Does the Bay Area Suck

[carlh]

I currently live in Seattle, own a house with a big ass mortgage and have a family, I am considering a move to the bay area for better career options, is this a horrible idea?

I am mid 30s, work in the medical device / diagnostic technology field as a mechanical engineering leader and have been casually looking for new positions. I like working for small innovative companies and get bored easily so being able to move around has a lot of appeal. The bay area has about 10x the jobs that look interesting to me compared to the Seattle area and as far as I can tell will pay enough to cancel out a most if not all of the cost of living increase. Seattle has been getting more crowded with worse traffic and higher costs without much job or wage growth in my field. From a pure career perspective the move seems like a solid option with a lot of flexibility. Most of the jobs seem concentrated in the silicon valley corridor.

Outside work I have a young kid and my wife's career is flexible on location. I like to ski and mtb but don't get out a ton right now due to family and work obligations. Looks like there is decent MTBing but probably not as good as the PNW. Skiing is a drive to Tahoe or a flight, but we have family in Reno and would probably end up over there pretty regulatory.

Folks who have lived there, how are the close by recreation options and how hard is it to get out?

[AK47bp]

Question #1: Does the wife want to do it?

Step 2: If answer to question 1 is yes, do it.

Step 3: if the answer to question 1 is no, don’t do it.

[skaredshtles]

Don't worry about recreation - you can do all that shit when you retire.

[LightRanger]

Short answer: Yes. I would not move to the Bay Area from Seattle right now.

If you think the various crappy parts of life in a major metro are bad in Seattle, I think you will find them to be worse on The Peninsula/SV.

But I dunno. Maybe the better career options are worth the tradeoffs? Plenty of people seem to think so...

[Meadow Skipper]

You know the Bay Area’s going to be crowded, have bad traffic, and big-ass mortgages, right? Then there’s the drive to skiing, with 50,000 of your best friends on the road too.

But other than that it sounds pretty good.

[jackstraw]

Didn't everyone from CA move to Seattle to get away from the crowds?

[carlh]

This is the real question, how much worse is the crowding/traffic/general BS vs how much better are the jobs? I moved to Seattle as it had decent jobs and fun stuff nearby in the mountains. Job market is ok but not great and the cool stuff is getting more crowded and harder to get too. The other factor for the bay (minus SF proper) is getting to see the sun more than 50 days per year, I hate the grey darkness here.

Short answer: Yes. I would not move to the Bay Area from Seattle right now.

If you think the various crappy parts of life in a major metro are bad in Seattle, I think you will find them to be worse on The Peninsula/SV.

But I dunno. Maybe the better career options are worth the tradeoffs? Plenty of people seem to think so...

[TurxSki]

You could prolly find a good job around Reno. No, really...
A bit closer to skiing. Close to mb.
Property pricing is just starting to get silly.

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[Crow]

I've been living and working as an engineer in the bay area for about 3 years now. There are definitely some aspects that suck but overall not hating it. That being said I am considering making the move up to Seattle some day.

Pro:
-Mostly sunny and pleasant weather year round
-Year round mountain biking is great. Depending where in bay area you live, there can be some trail access issues. I currently live in East Bay and it isn't too hard for me to sneak in a mountain bike ride before/after work. SF proper and South Bay would make this much more difficult. If you are willing to drive a bit on the weekends Santa Cruz has some amazing riding. Also Downieville is about 3 hours away.
-Great skiing in Lake Tahoe area
-Excellent job market for engineering and tech, higher salaries partially cancel out cost of living increase

Con:
-So many people, so much traffic
-Cost of living is very high
-Real estate prices are absolutely brutal. Median home price in East Bay suburbs can be ~ 1 million. Closer to SF is even more ridiculous
-Drive to Tahoe is ~3.5 hrs on a good day. On holiday weekends this can easily double due to traffic


TL;DR: Great job market for engineering and pretty good access to mountain biking. Brutal real estate prices, lots of traffic, long drive to skiing

[mcski]

If weather is also a driver, do it. It's crowded as fuck and traffic sucks, so it depends a bunch on where you land and how much commuting you have to do. First though, chk of the wife, like the man said

[dan_pdx]

In the Portland area, it's getting pretty common for people to work remotely for Bay Area companies, and maybe fly down a few times a month as needed. (How this affects our housing market is a separate rant.) Not sure if Seattle is considered to be in the greater Bay Area (sigh) in the same way as Portland, but might be worth looking for those kinds of opportunities if you're not dead set on living in the Bay Area.

[El Chupacabra]

Question #1: Does the wife want to do it?

Step 2: If answer to question 1 is yes, do it.

Step 3: if the answer to question 1 is no, don’t do it.

What are we talking about here?

[AK47bp]

^ anal

[Maximus Gradient]

...TL;DR: Great job market for engineering and pretty good access to mountain biking. Brutal real estate prices, lots of traffic, long drive to skiing

Truth. Same experience here for me, but replace "engineering" with "biopharma" in my scenario. Been here the same length of time living in Berkeley and we're considering a move to the Marin/Sonoma so I can be closer to work and avoid a bridge toll (wife's job is remote).

OP - it sounds like you've done your research and already know, but the device/diagnostics field is huge here...I feel like there are new start-ups coming online daily. I'm originally from Maryland; the Bay Area is crazy populated in comparison which has been the biggest challenge for me, otherwise it's pretty rad if you're looking to have a career in tech and still access the outdoors.

That said, if you want to have fun you gotta get after it to beat the rush - wake up early/leave work early and come back late. There's a "sweet spot" between like 8pm and 5am where there's little-to-no traffic, but sometimes things can get fucked in the off hours too. Also, CA drivers are the worst. Period.

[LightRanger]

Also, CA drivers are the worst. Period.

Apparently you haven't been to Oregon.

SME

Slowest.

Motherfuckers.

Ever.

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
That said, if you want to have fun you gotta get after it to beat the rush - wake up early/leave work early and come back late. There's a "sweet spot" between like 8pm and 5am where there's little-to-no traffic,

Those of us in the real world call that "the middle of the night" and we sleep during it.

[El Chupacabra]

^ anal

Those of us in the real world call that "the middle of the night" and we sleep during it.

Hmm...

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Do a recon trip, make some contacts, check out some 'hoods. You'll get an idea pretty quick if it's for you.

[Buster Highmen]

wait...wait...is this a troll?

[phatty]

Live in Issaquah (16 yrs) and travel to work in the Silicon Valley at least 1 day a week. In tech, though not medical. My friends in the Bay are always asking when I'm moving down. Whatever you read about cost of living difference is underselling it. While my house has appreciated in my time in Seattle, it would be close to $3M for a comparable house in the Bay. Unless my salary was at least 2x more, no way I could afford it and have the same lifestyle. Plus driving 4hrs to skiing (admittedly better than Seattle skiing) compared to 40 minutes would mean getting way less days on the mountain when I feel I don't get enough as it is. It is just as crowded (probably worse) than Seattle. I don't think its anywhere near as pretty as Seattle (I like evergreen trees and close mountains, not just hills).

All that said, listen to the advice of listening to your wife. Go down together to check it out and stay for a while. Go in the summer so you aren't just comparing in the winter when Seattle is at its worst. I can definitely understand why people would want to live here, just not for me.

[wickstad]

please take half a million shitty drivers with you, thanks.

I’m an excellent driver, excellent driver...Buick Roadmaster.

[Maximus Gradient]

Apparently you haven't been to Oregon.

SME

Slowest.

Motherfuckers.

Ever.

Ha, fair enough! My wife's mother lives in Southern OR so we get our fill a few times a year. For the record though, slow driving =/= bad driving Admittedly I'm a slow driver but I'm also aware and courteous; I just see so many unconscious assholes with the me-first attitude here it kills me.

Those of us in the real world call that "the middle of the night" and we sleep during it.

Ha, that's true and I miss the real world at times. I consider myself fortunate to be able to live relatively close to work; the population of folks who commute from Tracy, Vacaville, or even further are growing larger in number which obviously impacts navigability in unprecedented ways...

I certainly don't want to hijack this thread to try and solve all of Northern CA's problems OP - take some time to visit and get a feel for the area, plan your housing and working situation carefully, and you'll be fine. Like anywhere else it's a great place if you can make it work!

[plugboots]

I miss the Bay Area. We go back pretty often, (work, friends, etc.). They’re pretty similar, but SF is just older, more cosmopolitan, and bigger, so you get or don’t get all that comes with it, (hockey and basketball and 2 baseball teams, cooler historical stuff). When we lived in Berkeley, it was 200 miles to our cabin in Alpine Meadows. It’s 36 miles from my house in Issaquah to Lot 4. Mountain biking is pretty similar really. Maybe more nearby accessible single track here in Seattle? We definitely used the ocean a ton more in the Bay Area. Ran on the beach, took the dog to “the bulb”, went fly fishing for surf perch and stripers. Lots of my friends surfed.
Just deal with getting the smallest home you can get away with that’s close to work/public transportation and enjoy.

[Long duc dong]

Whatever you read about cost of living difference is underselling it. While my house has appreciated in my time in Seattle, it would be close to $3M for a comparable house in the Bay. Unless my salary was at least 2x more, no way I could afford it and have the same lifestyle.

Make sure you REALLY take this into account. If you are going to be in the peninsula/silicon valley area, the prices are ridiculous for what you get. I would advise you to do some research on Trulia, or one of those sites, and see what a single family home goes for in Menlo Park or Palo Alto. There are less expensive communities, but anywhere up there is pretty much off it's rocker. Menlo Park is generally considered to be around 1500 per square foot. You really get nothing for what you pay.

I live in Newport Beach. I own a 2300 square foot home on an 8800 square foot lot in the Dover Shores neighborhood. I have no view. It was taken down to the studs in 2010, and it is nice, wood floors, marble island, Viking Pro eight burner stove, things I probably would not have put in myself, but I'm glad I have. The house has a pool. It is nice, and I feel lucky to own it, but it is altogether unremarkable. In many suburbs my home would be 400k. I could probably sell it right now for around 800 per square foot. Menlo Park is almost double that. One of my buddies from up there told me I could probably get 1600 a square foot in Menlo Park when he saw my house, which is just beyond ridiculous. Like I said, I love my home and I'm happy to have it, but I think Newport Beach is ridiculous, to hear that Menlo Park is double the neighborhood I'm in (which is middle of the road for Newport Beach, granted) is just nuts. I really like the it up there, but I would have to get an insane opportunity to go up there. Paying 3 million for a 2000 square foot home is ridiculous. There are other areas on the peninsula which are somewhat less expensive, but just about anywhere is insane. I drive to Mammoht 2-3 times a month in the winter, which wears on me. I probably average 30 hours a month of driving to and from Mammoth in the winter. The bay is closer to Tahoe than Newport is to Mammoth, and I have always thought it would be nice to be able to have my weekend trips be 4 hours, depending on traffic, rather than close to 6 from Newport (to Mammoth) if there is no traffic. But I don't think I could stomach the cost of living. It just would not be worth it. There are other reasons I would not move there, I really don't think I will ever leave Newport even if the cost of living was similar, but things up there are just out of wack.

When housing in Newport Beach looks like a bargain you know things are fucked up. Also, if you are not getting much ski time now, it will be harder in the bay. When you go for weekends you have to plan a bit more.

Just make sure you do a very thorough analysis of what housing prices are like up there. Make sure you know what you are getting into. Also look at what rents are if you are going to rent. I have an older cousin who lives in Menlo Park. He is a Pathologist and his wife works in tech, so they make good money. They also are in their early 50's and bought around 2000, so they got in before the market really exploded. They have a rental property they own in Menlo Park, an 1800 foot single family home, that I believe they rent out for 6800 a month. I'm not positive on that, but I think that is what they get. Obviously there are less expensive parts of silicon valley, and less expensive parts of the bay, but if you are going to work in silicon valley you will either have a horrible commute or you will have to really spend. It might end up being both anyway.

Back when I was living in Tahoe right after college I got a letter from New York Life after I had passed my first actuary exam. One of the things they lauded themselves on was that they were in the top 5% of initial salary offerings for entry level actuaries. That is nice and all, but being that they are in New York they HAVE to offer good salaries. Whatever they would pay in New York does not go nearly as far as it would in, say, Indianapolis. Just be aware of the kind of money you have to make to live reasonably in the bay. It might well be that even though your salary might be higher in the bay it would not go nearly as far as what you are making in Seattle. At that point it comes down to whether you want to live there or not independent of your job.

I know lots of people who are leaving the bay. In many cases they are couples with a combined income in the multiples of six figures.

Like I said, I love many things about it up there. I just cannot see moving up there and paying those kind of prices. Like I said before, anywhere that makes Newport Beach look like a bargain is off it's rocker.

[soul_skier]

I live in SF and can't imagine being anywhere else. Surfing and skiing are what makes me happy so its either the bay area or Santiago Chile. The drives to Tahoe can be absurd but if you get on the head up Thurs night and work remote Friday plan traffic can be minimized. Its crowded, expensive, and with the exception of surfing you have to drive a ways to get to fun, but it beats anywhere else I've lived or visited.