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  1. #101
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    Just one more to add to Foggy's query above. The Loveland trail map clearly delineates the permanent USFS closure of the Seven Sisters differently from the rest of the boundary
    https://skiloveland.com/wp-content/u...il-Map-Web.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    It doesn't at all. If that were the case, the entire San Juan Mountains would be closed to the public. Mountain operations are not responsible for terrain outside of their borders. Nor should they be.
    I actually think this is broadly true with more context - my understanding is that the Bear Creek boundaries along See Forever are between the ski area and USFS land. In general it's fair game to enter, with the understanding that Telski is no longer responsible for your safety (but they can impose their own non-criminal penalties as the permit holder). In the Tempter area it's unique because the Forest Service itself acknowledges some of the disputed property, and violating federal closures can become a Colorado Skier Safety Act issue for USFS or San Miguel County to handle.

    But to say those ropes wouldn't be there if it weren't for the Chapman claims, etc. seems like a stretch.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    It doesn't at all. If that were the case, the entire San Juan Mountains would be closed to the public. Mountain operations are not responsible for terrain outside of their borders. Nor should they be.
    I do believe the question was what level of responsibility does one bear when they knowingly violate a closure into a known avalanche area, trigger an avalanche and someone who wasn't a part of their decision making group is sadly killed.

    I could be wrong.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Just one more to add to Foggy's query above. The Loveland trail map clearly delineates the permanent USFS closure of the Seven Sisters differently from the rest of the boundary
    https://skiloveland.com/wp-content/u...il-Map-Web.jpg
    What about "wildlife" closures?

    https://assets.vailresorts.com/-/med...sin.ashx?la=en

  5. #105
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by phishstx View Post

    that slope looks like a Deathtrap>local right of passage??? Poached regularly???? from what I learned from experts> that would be a slope to avoid

    Look at where the slide broke> right where the sun crusts up and wind loads pile up too , the underlayers there would be suspect at best on a year like this.

    the terrain feeds you into a classic trap..no way out in that pictures angle

    I never seen it in person...locals , chime is and voice their opinion!
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  6. #106
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    You are an idiot. Ok, I chimed in.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    You are an idiot. Ok, I chimed in.

    xd>> exactly how is that Not a Terrain Trap, though??? That is a Forested slope ; where there are no trees- those are slide zones


    if the trees are skiable off to lookers Left >and don't runout to another trap ;then I'll retract my statement
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  8. #108
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    That whole Bear Creek area is full of death traps.

  9. #109
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    From a few blocks down Pine street from the trail's exit, here to agree that Bear Creek is one gigantic death trap. And a heckuva place to ski.

    Also, what's the story with the opulent, palatial looking Tempter's place? Dang.

    Answered my own question.
    https://www.tellurideskiresort.com/t...tempter-house/

    Still, dang. Chute looks good.
    Last edited by Sky_Shoe; 03-29-2019 at 08:06 PM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky_Shoe View Post
    From a few blocks down Pine street from the trail's exit, here to agree that Bear Creek is one gigantic death trap. And a heckuva place to ski.

    Also, what's the story with the opulent, palatial looking Tempter's place? Dang.

    Answered my own question.
    https://www.tellurideskiresort.com/t...tempter-house/

    Still, dang. Chute looks good.
    Right On ; clearly riders like that area from the input>keep those avalanche skills Honed and enjoy
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  11. #111
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    Bear Creek-Telluride

    Quote Originally Posted by baron View Post
    a Rider took out someone at Snowbird the same way a few years back.. though she was traversing on Baldy Bird side, and they or he or she(I don't remember) released a slide above her ….I'd be interested to see what happened legally that time.. hint hint internet experts

    that was a real heavy wind load day ,in a year with a bad ice base layer..very suspect conditions on wind loaded slopes that day,I remember
    Totally different scenario there though. All parties were skiing in bounds in open terrain. Heather was above the rocky choke at the bottom of Feel the Glory, in the middle of the run, walking up up hill to retrieve a ski. The boarder who triggered the slide came off the the high traverse and then continued across the the top of Feel the Glory in a descending traverse a few hundred feet above her. They could have seen eachother in better visibility but it was kinda socked in up high that morning. It had cleared significantly by the time she was found an hour later.

    No legal action was taken, or liability assigned to any parties involved, including Snowbird. The boarder suffered some significant mental health issues as a result.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by baron View Post
    Right On ; clearly riders like that area from the input>keep those avalanche skills Honed and enjoy
    I don’t think anyone is arguing that chute is safe. But it does have one advantage of going all the way down without cliffing out as would happen if you tried to ski down in the trees next to it.

    People have died skiing/boarding that chute before, and they’ve gone off the cliffs, too. It’s a dangerous place. That might be part of the appeal to some riders. Look on YouTube and you’ll find videos bragging about runs down the “suicide” chutes in Bear Creek.

    The story isn’t over yet. The Sheriff is still investigating and it will take some time until we find out what he intends to do, but he’s made threats in the recent past of charging poachers who trigger avalanches with “reckless endangerment”. Who knows, it might even be more severe than that.

    One thing that might help would be a sign at the trailhead warning uphill travelers that they are entering potential avalanche terrain. Does anyone know if such a sign exists?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    The skier's exit is a move left after the tube and before the cliffs/gulley. The victim was below that area. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hE9O7oDpXQ
    so at 1:50 is that the Big Tree mentioned in the accident write up?
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyk View Post
    One thing that might help would be a sign at the trailhead warning uphill travelers that they are entering potential avalanche terrain. Does anyone know if such a sign exists?
    There was certainly such a sign in place last week.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky_Shoe View Post
    There was certainly such a sign in place last week.
    Good to know. I’ve never seen anything in the videos other than that big wooden sign thanking the people who supported the trail.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    No, a permanent closure and they ducked the rope.
    what do you mean by permanent closure? isn't it forest service land that could (albeit inconveniently) accessed from the access gate. i know they're always not allowed to duck the rope but when i think of 'permanent closure' I typically think of an inbounds area (like the cirque at kirkwood or several areas on the map at Telluride)) which you are not allowed to access by any means, or private land. This is neither, unless I'm missing something.
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    what do you mean by permanent closure? isn't it forest service land that could (albeit inconveniently) accessed from the access gate. i know they're always not allowed to duck the rope but when i think of 'permanent closure' I typically think of an inbounds area (like the cirque at kirkwood or several areas on the map at Telluride)) which you are not allowed to access by any means, or private land. This is neither, unless I'm missing something.
    There is a lot of talk of it being a "permanent closure". The USFS does such things on places like the Seven Sisters outside of Loveland. I haven't seen any documentation that this area is in fact a permanent closure, though certianly the boundary is closed. Closed boundary and closed area are different. Telluride wouldn't have rights to issue such a closure since it's outside their special use permit area.

    If anyone has evidence that USFS issued a closure on this land -- or if is in fact private land (pulling up the GIS file of the USFS land shows thats totally possible) -- it'd be useful to the conversation. Additionally -- does anyone know a place where such closures are listed/described?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    so at 1:50 is that the Big Tree mentioned in the accident write up?
    That would be my guess. Never been there, but that video sure shows the ease of entry and the big fun of that run. Permanently closing is going to take more than that rope up top.
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    so at 1:50 is that the Big Tree mentioned in the accident write up?
    Big Tree is at 1:05.
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  20. #120
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    stoopid dyslexia thats what i meant
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  21. #121
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    maybe not in Colorado???

    but more than 1 ,of the Utah resorts have some nasty terrain trap type area tha tis "permanently closed"

    they are marked with Pink overlay on the trail map
    ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz

  22. #122
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    Being told that you are not allowed to access “your public lands” never goes over well in Telluride. The town is literally bordered on all sides by national forest. And populated by outdoor enthusiasts.


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    Last edited by DropCliffsNotBombs; 04-10-2019 at 10:17 AM.
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  23. #123
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    ^same here in Tahoe (at least the south shore). obviously not the same risk factor but i am always perplexed whenever I visit somewhere and something can't be skied because of access/property issues.
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