #33
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    Oct 2003
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    We were discussing among rescuers yesterday how terrifying it was with things sliding where they "never" do and the idea of our impaired ability to determine what is truly a safe zone when you have 50/100 year slide events carving new paths.

    RIP to the photog.

    Quote Originally Posted by SterlingSpikeDancer View Post
    If true, ^^^this is some shit. Can/will charges be filed?
    That's an unfunny joke in an unfunny thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  9. #34
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    Can somebody please tell me the source of Hans acting it the capacity of a photographer. Thank you

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    We were discussing among rescuers yesterday how terrifying it was with things sliding where they "never" do and the idea of our impaired ability to determine what is truly a safe zone when you have 50/100 year slide events carving new paths.
    Powder Addiction said "The Powder Addiction group was skiing in accordance with standard operation procedures in a well known and frequently skied area."

    I think what I was trying to say was standard operation procedure doesn't work well in extremely non-standard conditions, and familiarity breeds contempt.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  11. #36
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    Feb 2005
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    Here is the exact same spot from 2014
    https://avalanche.state.co.us/caic/o...p?obs_id=21515

  12. #37
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    Dec 2006
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    To those questioning, "why were they operating yesterday?"

    Would you be asking that if the victim had been a ski patroller instead of a backcountry guide?
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    To those questioning, "why were they operating yesterday?"

    Would you be asking that if the victim had been a ski patroller instead of a backcountry guide?
    How are those two remotely equivalent?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    How are those two remotely equivalent?
    They are both avalanche professionals whose livelihood involves working in avalanche terrain on publicly owned land for the purpose of facilitating operations of a for-profit business. Maybe a better question is, how are they different?
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  15. #40
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    Nov 2002
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    Said a different way, assuming you are asking an honest question and not going down on your E cock, possible answers could be:

    a. the decision to operate way made prior to the forecast and knowledge of the rampant avalanche activity in the general area was known

    b. operator believed they could avoid the hazard/avalanche terrain

    c. a pile of other hypothetical answers that provide zero justification of operating in retrospect

    I do think it is the most salient question at hand. With the data I had available to me at 0530 yesterday, I decided to stay out of the backcountry simply because I believed that we were in the middle of an historic avalanche cycle and I did not feel confident that I could identify what was on was not avalanche terrain based on both the distance slides had been traveling and reports of slides on exceptionally low angled slopes.

    I don't bring this up to tell you how good it feels to be working over my E cock, simply to make the fairly obvious point that if we are to use these tragedies as case studies, which I think we should, lets get down to brass tacks and identify decision making that we don't agree with and why instead of restating the obvious.

    I have come around recently to the idea that just because an decision may appear basic and obvious, it is anything but simple and easy to execute. I have an idea that many of you are pretty competent at tuning out the noise and performing objective analysis. That is awesome. But please don't let that come of as smug.

    It would be nice to think that we, as backcountry skiers, are all in this together. Lets try to work on a culture where we can simultaneously be critical and supportive for the singular purpose of staying safe.

  16. #41
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    Jones Pass Fatality

    One is out presumably for purposes of mitigation. The other has clients to keep safe. Stupid comparison.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    One is out presumably for purposes of mitigation. The other has clients to keep safe. Stupid comparison.
    Guided operations perform mitigation work all the time. Some even have permits to use explosives (I don't know if PA does or not). The role of both is to keep clients safe.
    Since I'm stupid, perhaps you could lay out the differences in a bit more detail. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Guided operations perform mitigation work all the time. Some even have permits to use explosives (I don't know if PA does or not). The role of both is to keep clients safe.
    Since I'm so stupid, perhaps you could lay out the differences in a bit more detail. Thanks.
    The news stated he was a photog attached to a client group. That's the issue

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    The news stated he was a photog attached to a client group. That's the issue
    Do you know specifically how his general role as a photographer for the company affected the chain of events and outcome of this accident?
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  20. #45
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    Irrelevant.

  21. #46
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    Feb 2015
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    381
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    To those questioning, "why were they operating yesterday?"

    Would you be asking that if the victim had been a ski patroller instead of a backcountry guide?
    I think it's a difference in the terrain they're operating in. In bounds has been patrolled and blasted heavily. It doesn't have the chance to build up to create the level of slides happening right now. Some backcountry operations might do mitigation but I doubt it's on the same level as a resort. Either way I'm not passing judgement against the operators but I don't think its fare to compare the two.

  22. #47
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    Nov 2002
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    The news stated he was a photog attached to a client group
    Link please. Not saying you are wrong, but the deceased was absolutely trained and employed as a guide.

    I'm not sure that it is tremendously relevant but given that A Basin elected not to open yesterday due to avalanche hazard I'd say there are certainly parallels between patrol/guides and ski areas/guides operations.

  23. #48
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    On a level 5 day, when cars are being buried on the interstate and mature trees are being knocked down there is no such thing as a safe zone

  24. #49
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    Jones Pass Fatality

    Im not saying being a photog is the issue. The issue is they are out for the purpose of escorting clients around, not doing avy mitigation. The issue people have is why would anyone take clients out w the current snowpack issues into what was an exposed situation. It would seem that they should have taken the terrain above them into account as well as the slope they were on. The issue is the guiding clients part if that wasn't clear

  25. #50
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    Feb 2015
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    Jones Pass Fatality

    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    I'm not sure that it is tremendously relevant but given that A Basin elected not to open yesterday due to avalanche hazard I'd say there are certainly parallels between patrol/guides and ski areas/guides operations.
    In his blog Al said that decision was based on the threat from the professor and widow maker.
    “We do have teams working on the mountain. The Ski Patrollers are running their avalanche routes. The Lift Crew is digging out the chairlifts and getting them going. Snow plows and snowcats are trying to keep travel lanes open.“

    Edit: I’m not saying there aren’t parallels either. Both are dangerous but being out of bounds operating on an extreme day with the activity we’re seeing is in my opinion another level.

    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Last edited by ffmedic84; 03-08-2019 at 07:45 PM.

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