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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    64

    Japan van touring interest

    Trying to gauge interest in a company that would help plan, book, and support Japan tours by van/RV. Would love feedback on the idea and input from this community as I start developing the idea.

    I'm in the midst of a 3 month Japan tour in a van. Been all over Hokkaido and a large chunk of Honshu mostly doing backcountry, but hitting up some resorts along the way. I spent a year leading up to the trip doing hundreds of hours of research on places to go, resorts, backcountry zones, etc. Now I have a nice collection of backcountry maps, skin tracks, route maps, trail maps with annotations, and much more. I'm thinking of monetizing all of the work I put into this trip because 1. I want to keep coming back and 2. I've talked to a lot of people wanting to enjoy the real Japan and get out of the westernized Aussie haven of Niseko (don't get me wrong, I love the Niseko area). I think the best way of doing that is by van and having complete flexibility.

    Basically with my database of info and connections I've built thus far, I'd like to offer a set of standard as well as customized itineraries for people looking to ski/ride Japan. I would handle all of the booking, provide custom Google Maps with relevant destinations to the trip, tips, contacts, and be an English speaking point of contact in Japan for any assistance. Could build all resort tours, all BC tours, or a mix of both.

    Here are some of the benefits I would hope to offer:
    -standard or customized itinerary based on time and destination. Hokkaido and/or Honshu.
    -van/RV rental with discount from my current rental company
    -travel booking
    -partnerships with some of my favorite guiding companies
    -custom backcountry topo maps with skin track and various descent options. can be loaded into your phone
    -custom Google map with everything from permissible overnight parking spots to onsens, ski resorts, etc for the entirety of Hokkaido and Honshu.
    -demo partnerships with local snowboard/ski shapers like Gentemstick.
    -restaurant/bar recommendations.
    -private video/photo sessions (I am a videographer/photographer on the side)
    -resort maps annotated with the good spots so you don't have to go searching
    -Google Maps with personal spots I've discovered throughout my trip like safe avy barriers and roadside BC zones.

    What do people think? What would your wants/needs be for a service like this? Is there even any interest?

    All the above benefits are not speaking out of my ass either. I have access or have developed all of the above. While I don't have the depth in all of the locations like some others might have who have been there for years, I have the breadth because of how many places I've been over these past 2 months, and I think I can build some badass trips for people looking to do anywhere from 1-2 weeks, all the way up to a month or two. I hoping to get enough interest to launch next year building only a handful of trips to start out.

    What do people think? Feedback? Shit talk? If you think you'd be interested in booking something next year, send me a PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    5,013
    Go for it! Being able to chase storms is the best way to do Japan IMO. Having a touring setup kicks ass.

    Business plan and dig in. Talking to Dancing Snow guides made me want to start a business over there as well.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,665
    That's a very low overhead model. It'll only grow. Build it and contact me in the future and we'll expand you into Hakuba & Nagano.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    cordova,AK
    Posts
    3,689
    I think your idea sucks. Dont shit where you eat.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    774
    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    I think your idea sucks. Dont shit where you eat.
    I’m with him.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    420
    We rented a van in japan (check this: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...apan-2017-2018) and drove around quite a bit.

    We were very happy with everything but would have preferred 4WD for a little extra cost and pick up or return in Hokkaido (would be sweet to be able to give back the van elsewhere than pickup).

    Great was: onsen finder app, possibility to charge some extra GB on the WiFI, heater, free overnight stay at their place for pick up and return, storage of stuff (like ski bag) while we rented, friendly service, help with translation of driving license, solid insurance, english speaking service,...

    there goes a lot into this that is not skiing related. If you figure that part out I guess you will have success. If not you can have as many backcountry specific services and it won't help a lot.

    if people mean "don't shit where you eat" like don't publish the best zones: it will only be like 3-5 vans probably so 15 people max... I think japan can handle this.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,665
    I read it as "Don't turn famous lines into your source of income at the expense of other riders losing access to said lines." To which I don't disagree. But...

    We have ex-olympians out here setting up guiding services at resorts, yet independent of the resorts, guiding inbounds.

    You could easily set this up and stay away from the big famous lines that the locals worship. In fact, you should stay away from those lines for mere safety reasons. Hakuba is kind of turning into a shit-show with unprepared people riding a lift, then walking 30 minutes to the top of some of the most dangerous lines in the world... with 3 people below them that they don't know about.

    The access to safe terrain is pretty endless when you consider the average clientele just wants a day of safe laps in the legendary snow. 99% of the clients will be meadow-skipping pow chasers. They have no idea where to go... especially since it's so often a blizzard. And because they have no idea, they end up way out of their league on the only "known" accessible lines.

    Niseko resorts are famous for being over run, but the backcountry is so insanely endless (especially around Honshu) that there could be 100's of outfits of 1000's of clients that would never meet each other. All mini-golfing a few rad, safe forest lines per day out in the countryside.

    I pioneered the forests at my own ski resort inbounds 14 years ago. Now there are maybe 50 people who frequent it. 50. I welcome them. Feels so much safer seeing another person 100 meters away. Or-- that someone has already dropped in and I can see a hint of stability on this convex roll over of an entry that drops into a meat-grinder of a forest.

    The average resorts themselves away from the top 10 are still empty to the point that those of us in the know are securing funding to buy them as they tank.

    I think your idea is rad. Get a handful of safe zones away from the city. Mini golf lines with parking and firewood for aprés. A few tents. People would eat that up. And the growth would only support the education of safe riding in the industry. Couple that with some avalanche courses... it'll just grow and grow. And so easy to start small.

    Let those established guides mitigate the risk of the gnar... and the local pride. Cater to the up and comers who want to experience nostalgic Japan as a whole.
    Last edited by gaijin; 03-01-2019 at 05:18 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    I think your idea sucks. Dont shit where you eat.
    yeah I hear you on that. I go back and forth with this because I'm big on not blowing up a spot back home and have definitely found places here that I wouldn't want to blow up, and certainly not any zones truly "local" as I am not a local myself. But for starters, I'm thinking of this as a side-gig for now where I would only build a handful of trips each year. 2-5 maybe. I'm not looking to build this into something massive and blow it up. I'm looking to build it as a genuine service for the people who want it, and as a way to help offset my costs of coming back here for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    I read it as "Don't turn famous lines into your source of income at the expense of other riders losing access to said lines." To which I don't disagree. But...

    We have ex-olympians out here setting up guiding services at resorts, yet independent of the resorts, guiding inbounds.

    You could easily set this up and stay away from the big famous lines that the locals worship. In fact, you should stay away from those lines for mere safety reasons. Hakuba is kind of turning into a shit-show with unprepared people riding a lift, then walking 30 minutes to the top of some of the most dangerous lines in the world... with 3 people below them that they don't know about.

    The access to safe terrain is pretty endless when you consider the average clientele just wants a day of safe laps in the legendary snow. 99% of the clients will be meadow-skipping pow chasers. They have no idea where to go... especially since it's so often a blizzard. And because they have no idea, they end up way out of their league on the only "known" accessible lines.

    Niseko resorts are famous for being over run, but the backcountry is so insanely endless (especially around Honshu) that there could be 100's of outfits of 1000's of clients that would never meet each other. All mini-golfing a few rad, safe forest lines per day out in the countryside.

    I pioneered the forests at my own ski resort inbounds 14 years ago. Now there are maybe 50 people who frequent it. 50. I welcome them. Feels so much safer seeing another person 100 meters away. Or-- that someone has already dropped in and I can see a hint of stability on this convex roll over of an entry way into a meat grinder of a forest.

    The average resorts themselves away from the top 10 are still empty to the point that those of us in the know are securing funding to buy them as they tank.

    I think your idea is rad. Get a handful of safe zones away from the city. Mini golf lines with parking and firewood for aprés. A few tents. People would eat that up. And the growth would only support the education of safe riding in the industry. Couple that with some avalanche courses... it'll just grow and grow. And so easy to start small.

    Let those established guides mitigate the risk of the gnar... and the local pride. Cater to the up and comers who want to experience nostalgic Japan as a whole.
    A lot of great input here I appreciate it. Perhaps as this develops we connect and I pick your brain a little bit more.

    From what I've gathered talking to people, most Americans have Japan as their bucket list dream trip and they usually spend 10 days to 3 weeks here. I think 10 days - 2 weeks is most common. Most people are going to want to go to Niseko anyway because it does have great terrain and infrastructure, but the great thing about the area is it has a lot of great terrain around that is easily accessible, but really only plausible with private transport rather than buses/trains. The thing about it as well is most of these people are recreational backcountry riders who want a mix of resort and BC to get away from the crowds when the resort is tracked. Even the most blown up BC spots around Niseko are still great options and can be untracked all day. One day I rolled up to the most common BC trailhead in Niseko at 3:30pm and got untracked snow until sunset just 10 minutes from my car. Most people don't need or want to go to the uber local spots, and that's not something I'd want to necessarily sell. They just want good snow and a map with beta on where to go.

    I think at the end of the day, a van trip is a cheaper and fun alternative to just posting up in Niseko/Hakuba, buying passes and hiring a guide. The hard part is figuring out all of the logistics and the ins/outs. I think that's where I would effectively come in: Here you go, loose itinerary that's flexible based on snow, here's trail maps with my favorite zones on each resort in your itinerary, here's a few great safe zones where you can get fresh snow and guide yourself with my maps. Here's some restaurant recommendations. Bam there you go.

    To some (me), that planning, guesswork, exploration, and failure is part of the fun. But for someone who doesn't have 3 months to fuck around and wants their once-in-a-lifetime trip to be great, they would pay for that information.


    No lie about Hakuba. That place scared the shit out of me when I was there. As a pretty experienced BC rider, it makes me nervous to see how many goons take the lifts up and venture out there. Avalanche danger was high and 4 people had been caught in avalanches the 2 days before I arrived and 2 died I believe. Another few incidents and a death in the week I was there. Hakuba would be an honest weak point in this plan as of now. Didn't get many opportunities to get out in the BC because it was so hairy, and beta is harder to find if you don't know someone. Fortunately I have a few contacts now, so I would need to pick their brains some more. Honestly Hakuba and northward into Tohoku are places I want to explore more next season. I went back to Hokkaido after a big rain event and now I'm back down here for Tenjin, but the rain is killing things and I just haven't gotten a chance to explore Fukushima, Gunma, Yamagata, Aomori, etc like I've wanted to beyond the resort. Next year. Back up to Hokkaido on Sunday to finish March in central/northern Hokkaido and enjoy spring lines there as well as expore a few off the beaten track areas.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    NAZ
    Posts
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    The access to safe terrain is pretty endless when you consider the average clientele just wants a day of safe laps in the legendary snow. 99% of the clients will be meadow-skipping pow chasers. They have no idea where to go... especially since it's so often a blizzard. And because they have no idea, they end up way out of their league on the only "known" accessible lines.

    Niseko resorts are famous for being over run, but the backcountry is so insanely endless (especially around Honshu) that there could be 100's of outfits of 1000's of clients that would never meet each other. All mini-golfing a few rad, safe forest lines per day out in the countryside.
    This was my experience in central Hokkaido a few years ago. I saw a couple vans full of skiers parked in a pullout in this zone we were skiing outside Asahikawa. Just drove a little further down the road and skied by ourselves. Hokkaido seems to have endless meadow skipping pow that wouldn't interfere with anyone.
    It sucks to suck.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Park City
    Posts
    5,013
    We would definitely be interest. Have a tentative plan to take the grommettes back and rent a van next year.


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