Wildcat 108 and woodsman

[TahoeJ]

^^ That's a good description of the Wren 108. Sounds like the Woodsman will just be a lot more versatile without giving up charge-ability.

I wouldn't say I found the speed limit, but I did find the tails of the kartel 108 to wash out really easily. They didn't want to hold a clean arc through cut up snow. That's not an issue I have on my Bibby's or a few other skis with similar shapes / intentions. So yeah, wasn't a fan of the k108.

This is nice to hear. I didn't click at all with the K108's and had the same issues you describe, so I'm hoping the Wildcat 108 will be a bit more my style. Benefits of a lot of tail rocker but mounted a bit further back and can still be tip-driven to some degree.

[mr_pretzel]

I had extra stiff k108s and the ski didn’t really have a speed limit, it was just the radius was a bit smaller than I’d like and wouldn’t let you arc big turns in variable like the older jeffrey110 could.

I’m so excited for the woodsman!

[kid-kapow]

Great post CallMeAl! Now I too wanna get me some Woodsmans! That will be for the quiver consolidation of 2021 though

Or, should I not remount my K108s back two centimeters, sell them and get Woodsmans instead? Decisions, decision... I am thinking that -2 mounts for both my Kartel108s and 116s is the way to go now - to try em out, then I could replace them for Woodsmans for 2021 if they do not work out like I want them to.

And yeah - Woodsmans do have more Wren'esque tail rocker lines, def less than Kartels. For sidecuts Kartel96/108s are ellipical up front, single radius out back - aka the hybrid sidecut - while Woodsman108s are bi-radius.

[SupreChicken]

Really appreciate all the thoughtful responses to my question. Gives me some more clarity. If I hadn’t sold out in the last couple of years to get better at riding switch and in the park, I’m sure I’d be looking for a ski just like the woodsman.

As it is, I’m happy enough on the kartel and not in need of a dozen skis in the 105-110 range like I am in the 115-120 range.

[123ski]

Really appreciate all the thoughtful responses to my question. Gives me some more clarity. If I hadn’t sold out in the last couple of years to get better at riding switch and in the park, I’m sure I’d be looking for a ski just like the woodsman.

As it is, I’m happy enough on the kartel and not in need of a dozen skis in the 105-110 range like I am in the 115-120 range.

For the sake of not creating a new thread, I might just hijack this one for a moment.

I just sold a pair of 190 Bibby Pros (new model). This was my second time owning this ski and never really liked it. Never felt like I could drive the tip without it folding over on me (mine was mounted +1.25cm from recommend). Not sure why I bought it again actually. Also found that the tip wanted to sink in heavier pow unless I skied further back than I normally do.

I also have a pair of proto Jeffrey 108s. I believe they are stock, but might be slightly heavier build. I have always found that I can drive the tip on these better than the Bibby, and that they make a wider variety of turn types than the Bibby. These are a proto of the original Jeffrey 108, so not sure if it had the bi-radius or RES? I really find in chop that there is ALMOST no speed limit on the Jeffrey, and even though I can drive the tip, I wish I could drive it a bit harder.

I also had a pair of Jeffrey 116 a few years ago, for about a day, before they got run over by a semi truck. From what I remember they felt very similar to my Jeffrey 108, a touch softer in the tip, and not quite as good on groomers.

So here is the question.

I'd like 3 skis. For Snowbird/Alta. Just picked up a brand new pair of Mindbender 99ti that I've skied twice and like alot.

Jeffrey's are now pretty old, but still in great condition. Could sell these or keep them as an early/late season ski.

34 years old. 190 lbs. Ski faster than I used to. Ski faster than I probably should. Ski switch less than I used to, but still like to get sideways.

Which quiver should I prefer:

90-100: K2 Mindbender 99ti
100-115: ON3P Woodsman 108
115+: ON3P Billy Goat

90-100: K2 Mindbender 99ti
100-115: ON3P Wrenegade 108ti/ON3P Wrenegade 108
115+: ON3P Jeffrey 116/ON3P Woodsman 116

[kid-kapow]

I would go wood108s+wood116s, or wood96s+wood116s if you want the skinnier ski.

Wood108s and wood116s ski a bit differently due to width differences and flex differences (116s are a bit rounder flex wise), but both are very happy to be ridden either centered or driven. They compliment each other well. Wood116s have better float, while the back ski of wood108s are a bit more in the snow in fresh snow (duh i know) Both are awesome imho.

Wood116s will be a bit more directional and less jibby than jeffrey116s too though, and a fair bit more chargy. There's quite a bit of feedback on both skis in the ON3P thread - especially the 116 as of late.

BGs are ton of fun as well, but prefer a more centered stance - not being driven like crazy. Wood116s will ski groomers/hard snow better than BGs too. Will wood116s have the same ability to charge in tracked out pow as BGs? To early to tell for me, but BGs are magical at that sort of snow conditions. Like magic carpet magic. That being said, it is hard to go very wrong with either ski as both are awesome imho. Wood116s will ski better switch though.

Wren108s are a ton of fun as well, but are def less versatile than wood108s wrt stance. Wrens def prefer the rider to be more "on" all the time, while remaing easy to ski (if that makes sense). They are not demanding, but remain a charger all the same. I own and love both wren108s and wood108s. If I had to narrow it down to just one ski the more versatile choice is wood108s (and I really, really love my wren108s). They have the same/similar top end speed, but wood108s are better at going about stuff in a more relaxed manner imho. Wood108s are not jibby, but solid and fun.

enough ramblings for now.

[adrenalated]

These are a proto of the original Jeffrey 108, so not sure if it had the bi-radius or RES?

The original Jeffrey 108 had elliptical sidecut. I suppose a proto could have had bi-radius. No Jeffrey would have had RES.

[mtskibum16]

For the sake of not creating a new thread, I might just hijack this one for a moment.

I just sold a pair of 190 Bibby Pros (new model). This was my second time owning this ski and never really liked it. Never felt like I could drive the tip without it folding over on me (mine was mounted +1.25cm from recommend). Not sure why I bought it again actually. Also found that the tip wanted to sink in heavier pow unless I skied further back than I normally do.

I also have a pair of proto Jeffrey 108s. I believe they are stock, but might be slightly heavier build. I have always found that I can drive the tip on these better than the Bibby, and that they make a wider variety of turn types than the Bibby. These are a proto of the original Jeffrey 108, so not sure if it had the bi-radius or RES? I really find in chop that there is ALMOST no speed limit on the Jeffrey, and even though I can drive the tip, I wish I could drive it a bit harder.

I also had a pair of Jeffrey 116 a few years ago, for about a day, before they got run over by a semi truck. From what I remember they felt very similar to my Jeffrey 108, a touch softer in the tip, and not quite as good on groomers.

So here is the question.

I'd like 3 skis. For Snowbird/Alta. Just picked up a brand new pair of Mindbender 99ti that I've skied twice and like alot.

Jeffrey's are now pretty old, but still in great condition. Could sell these or keep them as an early/late season ski.

34 years old. 190 lbs. Ski faster than I used to. Ski faster than I probably should. Ski switch less than I used to, but still like to get sideways.

Which quiver should I prefer:

90-100: K2 Mindbender 99ti
100-115: ON3P Woodsman 98
115+: ON3P Billy Goat

90-100: K2 Mindbender 99ti
100-115: ON3P Wrenegade 108ti/ON3P Wrenegade 108
115+: ON3P Jeffrey 116/ON3P Woodsman 116

Just based on your description and the design intent of each ski, sounds like the Woodsman 108 is the middle size you want. I would go BG (PNW) for the 115+ option. Since you’re in Utah the C+D might be the answer for the big ski paired with the Woods108.

[eskido]

123, if you plannin ON3P 115+ in a quiver spot me thinks you def gon want some RES in that spot. Im not gon try to line out whether a wren or woods will work better in your 108ish spot, but if you have either or there and your mind confusers in the hundo spot, you should really really try some Goats (possibly even some CnD’s) in that big boi spot... #worthit

[123ski]

123, if you plannin ON3P 115+ in a quiver spot me thinks you def gon want some RES in that spot. Im not gon try to line out whether a wren or woods will work better in your 108ish spot, but if you have either or there and your mind confusers in the hundo spot, you should really really try some Goats (possibly even some CnD’s) in that big boi spot... #worthit

Now I’m going to have to spend more time on the C&D / BG research. Probably will pick up my 108 tonight, can wait on the bigger ski I think.


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[123ski]

I would go wood108s+wood116s, or wood96s+wood116s if you want the skinnier ski.

Wood108s and wood116s ski a bit differently due to width differences and flex differences (116s are a bit rounder flex wise), but both are very happy to be ridden either centered or driven. They compliment each other well. Wood116s have better float, while the back ski of wood108s are a bit more in the snow in fresh snow (duh i know) Both are awesome imho.

Wood116s will be a bit more directional and less jibby than jeffrey116s too though, and a fair bit more chargy. There's quite a bit of feedback on both skis in the ON3P thread - especially the 116 as of late.

BGs are ton of fun as well, but prefer a more centered stance - not being driven like crazy. Wood116s will ski groomers/hard snow better than BGs too. Will wood116s have the same ability to charge in tracked out pow as BGs? To early to tell for me, but BGs are magical at that sort of snow conditions. Like magic carpet magic. That being said, it is hard to go very wrong with either ski as both are awesome imho. Wood116s will ski better switch though.

Wren108s are a ton of fun as well, but are def less versatile than wood108s wrt stance. Wrens def prefer the rider to be more "on" all the time, while remaing easy to ski (if that makes sense). They are not demanding, but remain a charger all the same. I own and love both wren108s and wood108s. If I had to narrow it down to just one ski the more versatile choice is wood108s (and I really, really love my wren108s). They have the same/similar top end speed, but wood108s are better at going about stuff in a more relaxed manner imho. Wood108s are not jibby, but solid and fun.

enough ramblings for now.

First option Should have said woods 108, not 98.
Fixed it.

Thanks for the advice!


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