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  1. #226
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    Dec 2004
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    Yeah, the company name is/was a harbinger.

    Unfortunately in a year or so this incident will be forgotten and it will be repeated because people are just so fucking smart and highly skilled at making decisions when it comes to snow covered mountains.

    Some really good opinions in here however.

  2. #227
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Whe conditions are a bit tricky, I prefer the approach of, here’s several options. Lets pick the one that makes the most sense. I try to pick locations that have various options to dial down as necessary as opposed to either ‘lets see’ or ‘this is our objective’. Again, when conditions are tricky. Objectives have a time and a place.
    This is my practice, even when it is not tricky.

    Have a plan with options A, B, C, D... Z is go out the way you came!

    I also try to have considered expectations of what will make me not choose A etc, although I can always find an unconsidered reason to choose the next option, or just the gut.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  3. #228
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    Yeah, the company name is/was a harbinger.

    Unfortunately in a year or so this incident will be forgotten and it will be repeated because people are just so fucking smart and highly skilled at making decisions when it comes to snow covered mountains.
    Truth.

    It is essential to prepare fastidiously and have as much knowledge as possible at your disposal before heading into the mountains in order to stack the odds in your favor, but you are deluding yourself if you ever step foot into the mountains and don't acknowledge that circumstances could arise which will make it your final trip into them. Know death, no death.
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  4. #229
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    Dec 2009
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    Paradise
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    This is my practice, even when it is not tricky.

    Have a plan with options A, B, C, D... Z is go out the way you came!

    I also try to have considered expectations of what will make me not choose A etc, although I can always find an unconsidered reason to choose the next option, or just the gut.
    I think this is the natural thinking process. Even though I say "Lets just go take a look" I always have ideas in mind. All I'm saying is that I like to keep everything in check to not get too focused on any singular objective. I would do that when I was young and it has gotten me into trouble. I think one of the most important components for safe, back country travel is adaptability.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  5. #230
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    Oct 2008
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    Golden, CO
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    the morning of the event, Powder Addiction had copied the CAIC forecast for the morning to their FB page, warning skiers of likely, very large to historic avalanches.
    By the afternoon, word of the event was spreading and they removed the CAIC post. That sort of imply a consciousness of guilt to me. I didn't chime in on this thread earlier as I know some of you know the people affected. They knew they shouldn't have been out there.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by N1CK. View Post
    the morning of the event, Powder Addiction had copied the CAIC forecast for the morning to their FB page, warning skiers of likely, very large to historic avalanches.
    By the afternoon, word of the event was spreading and they removed the CAIC post. That sort of imply a consciousness of guilt to me. I didn't chime in on this thread earlier as I know some of you know the people affected. They knew they shouldn't have been out there.
    That's just rough. At least the person that passed wasn't a client. It sucks regardless but I imagine the deceased had enough experience to make the call for himself that day and was probably a part of that decision making process. I think the guilt factor would be much worse if someone passed, someone without any knowledge while you were completely responsible for their safety.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  7. #232
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    Mar 2009
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    one of those gaper mountain towns
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    I have no insights to the reasons why, but my observation is that initial news reports (as conveyed from witnesses to sheriff to news media to public) of backcountry accidents, especially for less mainstream sports like backcountry skiing or rock climbing or mountaineering, are almost always wildly inaccurate.
    This.

    I've also been grossly mis-quoted by the media when trying to provide the information they were too lazy to do their own research to obtain (or couldn't wrap their tiny minds around). Guessing the Undersheriff spoke with multiple parties in the parking lot right after the event, probably with some conflicting information which time didn't allow to vet. Also guessing that's what made it to a reporter who had a deadline to meet. IME, people are more interested in the fact that someone died, rather than the mechanism.

    You should hear the disappointment when the media catches wind of Alpine responding emergent, only to find out it's just for a lost hiker with a boo-boo-bunny.
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetoskiatalta View Post
    Dude its losers like you that give ski bums a bad rap.

  8. #233
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    Nov 2004
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    YetiMan
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    The more I've lived, the more I've come to appreciate this thing with news....it's just almost always a little off; and it seems like each of us, within our own fields of expertise, just figure it's that one area they can't get right.

    My sister can tell you all about how the news mishandles coverage of public education.
    I saw significant errors and omissions and misunderstandings of wildland fires.
    My cousin talked to me at length about poor coverage of policing matters, specific cases, police work in general...etc.
    Sports stories are fucked up, we know how they cover skiing.
    It's just sort of everything. Everything is being processed by these news systems that compress and distort and oversimplify information toward ends that don't even seem well-indentified....except that the process of being highly accurate and thorough with things seems to strike people wrong because it's so different than what they're used to.

    So we all go "I'm a ______________ expert....they get __________________ so messed up on the news" but all the other subjects besides that one area are being assimilated into what amounts to a distorted world view, a conventional wisdom born of a million little pieces of misunderstanding.

  9. #234
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    Apr 2006
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    SF & the Ho
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    Jones Pass Fatality

    Reporters are generally Jacks of all Trades, masters of none. The right questions don't always get asked. I have huge respect for most of them and believe most are well intentioned, but they lack subject matter expertise and miss a lot because of that and the pressure of industry deadlines. It's all lit worse now w the competitive pressures that basically eliminated fact checkers to keep them on their toes. It's all basically formula for these guys to plug the content they find into a template for their spots. The Daily Show was great at exposing how formulaic this dumbness has become and that people even though they say they want Cronkite, actually tune into the most entertaining news available

  10. #235
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    Feb 2005
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    11,650
    Probably in the wrong thread, but this shit annoys me:

    "The Washington Post/ NYT / any media organization" is reporting ....

    "Unconfirmed reports of .... are coming out of ...."

    Journalism is basically dead. It's like shooting film.

  11. #236
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    Mar 2009
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    one of those gaper mountain towns
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    Back on track: I was impressed by how quickly PA extricated and transported the victim to waiting ambulance. I guess you hope this would be the case with any professional touring operation, but obviously it isn't always so. I'm also relieved that there was only the one party to be extricated/transported/treated. Seems like there was a pretty good potential for a much worse outcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetoskiatalta View Post
    Dude its losers like you that give ski bums a bad rap.

  12. #237
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    Probably in the wrong thread, but this shit annoys me:

    "The Washington Post/ NYT / any media organization" is reporting ....

    "Unconfirmed reports of .... are coming out of ...."

    Journalism is basically dead. It's like shooting film.
    If you compare journalism today with what it was like in generations and centuries past, I'd say it is about as good as it ever has been, if not better--at least as far as the newspapers of record are concerned, and at least as far as the stories that get covered. Broadcast and cable media have always sucked, PBS and NPR excluded. I say as far as the stories that get covered because too many stories don't get covered due to the gutting of newsrooms due to the financial collapse of the newspaper business.

    As far as the inaccuracy of initial reports, that's a given. The old expression is that journalism is the first draft of history. Lots of drafts before someone gets it right, and by then everyone who was involved is long since dead.

  13. #238
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    If you compare journalism today with what it was like in generations and centuries past, I'd say it is about as good as it ever has been,
    I think you are full of shit.

  14. #239
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    Apr 2006
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    OG is correct. Although I'd say we peaked in the mid 70s. The pre radio/tv era was a pretty bad for news. Hearst is one example.

  15. #240
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    Jan 2017
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    on the banks of Fish Creek
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    1,347
    ever heard of “yellow journalism”? this shit ain’t new.....



    Description

    “Yellow journalism and the yellow press are American terms for journalism and associated newspapers that present little or no legitimate well-researched news while instead using eye-catching headlines for increased sales. Techniques may include exaggerations of news events, scandal-mongering, or sensationalism.”

  16. #241
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1

    Jones Pass Fatality

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunder View Post

    As I stated in a previous post, anyone in the US can call themselves a "guide". So my question is what kind of actually accreditation did these "guides" actually have?
    it would be interesting to know the stats on guide education vs accident rate.

    It seems that even highly educated and experienced guides make fatal mistakes.

  17. #242
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    Nov 2003
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    Colorado
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    1,778
    Hello,
    Does anyone have a good High Res photo of Hans Berg. It looks like he will be added the the American Avalanche Association's Memorial List. I'd like the picture for the A3 files and for an article in TAR.
    "True love is much easier to find with a helicopter"

  18. #243
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    Nov 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,778
    Hello,
    I got one PM with some email addresses. I sent emails and have not heard anything. Can anyone help me out here?
    "True love is much easier to find with a helicopter"

  19. #244
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    Mar 2009
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    one of those gaper mountain towns
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksaw View Post
    Hello,
    I got one PM with some email addresses. I sent emails and have not heard anything. Can anyone help me out here?
    You might check with Powder Addiction if anyone answers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetoskiatalta View Post
    Dude its losers like you that give ski bums a bad rap.

  20. #245
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,778
    On their website the "contact" page doesn't work.....
    "True love is much easier to find with a helicopter"

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