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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    No longer somewhere in Idaho
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    Climbing Skins Discussion

    Ok, Iím sneaking up on some new skins. Iíve been on Climbing Skins Direct full nylon for 5-6 years. I love the grip, durability, and glue. In fact, really no problems ever. I hot wax them and iron down the glue once a month. I live in WA, so I work through a variety of temps and surface conditions.
    Of course, because they work great and I havenít struggled with skins in so long, Iím ready to try lighter, faster alternatives. Iíd love to get some full mohair, or mohair/nylon mix. I had Contour hybrids and was underwhelmed.
    Skimo.com has a dizzying array of choices- various pomoca, kohla, etc. whoís on what? What problems do you have with glue, durability, and grip? Is mohair a worthy/noticeable upgrade on fatter pow sticks? Is mo mix a good call? I dig BD sts tails, and a solid wire toe bail for adjustment; what else is good?



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    Gravity always wins...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
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    3,262
    Quote Originally Posted by riff View Post
    Ok, Iím sneaking up on some new skins. Iíve been on Climbing Skins Direct full nylon for 5-6 years. I love the grip, durability, and glue. In fact, really no problems ever. I hot wax them and iron down the glue once a month. I live in WA, so I work through a variety of temps and surface conditions.
    Of course, because they work great and I havenít struggled with skins in so long, Iím ready to try lighter, faster alternatives. Iíd love to get some full mohair, or mohair/nylon mix. I had Contour hybrids and was underwhelmed.
    Skimo.com has a dizzying array of choices- various pomoca, kohla, etc. whoís on what? What problems do you have with glue, durability, and grip? Is mohair a worthy/noticeable upgrade on fatter pow sticks? Is mo mix a good call? I dig BD sts tails, and a solid wire toe bail for adjustment; what else is good?



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    Pomoca works really well, packable, light

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Cascades
    Posts
    602
    I have used the following skins:

    Pomoca 70/30 mohair/nylon (Dynafit rebrand)
    Pomoca 70/30 mohair/nylon (normal tip/tail connectors)
    BD mohair mix (newer black and grey stripes)
    BD mohair mix (older black and grey blobs)
    Montana nylon
    Gecko (mohair? mohair mix?) glueless (4FRNT rebrand)

    The difference in skin grip between any of them is more down to the ski they're on; e.g. the Gecko skins are on Lotus 138s that don't grip very well in old, firm skin tracks.

    The glide difference bewteen nylon and mohair/mohair mix is very noticeable, especially on downhill skins-on tele turns.

    The packability difference between nylon and mohair is also noticeable. In order of most to least packable, normalized for skin width/length: Gecko, Pomoca, BD, Montana. The Gecko skins are really impressive here.

    Ski attachment/grip is pretty important. In order from most to least likely to stay on your skis: Dynafit, BD, Gecko, Montana, Pomoca. Montana nylon didn't work out so well because of the plastic clip and maybe my glue was bad. Pomoca is slightly worse because of non-stretchy tail clip straps. I bought these used, though, maybe my glue was bad.

    The somewhat controversial Dynafit attachment system has always worked very well for me, but I imagine that, while conventional tip-loop/tail-strap skins can be cranked down when they are saturated with water and stretch, Dynafit skins are unusable when soaking wet.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    5,693
    I've used largely G3 and BD skins. The G3 Alpinists I have not been a fan of. Dislike the tip attachment, and the glue always seems to get gloppy. The old BD Mohair mixes I loved. The new BD Ultralight skins are pretty chintzy, although their grip is excellent and they are highly packable.

    The best skins I've used by a country mile are the precut Ski Trab skins for my Sintesis. The absolute best tip/tail attachment system I've seen, the best glue I've used (always sticks to the skis even in super cold temperatures but is easy to rip), excellent grip, quite packable. But you pretty much need to be on a pair of Trab skis, which are expensive and hard to come by and not wide enough for most folks here. Although I guess you could cut your own from Skimoco...

    My next skins will be Pomoca CPGs and probably soon... the BD Ultralights I use for my daily driver touring skis are ripping at the tails, the tip attachment sucks and I'm getting impatient with them.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Winthrop, WA. Methow valley
    Posts
    954
    I've used a few pair of the Volkl precuts from Colltex and generally like them a lot. The good: compared to straight nylon that I've used (G3 alpinist, BD ascension, skinsdirect) the Colltex's glide noticeably better in all conditions and grip nearly as well. I've concluded that better skinning technique more than makes up for the minor drop in grip compared to nylon. I've used them in everything from spring corn to cold pow in Japan. Colltex's fold up in about half the space of nylon, even with the skin savers. The tail connectors on the Colltex (which are available from Skimo) work well. They have been durable and hold well enough. Not as secure as G3 or BD but don't really have any probs with them falling off as long as they were adjusted correctly. And lastly, you seldom hear about the physical weight of skins but the difference between my old, solid orange ascensions and the Colltex's on my BMT 94's is 132grams! 200 for the Colltex and 332 for the BD. The same Colltex for my BMT 122's is only 255 grams. The new ones aren't much lighter. I have a calibrated lab scale so I'm fairly confident in my weights. The single thing I don't like about the Colltex is that the glue is sticky as shit. Hard to rip and a total pain in the ass if you fold them glue to glue; hence the skin savers.

    Spent a fair amount of time on the phone with Skimo recently and it sounds like the Ski Trab and both Pomocas are similar to the Colltex but without the freaky strong glue. Plus, with them you get to mix and match your attachments. I'd give Skimo a call and get all the parts and pieces that fit your needs best.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
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    22,671
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    I've used largely G3 and BD skins. The G3 Alpinists I have not been a fan of. Dislike the tip attachment, and the glue always seems to get gloppy. The old BD Mohair mixes I loved. The new BD Ultralight skins are pretty chintzy, although their grip is excellent and they are highly packable.

    The best skins I've used by a country mile are the precut Ski Trab skins for my Sintesis. The absolute best tip/tail attachment system I've seen, the best glue I've used (always sticks to the skis even in super cold temperatures but is easy to rip), excellent grip, quite packable. But you pretty much need to be on a pair of Trab skis, which are expensive and hard to come by and not wide enough for most folks here. Although I guess you could cut your own from Skimoco...

    My next skins will be Pomoca CPGs and probably soon... the BD Ultralights I use for my daily driver touring skis are ripping at the tails, the tip attachment sucks and I'm getting impatient with them.
    the quick and dirty way to make any skin more packable is to fold in half once and then roll them up

    I've been using the Dynafit branded Pomoca's for at least 5 years, they seem to grip well /glide ok /stand up to use and are fairly stiff which I think makes them easier to handle. I have had to reglue Pomoca with Gold label which is no big deal
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
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    7,212
    I've used the Pomoca (70-30), probably six different BD variations, CSD, and G3 alpinists. Pomoca are the clear winners. Worth the extra $$$ even if you can't find a deal. BD ultralight mix are 2nd best, but I've heard they rip pretty easily.

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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    No longer somewhere in Idaho
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    Groovy, sounds like pomoca 70/30 could be the ticket. With solid tip bails and BD tails.


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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Not Brooklyn
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    Quote Originally Posted by riff View Post
    Groovy, sounds like pomoca 70/30 could be the ticket. With solid tip bails and BD tails.


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    The new Pomoca tip loops are good. One pair I bought even came with two different sizes. Pomoca tails actually work well for me. They don't latch on as easily but the low profile stops them getting knocked off much

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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    307
    I've been using green K2 skins (pomoca rebrand) 70/30 for 3 seasons already and they really hold up well. Unfortunately glue adhesion on the side of tips and tails isn't as good as it was and I'm usually getting snowpack there, but all in all I'd buy them again. The only thing I strongly dislike about them are glue-side sheets that come with skins. They are just full-sized polyethylene sheets without any holes so you constatly have to put them on and off for skins to dry. BD version of sheets is cellular, so the skins can dry even with sheets on them

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    in the trench
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    12,085
    Anyone using montana skins. Im interested in these glueless skins. Im hesitant to stray from black diamond but after a long tiring day it can be a struggle pulling apart fat skins. Im thinking it could be much more enjoyable day just casually pulling skins apart and applying them. Do these montana skins actually work?

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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Idaho
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    9,184
    Iím holding out for e-skins.

  13. #13
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    Sep 2009
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    in the trench
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    Iím holding out for e-skins.
    Terrible!! You'll get all the skintracks shut down!! Im triggered!!!! Fuck Eskins! Mohairpeds is all they are!!!

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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Anyone using montana skins. Im interested in these glueless skins. Im hesitant to stray from black diamond but after a long tiring day it can be a struggle pulling apart fat skins. Im thinking it could be much more enjoyable day just casually pulling skins apart and applying them. Do these montana skins actually work?

    Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app
    I know what to do with a hot glued skin that isnt working i just reglue, so i always have a couple of tubes @ 20$ a tube

    But i have no idea what to do with a glueless skin that is not sticking, not now or not down the road ?

    old school Tip loop & tail strap has a lot of adjustment, I got a set of G3 with some used 190 lotus, I cut the tip hooks off and using old school tip loops those skins will fit the Gf's 165 Liberty genisus OR the 190 lotus

    IME all these chi chi tip hooks do is make a skin less likely to fit other skis
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    in the trench
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I know what to do with a hot glued skin that isnt working i just reglue, so i always have a couple of tubes @ 20$ a tube

    But i have no idea what to do with a glueless skin that is not sticking, not now or not down the road ?

    old school Tip loop & tail strap has a lot of adjustment, I got a set of G3 with some used 190 lotus, I cut the tip hooks off and using old school tip loops those skins will fit the Gf's 165 Liberty genisus OR the 190 lotus

    IME all these chi chi tip hooks do is make a skin less likely to fit other skis
    I think you just wash these new glueless skinscand theyre gtg until the next time you have to wash them. Not sure but i think its just soap and water. Some bold claims from the ads on them. Was hoping someone on the forum had dome time on them
    My bd's last for a few years before i need a reglue and then a few more years of procrastinating and i might reglue them, or get them reglued. Glueless sounds like a better solution in many ways , if their ads can be believed

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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    4,190
    Here's a thread on cleaning the Contours - something like a mild citrus degreaser does the trick: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=327338

    This is a crazy start to the year (doh!). The plan was to cut a pair of Pomocas to compare, although they would be on a different ski.

    @ISBD seems to glide ever so slightly better than me (him with Pomocas and me with the Contours). We're within 5 Lbs of each other, and both of us are typically on 182 GPOs.

    He seems to stick a bit better than me on the up, but I'll bet that's more due to better technique.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    149
    I have both K2 (Pomoca 30/70 mix) and Contour split skins. Pomoca has slightly better glide and slightly better grip. The latter can be attributed to the different ski width. Contour glue seemed weaker and I expected problems, but to my surprise it held nice.
    Additionally, the split skins work very well when traversing with wider skis, but going straight up is somewhat compromised.
    I plan to cut my K2 in the under-the-boot area + 20cm in both directions in an attempt to have the best from both worlds when skinning with wider skis.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    3,144
    What is your plan to keep the cut from lengthening?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    149
    I suspect the cuts won't tend to lengthen themselves noticeably. However, if empirical evidence proves me wrong, I plan to add bar-tacks.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
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    4,161
    I've had multiple pairs of Pomoca/Dynafit (all 70/30 mix), multiple pairs of Black Diamond (all nylon, mix, all mohair), multiple pairs of G3 (all nylon, mix), one pair of Kohla and one pair of Colltex mix. Every brand is workable and each has strong and weak points.

    Best plush: Pomoca 70/30 (I like the current turquoise Glide Pro-S) for balance of weight vs durability and glide vs grip, BD mix and G3 mix/all nylon are fine
    Best connection(s): I like the older G3 (silver tip fittings) and simple tail clip, BD cable (not string) and Pomoca are fine also.
    Best glue: I like the old "too sticky" Black Diamond after a year of break-in (new BD glue is a bit weak, current quiver includes two pairs of "rescue" older BD momix), Pomoca is also great. G3 is fine in cold weather but fails in wet conditions.

    Going to a mohair/nylon mix plush is well worth it for the added glide - pure mohair is great in powder/drier snow but lacks a bit on icy tracks
    Agree that the Black Diamond ultralight models are "delicate" - forget about your usual routine of skinning over branches and gravel in shoulder season; G3 Minimist seems more durable
    Probably the best all-round at the moment is Pomoca, but the tail clips are not great . . .

    Grip is the least of your worries; after you skin for a few weeks you figure out how to weight your skis and sense how much grip you have at your disposal. Glide is harder to fake, but keep in mind it gets better as the skins are worn-in (plush is worn thinner and hairs shorter) - works well to keep older skins in the quiver and keep cutting them to fit narrower skis as they age (only the edges wear out). Also don't forget to wax you skins regularly.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tahoe>Missoula>Fort Collins
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    i want to get rid of a pair of G3 alpinists but they wont die. there is an infinite amount of glue to go around, which finds its way onto everything from the ski to the skin to me.



    How do you check what type of skin an older pair of BDs are? do they say? i haven't pulled them out in a minute


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    22,671
    SO what do you do when washing a glueless skin doesnt work ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    西 雅 圖
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    How do you check what type of skin an older pair of BDs are? do they say? i haven't pulled them out in a minute
    By the pattern and color of the plush. Have you tried picking the blobs off the G3's and doing the hot iron thing?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Tahoe>Missoula>Fort Collins
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Best connection(s): I like the older G3 (silver tip fittings) and simple tail clip, BD cable (not string) and Pomoca are fine also.
    Also love the old G3 although most people seem to hate them.

    I hate the BD String w/ Metal Triangle. Junk. That's what is on this pair of skins I can't identify. I have some cable kits lying around and you just motivated me to switch them

    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    By the pattern and color of the plush. Have you tried picking the blobs off the G3's and doing the hot iron thing?
    Lemme go take a picture.

    I did the hot iron thing last year and it made a big improvement. I did it with parchment paper; if there is still too much glue, I might try it with paper bag method with soaks up some of the glue. Parchment paper brought them closer to what new was like, certainly evened the glue out again. I pull of the blobs when I get the chance heh


  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    西 雅 圖
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    SO what do you do when washing a glueless skin doesnt work ?
    Strip off all the silicone and replace with Gold Label

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