Salomon Boots, Intuition Liners, and Fischer Vacuum Machine

[Muggydude]

Made a few posts about this, but consolidating my questions into this thread. If you want to ignore my ramblings I put my main questions in bold haha.

I’m on my 4th season with my Salomon X-Pro 120s. The boots are still holding up well, but this season I’ve really started to notice that the flex really isn’t enough for my weight and style of skiing (190 lbs).

I have a wide forefoot (~103mm last), but the width extends further back on my foot than most people (2/3 of my foot is that wide until my toes, which taper in a good amount).

Feet are 25.5-26cm long, insteps are 27-27.5 cm. Narrow heel, big calf, normal arches. I supinate when I run (whereas most people pronate). Have about a .7” shell fit in the 25.5 Salomons.

I molded the 25.5 X-Pro 120s in the Fischer vacuum machine. Medium thickness sock, padding on outside of foot, thick toe cap. Heel/cuff pressure 320 psi, forefoot pressure 80 PSI. Have custom molded cork footbeds – Initially my feet hurt in the boots until we ground some thickness from the footbeds, and removed some arch support from the footbeds as well, to let my foot flatten out more. Boots have been pretty much golden since then.

Heel hold is still good 4 years later, but has lessened as the liners packed out (not much). First couple season I had super thin socks, past two seasons moved to thin Smartwool socks. If the boots start warm (either from my heated boot bag, or even better my Dryguy boot warmer), my feet generally stay warm all day. If it’s really cold (15 degrees or below) my toes can lose a little feeling/get cold. I never buckle the lower two buckles, off and on I need to unbuckle the upper two on the chair.

Anyways, I tried a bunch of boots on (friend works at an REI). X-Pros fit the best out of the box by far, although Dalbello Panterra fit pretty well too (worse heel hold, but with un-molded power wrap liners).

I picked up a pair of 2019 X-Pro 130s in a 25.5 for a great deal (very blue, not red I know). Interestingly enough, it appears that the 130s are wider than the X-Pro 120s? I measured 3 pairs of boots, all size 25.5: my heat molded 2015 X-Pro 120s, some new non-molded 2018 X-Pro 120s, and the new non-molded X-Pro 130s. Width wise, stock 130s = molded 120s, which are 3mm wider than stock 120s. Seems quite odd, but I remember someone else noting the width discrepancy between the flexes as well. Cuff/stance alignment seems better on my molded 120s.

Stuck my old molded 120 liners into the new 130 shells, and they feel really good actually just standing around in my house. Very similar to molded 120s, but with a little better heel hold. Going to ski the 130s this weekend with the old liners and see how they do, but I suspect they will be pretty pain free. With the stock un-molded 130 liners, the fit is definitely too tight, especially in the cuff (hard to get the boots buckled).

My main question, however, revolves around intuition liners. I want to try out some wraps (Pro-wrap seems like the best fit), in an effort to find a warmer boot, add some stiffness, and get a little better heel hold. Not sure how I want to mold them though. If the new 130’s ski great with the old 120 liners without any shell molding, I think it would make sense to just mold the intuition liners separately for the 130 shell and leave the shell alone?

If the new 130 shells feel too narrower/tight over the instep, and I need to mold the shells, should I:

A: Mold 130 shells with stock 130 liners together in vacuum. Pull out stock liners, and bake/mold the intuition pro-wraps in the cold shell. Concerned about getting enough volume, especially around the cuff, this way.
B: Mold 130 shells with Intuition Pro-wraps together in vacuum machine. Crank down buckles to get more room for higher volume liners, especially in cuff.
C: Mold 130 shells with intuition liners normally, without vacuum machine.


The reason I want to use the vacuum machine is it seemed to ensure the shell doesn’t expand where I don’t want it (heel). This was successful with my 120s, as the fit really is like a glove everywhere, but not hot spots and no pain. However, I’m not sure if that’s necessary since the intuition liners expand (whereas stock Salomon liners don’t).

Anyone have experience using intuitions in Fischer vacuum boots? How did you mold them? And how did the overall fit/heel hold change?

Anyone have experience with Salomon or other heat molded boots with intuitions? How did the overall fit and heel hold change after molding? And how did you mold them.

Long post I know. Going to Tahoe this weekend, might stop in to Start Haus to chat with the guys about it. Unfortunately they don’t have the vacuum machine I believe. Also might try and stop in to Cal Ski Co in Berkeley to talk to Paul or Greg about it, as they have they vacuum machine. A local shop (Sun Helm) does as well, there’s one boot-fitter there who I’ve talked to in the past who is knowledgeable. Not planning on molding these at home, I’d rather pay a fitter to help do the molding processes correctly, regardless if I use the vacuum machine or not.

[sierra_cement]

Which sun helm? The san mateo one, or san jose one?

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[Muggydude]

San Jose. Can't remember the guy's name, Jeb or something like that? Haven't been in to San Mateo.

[sierra_cement]

San Jose. Can't remember the guy's name, Jeb or something like that? Haven't been in to San Mateo.

San mateo shop has a fischer machine that they regularly use. San jose shop doesn't sell any fischer boots and don't really use their fischer machine.

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[Muggydude]

Good to know, thank you.

Doesn't seem like there's as much love for Zipfits on here. I had a meh experience with them years ago, but they were in a boot that was too big in length, and too narrow side to side. Interested in trying them out again though.

[Muggydude]

Went to a couple bootfitters to try some more boots on – Technica Mach1 MV felt the best, although the heel hold was not as good as the X-Pro 130, and overall I still think out of the box the X-Pros feel the best.

Skied the un-molded X-Pro 130 shells with my molded X-Pro 120 liners and custom footbeds that have about 90 days on them. Surprisingly this combo was excellent. Definitely a tighter fit in the heel and cuff (heel good, cuff not as much). I could definitely notice an increase in performance, seemingly from the increase in lateral and longitudinal stiffness, and the tighter fit. Really awesome.

I had to unbuckle on the lift most of the day (at the end felt okay to leave them buckled). I could leave the 120s buckled most of the time, but not a big deal. 130s result in a yighter fit without having to buckle as hard. Main differences as far as I could tell:

Tighter heel pocket
Slightly Lower instep (caused a little pain, mainly on the lift when the weight of the ski was pulling on the boots)
Cuff seems a little smaller and not molded quite as well to my calf and leg shape

Given the higher performance with minimal increase in discomfort, I think I’m going to leave the shells unmolded. I’ll keep skiing the 120 liners as long as they ski well. Will probably mold the new 130 liners at some point, without baking the shells. Pad outside of forefoot and instep, as well as toe cap.

Potentially may pick up the Intuition Pro-wraps in the fall Mag group-buy just to see how they compare.

I am pretty surprised that the shells fit un-molded without hurting my feet, considering my feet are 103mm wide for a good portion of the foot, and I have an instep about a size-size and a half larger than my length. The X-Pro supposedly has a 98mm last in a 25.5 size. Perhaps the moldable Salomon Liner really compresses a lot in the forefoot?

Dunno, don’t really care. New boots, no bootwork, increased performance, minimal pain = win for me.