My kid says she was sexually harassed at school.....

[MontuckyFried]

It's the simplest and quickest solution.

I dropped a pencil down Lisa Johnson's cleavage in HS. She pulled it out and stabbed me in the hand. Lesson learned.

What? You mean you weren't like "I'll see you in court, Lisa!" as you ran off crying? Hmm. Seems that school admins are out of touch with reality and how easily and swiftly things can be dealt with. I'm not suggesting we let kids go feral like some Lord of the Flies situation. I just hate how over the years we've somehow made kids afraid of dealing with these situations directly like we all used to.

Now imagine what would be harder for Lisa Johnson to do? Stab you in the hand with your pencil, never to have you mess with her again, OR today's standard of fretting over it until they tell a parent, a teacher, a counselor, an administrator, up the chain, until they take (or not take) any action against you, the pencil bomber. For which it then goes up the ladder to office meetings, counseling, court hearings, so on and forth. That would suck for all involved. Instead, Lisa took a great course of action. You walked away with a valuable lesson learned. She walked away with her dignity and some legit female empowerment. Lol.

[Meathelmet]

Watching these threads develop is like watching a pow day turn into crud, then crud turn into moguls.

Sig worthy...and true.

[Buster Highmen]

Watching these threads develop is like watching a pow day turn into crud, then crud turn into moguls.

It's like watching rain on snow as we focus on people and not ideas.

[mtngirl79]

What? You mean you weren't like "I'll see you in court, Lisa!" as you ran off crying? Hmm. Seems that school admins are out of touch with reality and how easily and swiftly things can be dealt with. I'm not suggesting we let kids go feral like some Lord of the Flies situation. I just hate how over the years we've somehow made kids afraid of dealing with these situations directly like we all used to.

Now imagine what would be harder for Lisa Johnson to do? Stab you in the hand with your pencil, never to have you mess with her again, OR today's standard of fretting over it until they tell a parent, a teacher, a counselor, an administrator, up the chain, until they take (or not take) any action against you, the pencil bomber. For which it then goes up the ladder to office meetings, counseling, court hearings, so on and forth. That would suck for all involved. Instead, Lisa took a great course of action. You walked away with a valuable lesson learned. She walked away with her dignity and some legit female empowerment. Lol.

You are remembering wrong. Not all Lisa Johnsons are capable of stabbing the Timberridges with pencils and not all Timberridges go away so easily.

I'm certainly not opposed to swift kick in the nuts but it's not the answer.

The answer is proper parenting, fathers setting good examples, and schools having strong policies in place.

[summit]

What? You mean you weren't like "I'll see you in court, Lisa!" as you ran off crying? Hmm. Seems that school admins are out of touch with reality and how easily and swiftly things can be dealt with. I'm not suggesting we let kids go feral like some Lord of the Flies situation. I just hate how over the years we've somehow made kids afraid of dealing with these situations directly like we all used to.

Now imagine what would be harder for Lisa Johnson to do? Stab you in the hand with your pencil, never to have you mess with her again, OR today's standard of fretting over it until they tell a parent, a teacher, a counselor, an administrator, up the chain, until they take (or not take) any action against you, the pencil bomber. For which it then goes up the ladder to office meetings, counseling, court hearings, so on and forth. That would suck for all involved. Instead, Lisa took a great course of action. You walked away with a valuable lesson learned. She walked away with her dignity and some legit female empowerment. Lol.

I like it and it is great when it works out like that... we have one reasonable outcome:

1. "You walked away with a valuable lesson learned. She walked away with her dignity and some legit female empowerment. Lol."

But what about:

2. Lisa unintentionally severs an artery and a nerve and the police/ambulance/surgery lawsuits, expulsion, etc...
3. It isn't Timberridge, but someone who adrenaline dumps when stabs, sees red, then shoves the pen through Lisa's eye, blindness, police, life long trauma.

I just don't trust people to be reasonable with violence, specifically, there are too many who are not reasonable. Don't construe that as me saying reasonable self defense should be punished as publicly schools typically do (because they view all physical violence as unjustifiable). But it's too easy for things to go wrong and people don't react today as perhaps we imagine the nostalgic norms of the past: fair fights, justified slaps/ball kicks/(pencil stabs?) followed by a retreating male. Nostalgia is made of stores chose to be remembered and passed on. Bad memories are suppressed, including when nobody fought back when justified.

[skaredshtles]

What? You mean you weren't like "I'll see you in court, Lisa!" as you ran off crying? Hmm. Seems that school admins are out of touch with reality and how easily and swiftly things can be dealt with. I'm not suggesting we let kids go feral like some Lord of the Flies situation. I just hate how over the years we've somehow made kids afraid of dealing with these situations directly like we all used to.

You do realize that there were probably MILLIONS of situations in the "good ol' days" where the person being bullied did not "deal with the situation directly" - and simply took it? To imply that all bullying was taken care of in the old days by dropping the gloves is not historic reality, IMO.

You're looking at the past through VERY rose-colored glasses.

[Meadow Skipper]

It's like watching rain on snow as we focus on people and not ideas.

And that’s how things go to shit.

[MontuckyFried]

You do realize that there were probably MILLIONS of situations in the "good ol' days" where the person being bullied did not "deal with the situation directly" - and simply took it? To imply that all bullying was taken care of in the old days by dropping the gloves is not historic reality, IMO.

You're looking at the past through VERY rose-colored glasses.

Not really. I'm drawing on my OWN life experiences getting it pretty bad in middle school. I already talked about it earlier in this thread. I was one of a small handful of white kids in an inner city school. Was the victim for a long time until I took matters into my own hands. Solved the problem for good.

[ill-advised strategy]

And that’s how things go to shit.

I’m all about the strategies.

And the tactics.

[doebedoe]

Not really. I'm drawing on my OWN life experiences getting it pretty bad in middle school. I already talked about it earlier in this thread. I was one of a small handful of white kids in an inner city school. Was the victim for a long time until I took matters into my own hands. Solved the problem for good.

That's all fine and good.

But people seem to think that violence as a response to sexual harassement or bullying is preventative. It's not. It's an intervention into a bad situation. It doesn't stop the system (behaviors, expectations, policies) that produces people who think its okay to grab another persons ass.

We ought to be figuring out what we can do to prevent these situations occuring in the first place. If folks can't come up with anything more than vigilante justice because that's what our own pasts taught us, that's a failure of society to protect our kids and create good humans.

[skaredshtles]

Not really. I'm drawing on my OWN life experiences getting it pretty bad in middle school. I already talked about it earlier in this thread. I was one of a small handful of white kids in an inner city school. Was the victim for a long time until I took matters into my own hands. Solved the problem for good.

You're just reinforcing my point.

[MontuckyFried]

I like it and it is great when it works out like that... we have one reasonable outcome:

1. "You walked away with a valuable lesson learned. She walked away with her dignity and some legit female empowerment. Lol."

But what about:

2. Lisa unintentionally severs an artery and a nerve and the police/ambulance/surgery lawsuits, expulsion, etc...
3. It isn't Timberridge, but someone who adrenaline dumps when stabs, sees red, then shoves the pen through Lisa's eye, blindness, police, life long trauma.

I just don't trust people to be reasonable with violence, specifically, there are too many who are not reasonable. Don't construe that as me saying reasonable self defense should be punished as publicly schools typically do (because they view all physical violence as unjustifiable). But it's too easy for things to go wrong and people don't react today as perhaps we imagine the nostalgic norms of the past: fair fights, justified slaps/ball kicks/(pencil stabs?) followed by a retreating male. Nostalgia is made of stores chose to be remembered and passed on. Bad memories are suppressed, including when nobody fought back when justified.

Huh. Sounds like the harasser's problem. While you make some good points, I liken the 'possibility' of the nut kicking, to a woman 'maybe' packing heat. We WANT would-be attackers to think, "Huh, this chick might be crazy enough to freaking stab me in the eyeball/shoot me/put me in the hospital/kill me." It's that uncertainty that makes a would-be Handsy Hank think twice about trying to honk a boob. Whereas with our CURRENT system, bullies and sexual harassers be like, "It's ok. The school's got my back. This chick ain't gonna do nothing." It's like they KNOW their victims are defenseless. Uncertainties is what keeps people in check.

Mtngirl: As much as we know that the ROOT of the problem needs to be addressed (good fathering, etc. and you are 100% correct in that), it's unfortunately not the current reality many women face. The damage is done. It's too late for good fathering when they're dealing with a scary situation like a creeper in a parking lot. It's up to US to protect ourselves at this point. Just like they say "Fences make good neighbors" and "Guns make a polite society." Those statements are acknowledgement of the realities of dealing with society.

[Buster Highmen]

And for another infinitesimally significant anecdote, as the smallest person in my class until 12th grade, after being bullied, usually in some hidden setting, like the locker room, I used to go up to the perp in line and just stare at them and ask them what they were trying to prove in front of all the other students and sometimes teachers.

That also solved the problem, first on an instance basis for a year and eventually for good.

The point is that standing up for yourself in spirit usually shuts down the bullies.

[TNKen]

This might actually be a proper time to consult Raymond Reddington.

[mtngirl79]

Except statistically, carrying a gun makes you less safe...

[Timberridge]

I like it and it is great when it works out like that... we have one reasonable outcome:

1. "You walked away with a valuable lesson learned. She walked away with her dignity and some legit female empowerment. Lol."

But what about:

2. Lisa unintentionally severs an artery and a nerve and the police/ambulance/surgery lawsuits, expulsion, etc...
3. It isn't Timberridge, but someone who adrenaline dumps when stabs, sees red, then shoves the pen through Lisa's eye, blindness, police, life long trauma.

Would being kicked in the nut sack cause any lasting damage?

Btw. I heard from a classmate that Lisa and her cleavage became a doctor.

It never achieved the same measure of success, but my hand went on to accomplish some things as well. And yes, I'm aware this statement opens me up for some salacious comments.

[TahoeJ]

Watching these threads develop is like watching a pow day turn into crud, then crud turn into moguls.

Post. Of. The. Year.

OP - friend had a similar situation, which eventually led to his daughter turning around and smacking the shit out of the kid. Her ring cut into his face a little. School admins attempted to suspend her under some zero tolerance bullshit, at which point he politely explained that he'd be contacting the local newspaper. Principle back-pedaled faster than an NFL cornerback. Not saying violence is the answer, but sometimes it can be, and your daughter shouldn't be afraid of any repercussions for how she might react to such behavior. Sadly that wouldn't have been true 10 years ago but fortunately times have changed.

[DJSapp]

Skipping the 4 pages of trying to work through the system here and getting back to how this kind of shit may be handled with maximum effectiveness:

1. Teach your daughter that women are strong. Take her to the gym/crossfit/self defense class teach her this.
2. In 7th grade girls are usually as big or bigger than the boys. Use this to her advantage.
3. Tell her to grab the SOB by the throat, slam him into the lockers and give him the loudest dressing down in the history of humankind if it ever happens again. Maybe knee him in the junk as well. Even if she gets the wrong guy, she'll likely get one of his buddies and the message will be sent loud and clear that this is not ok and will not be tolerated.

Schoolyard justice is 1000x more effective than administrative justice. Worst that happens is she gets suspended for 2-3 days for a small fight. Tell her you got her back and will take her skiing if she does this, and any time she sticks up for herself and protecting her body. Then her rep of being the girl that wrecked Johnny-grabass in the hall in front of everyone will protect her better than anything the school can do. Teaching her to avoid the confrontation and to try to work through a system that is rigged against girls and women isn't the answer when there is a more direct solution.

[MontuckyFried]

Except statistically, carrying a gun makes you less safe...

You missed the point. I was talking about uncertain outcomes. About making the attacker second guess messing with her because he's not certain whether or not she (A) is capable of defending herself, and (B) might actually turn that capability into action.

We want the would-be sexual harasser with OP's daughter to second guess messing with her because she might just make him rue the day he decided to grab her butt. She may not. But she might. And that is often enough to keep those sorts of guys at bay. Bullies and sexual harassers feel invincible these days thanks to current school policies. Seems the MORE they try to solve the problem, the worse the problem becomes. That's because they are too stupid to understand the REALITIES of human nature and pubescent little twerps at that.

[iceman]

Watching these threads develop is like watching a pow day turn into crud, then crud turn into moguls.

Sig worthy...and true.

He's a really really good mogul skier though.

[Timberridge]

He's a really really good mogul skier though.

Does he have ID One's?

[mtngirl79]

You missed the point. I was talking about uncertain outcomes. About making the attacker second guess messing with her because he's not certain whether or not she (A) is capable of defending herself, and (B) might actually turn that capability into action.

We want the would-be sexual harasser with OP's daughter to second guess messing with her because she might just make him rue the day he decided to grab her butt. She may not. But she might. And that is often enough to keep those sorts of guys at bay. Bullies and sexual harassers feel invincible these days thanks to current school policies. Seems the MORE they try to solve the problem, the worse the problem becomes. That's because they are too stupid to understand the REALITIES of human nature and pubescent little twerps at that.

I want would be sexual assaulters and harassers to know it's wrong. I do not want to put the responsibility of protecting ones self on children.

The amount of emotional trauma that kids can cause each other can easily justify murder in immature minds.

Violence isnt the solution. It's the problem.

[fatnslow]

Skipping the 4 pages of trying to work through the system here and getting back to how this kind of shit may be handled with maximum effectiveness:

1. Teach your daughter that women are strong. Take her to the gym/crossfit/self defense class teach her this.
2. In 7th grade girls are usually as big or bigger than the boys. Use this to her advantage.
3. Tell her to grab the SOB by the throat, slam him into the lockers and give him the loudest dressing down in the history of humankind if it ever happens again. Maybe knee him in the junk as well. Even if she gets the wrong guy, she'll likely get one of his buddies and the message will be sent loud and clear that this is not ok and will not be tolerated.

Schoolyard justice is 1000x more effective than administrative justice. Worst that happens is she gets suspended for 2-3 days for a small fight. Tell her you got her back and will take her skiing if she does this, and any time she sticks up for herself and protecting her body. Then her rep of being the girl that wrecked Johnny-grabass in the hall in front of everyone will protect her better than anything the school can do. Teaching her to avoid the confrontation and to try to work through a system that is rigged against girls and women isn't the answer when there is a more direct solution.

DJSAPP talks the truth ! I have a daughter and would tell her exactly this. A little bit of public shaming can go a long way, especially for a 7th grader.

[DBdude]

Bullshit.

Not bullshit

It’s refreshing to see the kraken rise up and lash out at a boy she never met and a situation she was not involved in and the see Danno carry her water


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[DBdude]

Shit happens at school

The boy needs to be talked to

A friend recently had her eighth grade son stab a boy in the hand when he was told he should fuck his sister


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