My kid says she was sexually harassed at school.....

[ill-advised strategy]

Does he have ID One's?

I’m a Hart guy.

[Mofro261]

I don't have kids but I do know a fuckton about sexism, gender norms and violence. Does that count?

Nope. You can read all you want about anatomy and surgical procedures, but that won't make you qualified to perform an operation.

[Timberridge]

I’m a Hart guy.

For some reason I don't see them around at the comps as much anymore. Mostly ID One and the occasional Rossi. Used to be lots of Twisters and F17s.

[skaredshtles]

Nope. You can read all you want about anatomy and surgical procedures, but that won't make you qualified to perform an operation.

That may be true... but in my experience, there are a LOT of parents that know fuck-all about parenting.

YMMV.

[fatnslow]

I’m a Hart guy.

have you skied those Attacks you ordered ? I keep looking at the $119 price tag but don't know shit about them.

[XXX-er]

Not disagreeing with his astute observation. Just saying later in life if he wants to set up a bakery in Hoboken for example, this level of protection will come with a cost.

Don't worry He is smart enough to stay trump free on this side of the Canadian border,

but it comes at a cost

he won't get to chose the health care that he can't afford

[AK47bp]

That may be true... but in my experience, there are a LOT of parents that know fuck-all about parenting.

YMMV.

This may be true, however DJ Sapp knows his shit and seems to be good at parenting. Supermoon may know some shit but it’s out of context, void of the powerful emotions and nuisances of being a parent. Not to say Supermoon wouldn’t be a good parent. DJ Sapp’s experiences trump Supermoon’s educated opinions every time.

[Danno]

This may be true, however DJ Sapp knows his shit and seems to be good at parenting. Supermoon may know some shit but it’s out of context, void of the powerful emotions and nuisances of being a parent. Not to say Supermoon wouldn’t be a good parent. DJ Sapp’s experiences trump Supermoon’s educated opinions every time.

experience matters, no doubt. That said, anyone who IS a parent should know that there isn't usually a single answer, a right way and a wrong way. Kids are fucking complicated and raising good kids is fucking hard. And what works for one kid may not work for another.

Which is not to say that there might not be valuable advice from parents in here, or bad advice from non-parents, just that assuming that "parent = good advice" and "non-parent = bad advice" is a mistake.

[Timberridge]

Anyone can be a parent and anyone can give advice, so the intersection of that means nothing.

What is lacking here are real life experiences from people who have had their asses pinched, slapped or fondled and how such advances were dealt with.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> nuisances of being a parent.

You can say that again. Goddam kids...

[DBdude]

You're right about peers, but that doesn't usually include the women they are assaulting. It would be other males in their friend group having to call them out on it. Which is actually a great way to stop harassment, but not really something that's been discussed in this thread.


I don't have kids but I do know a fuckton about sexism, gender norms and violence. Does that count?

Too funny

No - it doesn’t count

13 year old kids are children in semi adult bodies and there is a fuck ton of crazy going through their heads

Again inappropriate touching is not tolerated and the parent is not interested in dealing

That means the school. If the situation was reversed and a girl was grabbing my boy’s ass, I would not want him to hit the girl


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[DJSapp]

You're right about peers, but that doesn't usually include the women they are assaulting. It would be other males in their friend group having to call them out on it. Which is actually a great way to stop harassment, but not really something that's been discussed in this thread.

You ever see how fast a group of 7th grade boys will turn on one of their own and devour them? I have. 'Hey Johnny just got his nuts smashed because he grabbed that girl's butt!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!' 'Johnny can't get a girlfriend so he has to grab girls in the hall, what a loser!!!' Meanwhile they're all thinking, ', that isn't ok and I shouldn't do it either. Girls don't like that. All that stuff about respecting girls and women really does matter.' The other boys may not verbally side with her and they definitely won't have a civil discourse on the matter, but they will mock his bad behavior and the outcome. The perp may say bad things about her, but that's an attempt to save face. He won't be able to go home and tell mom and dad the truth of the matter when he's sitting on the couch with a bag of frozen peas because he knows what he did was wrong. He will have to lie to his parents to hide his behavior, and good kids struggle with that. He needs time to process that. That is a shitload more to deal with than another 5 minute talk with Dad.

If there are repeat incidents with him getting called to the carpet in the hallway, then further intervention by parents/teachers/school admin is definitely needed. My guess is one dose of schoolyard justice will be plenty.

I don't have kids but I do know a fuckton about sexism, gender norms and violence. Does that count?

No. Absolutely not because kids are barely above pack animals and our adult rules don't apply to them in their minds until their peers decide these rules matter.

Kids may know the rules and ideas of society as told to them by adults, but have a hard time putting them into action if there isn't an apparent reason to care about these rules. For example: when he was 4, my son had an issue with not wanting to stop play because he needed to poop, so he'd crap himself and hope for the best. As this was going on and on, one day he had some friends over and I heard him fart. I told him for the 100th time to stop his game and go potty. He didn't want to stop so I just thought, fuck it, I'm going to let your friends realize it when you shit yourself. It happened. His friends noticed. They laughed at him. They called him poopypants for a week straight. He cried a couple times. Am I an asshole Dad for letting this play out? Probably.

But you know what? He'll stop his game and use the toilet now and hasn't had an issue since. All of my months of telling him this wasn't ok and policing him was just protecting him from his peers and validating his behavior. He needed his peers to show him his error, even if it was a bit cruel.

[AK47bp]

You can say that again. Goddam kids...

Little fuckin terrorists the lot of them. 🤯

[Supermoon]

Too funny

No - it doesn’t count

I don’t feel like I’m giving anyone parenting advice, just advice on how to handle harassment and abuse, which I do have experience with.

Also, there are some things that non-parents can comment on. For example I’ve had a couple of friends say they weren’t going to vaccinate their babies, and while I’m not a parent I know enough to tel them that’s a stupid fucking idea.

That means the school. If the situation was reversed and a girl was grabbing my boy’s ass, I would not want him to hit the girl

That’s an interesting way to frame that. I like it.

[DJSapp]

My point about who is a parent here is simple. Parents understand this is a fight on all fronts.

Kids do not always respond to the rules and regulation laid down by adults. Kids learn as much or more from their peers, and every parent worth half a shit knows that. You can have all the Father/son talks, assemblies about sexual harassment and consent, and it means fuck all until the kids see their peers react to those rules.

So Supermoon, go ahead and tell a class of 7th graders chapter and verse about the sexual norms that we expect. You'll bore them to death while they're teabagging each other in fortnight on their phones.

[mtngirl79]

Anyone can be a parent and anyone can give advice, so the intersection of that means nothing.

What is lacking here are real life experiences from people who have had their asses pinched, slapped or fondled and how such advances were dealt with.

People who have experienced it are "crazy"

[plugboots]

I have a daughter who will be 18 in about 2 weeks, and she is FIERCE when it comes to sticking up for herself. We all have a voice, teach your kids to USE IT. Violence is rarely a necessity when a good loud scream as soon as she feels an unwanted touch will bring instantly a ton of eyes to the aberrant behavior. Make the toucher feel uncomfortable about the actions and at the same time it alerts all the other kids and presumably the adult in charge that something isn't right RIGHT NOW. If it happens again, yeah a scream and a roundhouse are merited.

Kinda describes my 20 year old daughter.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> For example: when he was 4, my son had an issue with not wanting to stop play because he needed to poop, so he'd crap himself and hope for the best. As this was going on and on, one day he had some friends over and I heard him fart. I told him for the 100th time to stop his game and go potty. He didn't want to stop so I just thought, fuck it, I'm going to let your friends realize it when you shit yourself. It happened. His friends noticed. They laughed at him. They called him poopypants for a week straight. He cried a couple times. Am I an asshole Dad for letting this play out? Probably.

But you know what? He'll stop his game and use the toilet now and hasn't had an issue since. All of my months of telling him this wasn't ok and policing him was just protecting him from his peers and validating his behavior. He needed his peers to show him his error, even if it was a bit cruel.

Similar story - except it was showering. Eventually... a peer called him out on this. Don't know when... don't know how... but he started showering regularly. My harping was probably only postponing the inevitable call-out.

[The AD]

Violence is rarely a necessity when a good loud scream as soon as she feels an unwanted touch will bring instantly a ton of eyes to the aberrant behavior. Make the toucher feel uncomfortable about the actions and at the same time it alerts all the other kids and presumably the adult in charge that something isn't right RIGHT NOW.

Agreed. I feel like a nice loud dressing down will likely do more to dissuade this kid than kicking him in the nuts will.

[Supermoon]

So Supermoon, go ahead and tell a class of 7th graders chapter and verse about the sexual norms that we expect. You'll bore them to death while they're teabagging each other in fortnight on their phones.

Did I ever say that? Pretty sure all I’ve said is that the girls shouldn’t be in charge of confronting their attackers whether in the hallway or the principals office.

[TahoeJ]

I'm with DJSapp on this one - having kids really gives you a different perspective. However, you can still have good advice not being a parent. Girls shouldn't *have* to confront their attackers but it's important to give them the greenlight to do so if they want.

I have two daughters and a son. Oldest daughter is 10. Frankly, I'm far less concerned about groping attempts from boys than dealing with the fucking cliquey girl drama. Crazy how early that shit starts.

FWIW, I do think there's a *huge* difference between this happening in 7th grade vs. high school.

[MontuckyFried]

Has Sexual Harassment Panda visited OP's daughter's school yet to teach the kids about inappropriate behavior yet?

[mtngirl79]

Mustonen's daughter asked for help.

For what ever reason she didnt feel comfortable dealing with this herself or her attempts failed.

I am all for teaching children to stand up for themselves but they are still children and adults sometimes need to step in.

You guys are comparing bodily hygiene issues to assault.

Again. There is no way a jr high kid this day and age doesnt fully understand that it's not ok to grab a girls ass in the hall way.

You cannot rely on peers to police each other. Sure, some jr high boys might stick up for some girls, but probably not all girls.

Most jr high kids are desperately insecure and desperate to fit in.

That's where the teach them to defend themselves chants fall short, also.

Weaker kids that cannot defend themselves are more likely to be targets and also less likely to be defended by other kids.

Let them sort it out works for the strong, but it destroys the weak...

[Mustonen]

Wow. If this started as fresh pow --> crud --> bumps... I'm not sure where we are now, but it probably needs a groomer or a good storm.

So, quick update; I might go through and respond to points raised and trot out a few of my own later. Or maybe not.

I called the vice principal first thing this morning; the situation was already on his radar. We set up our morning meeting with me and the boy's dad. The vice principal was going to review the video in the meantime. He called back a little while later to tell me there was no video; so given that, how did I want to proceed? I explained that this happened multiple times, and that there were multiple girls who reported it, and that my daughter saw this boy do it to somebody else.... so while the video would be nice, it didn't really change the situation much. It should effectively rise above hearsay or circumstantial evidence. He didn't challenge that; he said he was going to interview my daughter and the boy and the other girls and call me later in the day, but that they weren't ready for a meeting that morning.

Fast forward a few hours --> they were able to find the video. He said it was pretty clear: the boy smacked my daughter on the ass on his way past her. He'd already watched the tapes with the boy's parents. The boy would serve an in-school suspension. Etc. I haven't reviewed the handbook yet to see if I agree with the course this was put on, but I will tonight. I challenged him to address it with the student body comprehensively, both underlining a zero tolerance policy and encouraging victims to speak up. If it happened once it's probably happening outside of that; it should be more than just a topic in health class. He didn't commit to anything, so I'll follow up again in a couple days and push for that.

I also talked to the dad. He apologized for doubting my daughter and told me he appreciated the way it was handled. He said that his kid would have a very strict punishment. He didn't really know what else to say, and I can't blame him. I don't know what the script is for this kind of thing. I think that's one of our really huge problems; it leads to the silly bullshit around corporal punishment and crucifying local reputations and intratown angst and heartache. We don't know what to say or feel but we know that something is called for so we do....something.

My ex wife isn't satisfied and wants to raise a little more hell. I've done enough to carve out my own path on this one that I'm not all that worried about it; anything she does will be separated from me and, more importantly, my kids. I've made my points with her on how to handle this and while she yelled and ridiculed me for "mansplaining" I'm pretty sure I got through. (Things like to have a very clear idea of what you want to accomplish and why before making a phone call to raise hell with the principal or the boy's mom).

My daughter seems to be in a good place with it. She isn't afraid to defend herself. She isn't a wallflower. I don't think a karate class does a lot, here; and nothing against self defense, I think that's important. She needs to address it within her peer group, and she did. She reported it, and she wasn't shy about it. Other girls have come forward since. Prescribing a nut kick as a solution seems...off. We don't accept these things within society, because these things aren't acceptable. It's not a matter of victims letting themselves be victims and/or choosing to no longer be a victim.

Good times....

[evdog]

Back in the day, maybe 2nd or 3rd grade, I was a little shit and thought it was hilarious to pinch or smack girls on the butt. Until one of them turned around one day and swung her hand bag or backpack at my face. A bloody nose and black eye was all the instant feedback needed to never do that again.